Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Madness the 10th: Melk Man Edition

[Powdered Toast Man]

Lets not forget Dickey is literally missing the UCL in his right elbow and throws a knuckleball.

 

[cyris]

wow we are trading travis d'arnaud now.

Unlikely. Its clear that there have been talks between the Jays and Mets but moving TDA is very unlikely.

 

[cyris]

Lets not forget Dickey is literally missing the UCL in his right elbow and throws a knuckleball.

He is still 38. At that age other things can break down beside his arm.

 

[bigred50]

Ok so Reiley for Lidstrom or Thomas after they won their awards in 2011.

Right. And if the Leafs actually had a decent squad on paper... you wouldn't trade Reilly for Lidstrom to put you over the top? You bet you would.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

He is still 38. At that age other things can break down beside his arm.

I hear lots of pitchers are retiring because of their baby toes.

 

[cyris]

Right. And if the Leafs actually had a decent squad on paper... you wouldn't trade Reilly for Lidstrom to put you over the top? You bet you would.

The best prospect in the world at his position (which Rieley isnt) for 2-3 years of a aging star?

Nope wouldn't do it.

 

[Jozay]

Right. And if the Leafs actually had a decent squad on paper... you wouldn't trade Reilly for Lidstrom to put you over the top? You bet you would.

Lidstrom at his current age? Yeah, no thanks.

 

[cyris]

I hear lots of pitchers are retiring because of their baby toes.

Back, knees.........
Stuff like that gets better with age right?

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Unlikely. Its clear that there have been talks between the Jays and Mets but moving TDA is very unlikely.

Okay then that's good

 

[Woodman19]

Right. And if the Leafs actually had a decent squad on paper... you wouldn't trade Reilly for Lidstrom to put you over the top? You bet you would.

At some point you need to value long term upside over now.

Would you trade a 18 year old Steve Yzerman for a 2nd line winger if it wins you the cup? Of course you wouldn't Yzerman is a generational talent that you build around. I am not saying that is D'Arnaud, simply that you have to weigh future upside vs now otherwise a middle relief pitcher is always worth more then any prospect simply because he is contributing in the majors now.

 

[Felstead]

See, if this came true, fine with dealings D'Arnaud

Its funny, I said this to a co worker the other day and said he would be the pitcher I'd trade D'arnaud for. Kersh/Verlander aswell.. Other than that.. Thats its!

 

[King Mapes]

Ok so Reiley for Lidstrom or Thomas after they won their awards in 2011.

It would be like dealing Reilly for Thomas after his first Vezina when we already had a great team other than in nets.

Honestly I'm against dealing D'Arnaud just so you know, I'm just putting it so a casual fan can understand it better.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Can any of you D'Arnaud fans tell me something about him aside from the fact Twitter told you he was good?

 

[cyris]

It would be like dealing Reilly for Thomas after his first Vezina when we already had a great team other than in nets.

Honestly I'm against dealing D'Arnaud just so you know, I'm just putting it so a casual fan can understand it better.

That is the basic idea but TDA is a better prospect than Reiley.

 

[gladis]

Right. And if the Leafs actually had a decent squad on paper... you wouldn't trade Reilly for Lidstrom to put you over the top? You bet you would.

Don't think you can compare a Hall of Famer like Lidstrom to Dickey

 

[King Mapes]

At some point you need to value long term upside over now.

Would you trade a 18 year old Steve Yzerman for a 2nd line winger if it wins you the cup? Of course you wouldn't Yzerman is a generational talent that you build around. I am not saying that is D'Arnaud, simply that you have to weigh future upside vs now otherwise a middle relief pitcher is always worth more then any prospect simply because he is contributing in the majors now.

But Dickey is a top tier pitcher not a 2nd liner and you say Yzerman. Okay what about Daigle? Steffan? My point is, you can't use hindsight

 

[Nasty Nazem]

Davis' BB% rose from 7% to 12% after May, and his K% dropped from 29% to 25% in that same time, both of those rates are good enough if you believe in Davis' power.

The platoon splits are an issue, but it is important to note that Ike Davis absolutely raked in the second half last season, to the tune of an .880 OPS. The potential is there for him to be a big bat, even with his struggles against LHP.

Interesting. Did he make any sort of adjustment to his swing or anything? He was struggling a lot early on so maybe its regression to the mean but I dunno.

It's still better than Shea Stadium if I'm not mistaken. FTR, I actually think Ike Davis is a bit underrated because of his unsustainably low BABIP, consider the following data from rotographs:[/QUOTE]

Hmm. Looking at his splits last season, they are huge. Hit .253/.345/.523/.868 last year against righties with a .271 BABIP, closer to what you would expect. Despite the low BA, he still had a solid OBP and power against righties but was abysmal against lefties. Hit .174/.225/.335/.560 against lefties with a .193 BABIP which is kinda what killed his BABIP last season. I don't think its all luck that he struggled, he is really bad against lefties but is a bit better over his career with a .217/.281/.361/.643 with .277 BABIP against lefties so maybe that will normalize. I don't think I would expect him to be a great hitter unless he improves against lefties a lot but should still be an above average hitter. Increase LD% and power is a good sign though.

 

[cyris]

Can any of you D'Arnaud fans tell me something about him aside from the fact Twitter told you he was good?

Can you?

 

[Felstead]

Can any of you D'Arnaud fans tell me something about him aside from the fact Twitter told you he was good?

Seriously?

Go to a MLB prospect site. You wont have to scroll through the ample amounts of pages of prospects. His name should be the first page. That will tell you what you need to know.

Unless this did...

 

[King Mapes]

Don't think you can compare a Hall of Famer like Lidstrom to Dickey

He brought Lidstroms name up though.

 

[Michael Gary Scott]

If d'Arnaud could be going for Dickey+... What would the + be? What do the ****ing New York Mets have that could help us? If TDA goes there is really no one to replace him. JPA isn't good enough to be a franchise catcher. TDA is. What do the Mets have to make up for that? **** really hope Travis stays put.

Zack Wheeler, Ike Davis, Jon Niese... Only way it trade TDA is if Wheeler is involved

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Can you?

Yup. I can tell you he tore up the most hitter friendly minor league in the world while posting a completely unsustainable BABIP. Not to mention he's the top catching prospect compared to a bunch of crap since the others who are near his talent level have already graduated.

 

[cyris]

Can any of you D'Arnaud fans tell me something about him aside from the fact Twitter told you he was good?

And do you mean stuff like him putting up better numbers in the minors than last years mvp Buster Posey did at the same age?

 

[Nasty Nazem]

Zack Wheeler, Ike Davis, Jon Niese... Only way it trade TDA is if Wheeler is involved

Matt Harvey is better. That's who I would want for TDA, straight up.

 

[showtime8]

But Dickey is a top tier pitcher not a 2nd liner and you say Yzerman. Okay what about Daigle? Steffan? My point is, you can't use hindsight

But I can see that Dickey is 38 years old and if you are giving away your best prospect for a chance that he makes you a World Series contender.

If I'm trading D'Arnaud, its going to be for someone that has more years available than someone who is likely signing his last contract for 2 years.