Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Madness the 10th: Melk Man Edition

[GoHardSports]

I'm sure everyone would prefer that. The thing is you left out the other option, you know, the one where we never compete.

I'm sure we'll compete. The difference between Dickey and Happ doesnt take us from non-contenders to contenders. We wouldn't even be talking about this trade if we weren't sure we'd be able to compete.

 

[Ohio Jones]

I would rather the Jays become a team that competes for years than goes all in on a 1 or 2 year shot.

Agreed... But so does Anthopolous. The cupboard is far from bare in terms of overall prospect depth of try do the deal as discussed. They'll have assets coming up that they can move as necessary to address gaps, just like they did this year. Including, if things to even tolerably well, a few surplus arms that - as we can see - fetch good prices in return.

But it is important to recognize the golden opportunity presented to the Jays over the next three years. Mid you have the wherewithal, you have to go for it while continuing the smart drafting, developing and trading that allowed you to accumulate the farm depth in the first place. This will not be a push followed by another 6 or 7 years of rebuild, because they have the infrastructure in place to maintain a healthy farm.

 

[King Mapes]

I would rather the Jays become a team that competes for years than goes all in on a 1 or 2 year shot.

But we still have a great prospect pool, especially pitching. We've waited along time for this opportunity. Remember Wells was our next rising star? Or Rios? Or Snider? Our track record with our hitters isn't great. I'm not sure if Gose will ever have the bat. Speed and defence, sure, but I won't lose sleep dealing him

 

[cyris]

I guess I and most others in this thread will have to agree to disagree on Gose.

To be honest if there is no other way to do the dickey trade I would involve Gose. I would just try to explore every other option first. Like Rasmus ++ instead of Gose.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

I'm sure we'll compete. The difference between Dickey and Happ doesnt take us from non-contenders to contenders. We wouldn't even be talking about this trade if we weren't sure we'd be able to compete.

Trading a decent catcher and a good prospect for the reigning Cy Young award winner doesn't sound like something a contending team would jump on?

 

[Nasty Nazem]

People need to stop bringing up Dickey's age, really. Yeah, he's 38 but with his pitching style, his "arm" is probably several years younger.

Even so, it's still relevant. How long do you think he can be a frontline starter for? His arm might be hold up in his 40's but is he going to maintain that top level performance that late in his career? Probably not. For the next two years or so, he should probably still be good even if it isn't at CY Young caliber performance but like any player, he will eventually regress and his age makes it seem likely that will come quick.

 

[cyris]

I don't usually start on those until we get into spring training. Especially this year when we'll be waiting on multiple players to get pics in the Blue Jays jersey.

Gonna suck a little bit this year though because my easy source for Jays pics, Daylife, has decided to stop hosting their own picture archive for view online.

I know you wont do it for a long while just getting my early request in.

And sucks about your image source, if there is any way I could help i would/will but its something i know nothing about. Using google images is is about the limit of my knowledge/ability to find images.

 

[GoHardSports]

Trading a decent catcher and a good prospect for the reigning Cy Young award winner doesn't sound like something a contending team would jump on?

Yes it is. I'm just pointing out that not acquiring Dickey doesnt take us out of the talk of contending. We can still contend without him. If we were moving Gose and Arencibia (10 years of control for cheap) I'd rather go for someone younger and cheaper as well, or at least for a better gurantee.

Although again, i'd trade for Dickey without including D'Arnaud, Gose, Sanchez, or Syndergaard.

 

[King Mapes]

I guess I and most others in this thread will have to agree to disagree on Gose.

To be honest if there is no other way to do the dickey trade I would involve Gose. I would just try to explore every other option first. Like Rasmus ++ instead of Gose.

Rasmus ++ over Gose?

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

People need to understand that trading future for present is about trading risk for a different kind of risk. It's still risk. 5 years of Gose potentially being a useless hitter isn't all that appealing.

 

[cyris]

Agreed... But so does Anthopolous. The cupboard is far from bare in terms of overall prospect depth of try do the deal as discussed. They'll have assets coming up that they can move as necessary to address gaps, just like they did this year. Including, if things to even tolerably well, a few surplus arms that - as we can see - fetch good prices in return.

But it is important to recognize the golden opportunity presented to the Jays over the next three years. Mid you have the wherewithal, you have to go for it while continuing the smart drafting, developing and trading that allowed you to accumulate the farm depth in the first place. This will not be a push followed by another 6 or 7 years of rebuild, because they have the infrastructure in place to maintain a healthy farm.

We have a great farm system right now but it is pitching heavy. We are somewhat weak in regards to position players. What I'm trying to say and clearly doing a poor job of is saying i would rather use some of that pitching to improve the team than the prospect position players.

 

[Ohio Jones]

I guess I and most others in this thread will have to agree to disagree on Gose.

To be honest if there is no other way to do the dickey trade I would involve Gose. I would just try to explore every other option first. Like Rasmus ++ instead of Gose.

I think that's actually what most of us are saying. We'd rather not include Gose, but...

 

[p.l.f.]

it cant be gose and d'arnaud
thats absurd

gose and JPA maybe

 

[Raym11]

people against the trade are saying " in 2-3 years we'll be screwed"....



I think if AA makes this trade, it's because he wants the next 2-3 years to be legit contending years and title years. Team hasnt even made the playoffs in so long.

Rely on growth from prospects and possibly be in the same place 2-3 years from now, that the jays have been for decades... OR. Go for it for 2-3 years. Attempt to Win a championship.

I take that risk, this city needs to win something. The whole point of sports is to win the championship and be the best team in the league...

 

[TootooTrain]

I don't usually start on those until we get into spring training. Especially this year when we'll be waiting on multiple players to get pics in the Blue Jays jersey.

Gonna suck a little bit this year though because my easy source for Jays pics, Daylife, has decided to stop hosting their own picture archive for view online.

Have you tried using Photobucket before? Might be useful. I've had the same account for almost 8 years so I don't think they're going away any time soon.

 

[cyris]

Rasmus ++ over Gose?

Why not.
Gose has better range in the outfield and a better arm once he gets the ball.
Gose didn't hit great here but he still got on base more than Rasmus and was much more dangerous when he did get on base.

All Rasmus really has over Gose is Power.

 

[Ohio Jones]

We have a great farm system right now but it is pitching heavy. We are somewhat weak in regards to position players. What I'm trying to say and clearly doing a poor job of is saying i would rather use some of that pitching to improve the team than the prospect position players.

All farms have strengths and weaknesses. A farm doesn't have to fill all of your gaps, it just has to give you the quality assets to let you choose which ones to keep for yourself, and which ones to move for the players you need.

 

[cyris]

People need to understand that trading future for present is about trading risk for a different kind of risk. It's still risk. 5 years of Gose potentially being a useless hitter isn't all that appealing.

Last season when he was a "useless hitter" he still got on base more than Rasmus. What does that say about Colby?

 

[Nasty Nazem]

Gregor Chisholm ‏@gregorMLB
Doesn't sound like there will be an official resolution to the Dickey talks tonight but a deal could be struck as early as Sat. #BlueJays

 

[cyris]

All farms have strengths and weaknesses. A farm doesn't have to fill all of your gaps, it just has to give you the quality assets to let you choose which ones to keep for yourself, and which ones to move for the players you need.

I agree. And IMO we should try to keep Gose and trade some of that pitching depth.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Last season when he was a "useless hitter" he still got on base more than Rasmus. What does that say about Colby?

I never mentioned Colby, but okay. Colby isn't a #9 hitter for the next 5 years.

 

[The Nemesis]

Have you tried using Photobucket before? Might be useful. I've had the same account for almost 8 years so I don't think they're going away any time soon.

I don't mean for uploading. I use a photobucket account too for all my uploads. I mean for getting pictures that I use to make the avatars. Daylife is like a getty images type distributor, but they don't have annoying watermarks over the middle of their pictures. There are other options too, but they're usually less organized. and daylife has always been the easiest place to get the batches of player portraits from during spring training too.

 

[TootooTrain]

I don't mean for uploading. I use a photobucket account too for all my uploads. I mean for getting pictures that I use to make the avatars. Daylife is like a getty images type distributor, but they don't have annoying watermarks over the middle of their pictures. There are other options too, but they're usually less organized. and daylife has always been the easiest place to get the batches of player portraits from during spring training too.

Ahh, gotchya. Nvm then. If you need a hand gathering images let me know. I've got a folder full of random, decently sized, jays pics from last year. Obviously none of the new additions but it might help. All depends ofcourse whether or not you're using the "profile" pics they take at the start of the year.

 

[Scion]

Would I? No.

But it makes more sense than D'Arnaud for a 38-year-old.

At least we could probably keep Niese around for 5-6 years.

I'd much rather have R.A. Dickey for three years than Niese for 6, Dickey is a much better SP.

 

[cyris]

I never mentioned Colby, but okay. Colby isn't a #9 hitter for the next 5 years.

I mentioned Colby because him and Gose are the best options we have for CF right now. If the Mets are looking for a young CF/OF I would rather push to have that be Rasmus. Even if Gose doesn't improve much with the bat he will probably be a the more valuable player.