Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season III: Ray/Semien out, Gausman in. Jays linked to everyone. Labor strife happening.

[Dr.Funk]

 

[showtime8]

No need to respond to all of the posts but I’ll respond to yours. I think the three major leaguers would require an add from Cleveland. I don’t mind moving Biggio with Espinal on board. But even if it’s the three and we retain Kirk I think he’s then immediately flipped for another arm. We simply have too many catchers and they are all young and likely desirable.

Do you think that small add could be former Blue Jay Anthony Gose? lol

They have a lot of good young pitchers under control for years.

 

[dredeye]

Do you think that small add could be former Blue Jay Anthony Gose? lol

They have a lot of good young pitchers under control for years.

Gose would be both funny to see and disappointing in a return add lol. I think a good young pitcher or pen arm kind of thing. Can't see a major league starter coming but that would be nice

 

[Avilaj07]

It seems more and more likely that JRAM is who the Jays are truly after. They went for him last season at the deadline and you better believe Atkins is going all in now. While the package seems steep, people need to also consider that Gurriel realistically only has 1 more season of arb rights so he'll definitely be looking for a significant pay raise. Losing Kirk isn't as bad with Moreno looking like a sure fire prospect and Jansen coming alive in the second half of last season. Groshans won't be missed with Martinez, Lopez and Beltre in the system. It would suck to lose Biggio but if that package brings JRAM to the Jays then you do it 100%. You have him cheap for 2 years and with Atkins and Shapiro having a history with JRAM from their Cleveland years, you'd hope they would have an understanding of eachother and have a long term contract lined up waiting.

 

[djdev]

It seems more and more likely that JRAM is who the Jays are truly after. They went for him last season at the deadline and you better believe Atkins is going all in now. While the package seems steep, people need to also consider that Gurriel realistically only has 1 more season of arb rights so he'll definitely be looking for a significant pay raise. Losing Kirk isn't as bad with Moreno looking like a sure fire prospect and Jansen coming alive in the second half of last season. Groshans won't be missed with Martinez, Lopez and Beltre in the system. It would suck to lose Biggio but if that package brings JRAM to the Jays then you do it 100%. You have him cheap for 2 years and with Atkins and Shapiro having a history with JRAM from their Cleveland years, you'd hope they would have an understanding of eachother and have a long term contract lined up waiting.

having j ramirez, bo, vladdy, and im hoping moreno as the core going forward along with springer and teo is going to scare the bejeezuz out of alot of pitching staffs for the forseeable future. even without moreno that would be the scariest lineup in the majors, to me ramirez is actually an upgrade over semian.

just get it done already! lol

 

[phillipmike]

To summarize:

• Moreno is going to be good. There might be a concern with laying off sliders but overall with the limited ABs, it's rare to see another catcher with full offensive/defensive package. 2nd best catcher after Rustchman
• Pearson's future at this point is sliding towards to reliever role due to his health track record, lack of command/control. Frustrating to see Pearson to still be in BA's prospect handbook. 2022 is going to final look at where Pearson is going to end up considering he's turning 26 soon.
• Groshans is probably going to be a 3B long term. He held his own in AA despite the aggressive assignment from the Jays. Need to show more power since he was expected to barrel the ball more from his draft profile.
• Ricky Tiedemann might be the steal of the 2021 draft. Saw an increase jump in velo from upper 80s to mid-up 90s after draft. Good CH and secondary. If he stay healthy he can be a big riser next season.
• Estiven Machado is another person that is good to keep an eye on next season. Runs well, switch hitter with exceptional athleticism. He can move up the list fairly quick if he can stay healthy and hits well.
• Overall, the Jays farm is more or less mid-tier

 

[phillipmike]

2 superstar shortstops, 30 teams: Ranking the best fits for Correa and Story

Four-star fits

Toronto Blue Jays: The Blue Jays are just looking to upgrade, regardless of position. They are good with Bo Bichette at shortstop for the foreseeable future, but they signed Semien last year anyway and made him their second baseman. They could do something similar this time around with either Correa or Story, only perhaps insert one of them at the hot corner, or bump Bichette. The Blue Jays had a special position group in 2021 but Semien was a big part of that dynamic and now that he's in Texas, they have an opening for a star-level player on the infield.

 

[canucksfan]

Having a mid-tier group of prospects after trading a few and some graduating is fairly good.

It's too bad about Pearson. I think having him start in AAA would be ideal and call him up if an injury occurs or he's excelling.

 

[habamillions]

having j ramirez, bo, vladdy, and im hoping moreno as the core going forward along with springer and teo is going to scare the bejeezuz out of alot of pitching staffs for the forseeable future. even without moreno that would be the scariest lineup in the majors, to me ramirez is actually an upgrade over semian.

just get it done already! lol

His numbers were similar to semien amd didnt have nearly the protection in the lineup semien had

 

[rojac]

I'd love to see the plans they have. I hope it includes an exterior facelift too!

Personally, I wouldn't waste much money on the exterior. I think there are better things that money could be spent on that would improve the fan experience.

What do you think should be done to the exterior? And what benefits will those changes bring to the Jays or their fans?

 

[phillipmike]

5 Blockbuster ‘Christmas Miracle’ Blue Jays Trade Proposals

Blue Jays receive: OF/1B Cody Bellinger
Dodgers receive: OF Lourdes Gurriel Jr., INF Jordan Groshans, RHP Adam Kloffenstein

So giving up a starting LF on a cheap contract with a top 5 prospect and a promising arm for a guy who put up -1.5 WAR set to make $17M, is buying low? Pass

Blue Jays receive: 3B José Ramírez
Guardians receive: SS/3B Orelvis Martinez, C Alejandro Kirk, UTIL Cavan Biggio

I cant see us giving up both Kirk and Orelvis in a deal for Ramirez unless he is willing to sign an extension.

Blue Jays receive: SP Pablo López, INF Joey Wendle
Marlins receive: RHP Nate Pearson, C Alejandro Kirk, OF Randal Grichuk

Way too much for a guy with shoulder problems, no matter how young or good he is. Though i like Wendle a lot, he could be a good fit at 3B. Wonder if Miami would do Otto Lopez and McGuire for Wendle? Maybe go as high as Jansen instead of McGuire.

Blue Jays receive: 2B/OF Whit Merrifield, RHP Scott Barlow
Royals receive: UTIL Cavan Biggio, SS/2B Miguel Hiraldo, RHP Sem Robberse

The only deal that is reasonable and it is something i would do. But i cant see KC doing it.

Blue Jays receive: RHP Sonny Gray, 1B Joey Votto
Reds receive: C Alejandro Kirk, OF Lourdes Gurriel Jr., RHP Thomas Hatch

Haha no thanks. Gray bombed in the AL and Kirk and Gurriel for Votto's awful deal? Ill give them Grichuk and Hatch for a retained Votto.

 

[Avilaj07]

To Toronto-
Ramirez
Plesac

To Cleveland-
Gurriel
Kirk
Groshans
Pearson
Lopez

 

[canucksfan]

5 Blockbuster ‘Christmas Miracle’ Blue Jays Trade Proposals

So giving up a starting LF on a cheap contract with a top 5 prospect and a promising arm for a guy who put up -1.5 WAR set to make $17M, is buying low? Pass

I cant see us giving up both Kirk and Orelvis in a deal for Ramirez unless he is willing to sign an extension.

Way too much for a guy with shoulder problems, no matter how young or good he is. Though i like Wendle a lot, he could be a good fit at 3B. Wonder if Miami would do Otto Lopez and McGuire for Wendle? Maybe go as high as Jansen instead of McGuire.

The only deal that is reasonable and it is something i would do. But i cant see KC doing it.

Haha no thanks. Gray bombed in the AL and Kirk and Gurriel for Votto's awful deal? Ill give them Grichuk and Hatch for a retained Votto.

The Royals one is the only one I would consider as you said. The other ones a strong NO.

 

[TGB]

I'd still prefer they target pitching over offense.

 

[CherryToke]

having j ramirez, bo, vladdy, and im hoping moreno as the core going forward along with springer and teo is going to scare the bejeezuz out of alot of pitching staffs for the forseeable future. even without moreno that would be the scariest lineup in the majors, to me ramirez is actually an upgrade over semian.

just get it done already! lol

He is an upgrade for sure when you factor in lineup balance. JRam/Vladdy back to back would be near Ortiz/Manny level

 

[habamillions]

5 Blockbuster ‘Christmas Miracle’ Blue Jays Trade Proposals

So giving up a starting LF on a cheap contract with a top 5 prospect and a promising arm for a guy who put up -1.5 WAR set to make $17M, is buying low? Pass

I cant see us giving up both Kirk and Orelvis in a deal for Ramirez unless he is willing to sign an extension.

Way too much for a guy with shoulder problems, no matter how young or good he is. Though i like Wendle a lot, he could be a good fit at 3B. Wonder if Miami would do Otto Lopez and McGuire for Wendle? Maybe go as high as Jansen instead of McGuire.

The only deal that is reasonable and it is something i would do. But i cant see KC doing it.

Haha no thanks. Gray bombed in the AL and Kirk and Gurriel for Votto's awful deal? Ill give them Grichuk and Hatch for a retained Votto.

I agree only deal that is reasonable is the merrifield one. Obviously ramirez would be a great get but you are not trading your entire prospect pool for ramirez unless he agrees on an extention

 

[dredeye]

To Toronto-
Ramirez
Plesac

To Cleveland-
Gurriel
Kirk
Groshans
Pearson
Lopez

That would be something

 

[phillipmike]

Let's Spend $30MM Of The Blue Jays' Money

 

[Canada4Gold]

I keep coming back to Bryant and his ability to play the outfield as well as 3rd base. 2 years from now we have 1 outfielder. Teo, Gurriel, and Grichuk are all free agents in 2024. I'd like to resign Teo for sure but the odds of signing both him and Lourdes can't be that high. Which lines up fairly neatly with the potential timeline for Orelvis and Groshans. Bryant to play 3rd for 2 years and then potentially shift to fill a corner outfield hole as Martinez or Groshans cements their place on the team as the starting 3rd baseman makes a ton of sense to me.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I keep coming back to Bryant and his ability to play the outfield as well as 3rd base. 2 years from now we have 1 outfielder. Teo, Gurriel, and Grichuk are all free agents in 2024. I'd like to resign Teo for sure but the odds of signing both him and Lourdes can't be that high. Which lines up fairly neatly with the potential timeline for Orelvis and Groshans. Bryant to play 3rd for 2 years and then potentially shift to fill a corner outfield hole as Martinez or Groshans cements their place on the team as the starting 3rd baseman makes a ton of sense to me.

I mean he went out there and played...but was he actually any good? I know he is a net negative defensive player in general but I am not sure I would want to be counting on a 32 or 33 year old Bryant to be able to play a competent everyday outfield for us.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I mean he went out there and played...but was he actually any good? I know he is a net negative defensive player in general but I am not sure I would want to be counting on a 32 or 33 year old Bryant to be able to play a competent everyday outfield for us.

He was not very good this year I'll give you that. 100th of 110 outfielders with at least 500 innings played in UZR/150. It's been a very up and down career defensive in the outfield though. He was positive in a very small sample in 2020, and his 2nd biggest sample of innings in 1 year in the outfield he was 13th of 131 in UZR/150 for outfielders with at least 400 innings. Granted that was 2016 when he was younger. His career UZR/150 is better than Teo, and would be better than Gurriel if it wasn't for Gurriels arm being one of the best in the league. That's where Bryant's biggest deficiency comes from.

It might not be ideal, but if your other corner outfielder is above average I think you are more than happy to deal with it given his potential with the bat. Basically the same situation that we're in now with Teo. He's not good but is passable and his bat more than makes up for it.

We have 2 OF holes to fill in 2024, and while that's an issue you don't need to deal with now, and I'd love to extend Teo, signing Bryant could kill 2 birds with 1 stone, fills a 3B hole now and when we're ready to graduate 2 our our best prospects into that slot he fills an OF role when we need one in 2 years. I don't think you're getting 2 players to fill those OF holes that have a overall value better than Bryant but with the price tag who knows. We have basically nothing down in the minors to fill that unless Samad Taylor is real so something will have to be spent to fill 2 slots whether it's money or prospect assets.

 

[Kurtz]

Corner OF is pretty much my last concern, tbh...there are always good corner OFs available in-season for cheap. AA got 3 of them for next to nothing this year, for example. We got Dickerson for next to nothing. And they're not hard gets in free agency either.

 

[phillipmike]

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Twins must be realizing what the Jays seemed to...Kids got no power.

 

[phillipmike]

Twins must be realizing what the Jays seemed to...Kids got no power.

Yeah which is surprising. But if they want starters I’ll give them Kay, Stripling and Hatch for Martin.