Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season III: Ray/Semien out, Gausman in. Jays linked to everyone. Labor strife happening.

[Canada4Gold]

Still sad we didn't draft Zac Veen. No idea how we would have gotten Berrios then, but man I wanted Veen.

 

[Discoverer]

Between this kind of talk and Berrios signing what looks like a perfectly reasonable extension, I can't imagine many Twins fans are happy with that whole situation, even though the price the Jays paid seemed really high at first.

 

[Bjindaho]

Between this kind of talk and Berrios signing what looks like a perfectly reasonable extension, I can't imagine many Twins fans are happy with that whole situation, even though the price the Jays paid seemed really high at first.

To be fair, it seemed high because we were using outdated prospect lists to judge it.

There's a ton of potential in the kids we gave up (possibly star at a premium defensive position and possible 2 starter), but the floor (if they even make it) is utility player and non-closing bullpen arm.

 

[canucksfan]

It was hilarious seeing the reaction on this board when the trade first happened. Then a few linked some scouting reports on Martin’s lack of power and poor defense and the mood started to change. Signing Berrios to a long term contract made a huge difference as well.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Personally, I wouldn't waste much money on the exterior. I think there are better things that money could be spent on that would improve the fan experience.

What do you think should be done to the exterior? And what benefits will those changes bring to the Jays or their fans?

A time machine so they can go back and use $250m 90’s era money to build a retro park in the exact spot the dome is in.
Realistic? Nuke the 500 level outfield and open it up to show more skyline and add a concourse there instead of seating. more light, more of a feeling of being downtown TO and a lot less concrete.

 

[dredeye]

It was hilarious seeing the reaction on this board when the trade first happened. Then a few linked some scouting reports on Martin’s lack of power and poor defense and the mood started to change. Signing Berrios to a long term contract made a huge difference as well.

I’m one of those people and I think that was a very reasonable at the time. Players were getting traded for weak prospects and we gave up two highly touted ones at the time. Seemed like a huge prospect overpay at the time

 

[canucksfan]

I’m one of those people and I think that was a very reasonable at the time. Players were getting traded for weak prospects and we gave up two highly touted ones at the time. Seemed like a huge prospect overpay at the time

I was one of those as well. I was pissed when I heard Martin was involved. I also thought it was trading for one year of Berrios because the chances the Jays were making the playoffs this past season were low. The extension played a big role in regard to the value of the trade. Martin's declining value also helped too.

 

[phillipmike]

Holiday Wishlist: 3 Free Agent Starters to Finalize the Blue Jays Rotation

-Michael Pineda
-Kwang Hyun Kim
-Tyler Anderson

Kim looks like a great arm to add to the team.

 

[TGB]

It was hilarious seeing the reaction on this board when the trade first happened. Then a few linked some scouting reports on Martin’s lack of power and poor defense and the mood started to change.

Mind you, these are evaluations of kids in their first year or so of pro play.

The reality is it would require a couple more years before any of us have a proper read on them, and the TRUE reason for the trade isn't because the Jays balked at their player performances, but because they needed pitching now and those players were likely 3+ years off. I imagine they also spoke with Berrios before the trade and got the sense he was open to an extension. Frankly, the price was about right.

 

[dredeye]

I was one of those as well. I was pissed when I heard Martin was involved. I also thought it was trading for one year of Berrios because the chances the Jays were making the playoffs this past season were low. The extension played a big role in regard to the value of the trade. Martin's declining value also helped too.

That’s what I really had a problem with. There were many reports that Berrios had openly said he’d be testing free agency and like you I didn’t see the playoffs last year for us so it was a one year rental. The extension makes it easily acceptable though

 

[dredeye]

Mind you, these are evaluations of kids in their first year or so of pro play. My issue with Martin was his arm because that gave him value as an outfielder, but arm strength generally doesn't change and we have enough infield prospects. If you really believe the Twins are dumb enough to give up a pitcher like that based on "outdated prospect lists", then I don't know what to tell you. The reality is it would require a couple more years before any of us have a proper read on them.

He was talking about posters responded based on outdated prospect lists. Not that the twins made a trade based on old information. I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion.

 

[canucksfan]

Mind you, these are evaluations of kids in their first year or so of pro play. My issue with Martin was his arm because that gave him value as an outfielder, but arm strength generally doesn't change and we have enough infield prospects. If you really believe the Twins are dumb enough to give up a pitcher like that based on "outdated prospect lists", then I don't know what to tell you. The reality is it would require a couple more years before any of us have a proper read on them.

Some teams make dumb moves. Jays management traded Happ for Mckinney and Drury which made no sense even when it happened. If Martin does develop power then he will be a solid player. We have no idea how the Twins assessed Martin or SWR at the time of the trade. Also, I was commenting on how posters here responded to the trade.

 

[phillipmike]

 

[TGB]

Some teams make dumb moves. Jays management traded Happ for Mckinney and Drury which made no sense even when it happened.

Uh, that trade made perfect sense, actually, and I'm not sure why any of you thought the league would have been dumb enough to give up good players for what was, at the time, an old pitcher whose sudden resurgence came as a complete surprise. Two prospects that were a gamble was about the best thing you could have got for a player like that (or maybe a decent reliever). It was the same idea for Gio Urshela and look how that worked out.

I'll never understand why this forum believes it's so easy to dupe other teams into giving up good players. You guys know the other teams are fully aware of a player's value, right?

I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion.

Oh, please. Someone in this forum taking the opportunity to deliver a veiled shot at someone else/organization? That's like 80% of the posts here. He literally does it in his reply to me.

 

[canucksfan]

Uh, that trade made perfect sense, actually, and I'm not sure why any of you thought the league would have been dumb enough to give up good players for what was, at the time, an old pitcher whose sudden resurgence came as a complete surprise. Two prospects that were a gamble was about the best thing you could have got for a player like that (or maybe a decent reliever). It was the same idea for Gio Urshela and look how that worked out.

I'll never understand why this forum believes it's so easy to dupe other teams into giving up good players. You guys know the other teams are fully aware of a player's value, right?



Oh, please. Someone in this forum taking the opportunity to deliver a veiled shot at someone else/organization? That's like 80% of the posts here. He literally does it in his reply to me.

Honestly, I really have no idea what you are trying to argue. My original point was many posters here were looking at older prospect lists to evaluate the trade when it initially occurred. We were also under the impression that Berrios was going to test FA. Both of these were facts.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

Bonus draft picks give Blue Jays room for creativity in 2022 draft





that’s about what the Blue Jays would be working with if they didn’t have these comp picks. Instead, they should have a war chest closer to $8.17 million

 

[Kurtz]

It was hilarious seeing the reaction on this board when the trade first happened. Then a few linked some scouting reports on Martin’s lack of power and poor defense and the mood started to change. Signing Berrios to a long term contract made a huge difference as well.

That reaction was 100% justified at the time. SWR was the main piece we got for Stroman. Martin was largely considered to be a steal at 5, drafted only months earlier. And Berrios was considered to be a 1.5 y rental (he himself confirmed that he wanted to go to free agency at the time of the trade).

Today things look very different, off course.

 

[dredeye]

Uh, that trade made perfect sense, actually, and I'm not sure why any of you thought the league would have been dumb enough to give up good players for what was, at the time, an old pitcher whose sudden resurgence came as a complete surprise. Two prospects that were a gamble was about the best thing you could have got for a player like that (or maybe a decent reliever). It was the same idea for Gio Urshela and look how that worked out.

I'll never understand why this forum believes it's so easy to dupe other teams into giving up good players. You guys know the other teams are fully aware of a player's value, right?



Oh, please. Someone in this forum taking the opportunity to deliver a veiled shot at someone else/organization? That's like 80% of the posts here. He literally does it in his reply to me.

That was all your failed reading comprehension and nothing else. It was pretty clear what he was saying.

as for the Happ trade. If memory serves Happ was the best available pitcher at the deadline and when trading for a pitcher who’s on an expiring contract you should only care about what they are doing now. If Happ had years of term left then age and history matter more. I get the gamble they took but that return was god awful.

 

[Woodman19]

I think Jays fans are traumatized by the 2000's era where we had like 1 fringe reliever prospect make it in 5 years where we feel like we have to hoard everyone.

The Shapiro front office is developing such an abundance of players that you have to start making decisions before you have a 40-man roster glut and you risk a ton of players to the Rule-5 draft while you get the added bonus of picking who you really believe in. That's why guys with seemingly good upside like Martin is an easy choice over someone like say Moreno who profiles as an elite bat at a premium position.

 

[Puckstuff]

It was hilarious seeing the reaction on this board when the trade first happened. Then a few linked some scouting reports on Martin’s lack of power and poor defense and the mood started to change. Signing Berrios to a long term contract made a huge difference as well.

Also I gotta give credit to Shapkins for trading a player with a perceived higher value then actual value. Armchair GM’s across the league and media talking like Atkins/Shapiro got fleeced or overpaid when we clearly didn’t IMO.

 

[djdev]

His numbers were similar to semien amd didnt have nearly the protection in the lineup semien had

ye and career-wise, he has a much higher OBP, slugging, avg, steals more bases and is a switch hitter. he was made for this lineup lol.

 

[canucksfan]

Happy Holidays and all the best in the New Year to everyone that posts in the Blue Jays threads. Really enjoy reading through them.

Hopefully, baseball is back on time.

 

[Discoverer]

Honestly, I really have no idea what you are trying to argue. My original point was many posters here were looking at older prospect lists to evaluate the trade when it initially occurred. We were also under the impression that Berrios was going to test FA. Both of these were facts.

Not to mention his hilarious interpretation of the Happ trade. Sudden resurgence? Happ had been a well above average pitcher for three years by the time the trade happened. There was nothing "sudden" about Happ's performance at that time.

 

[phillipmike]

Merry Christmas everyone! Hope you all have a great day!

 

[Nick034]

Merry Christmas everyone!