If they trade Kirk and Moreno tears the cover off the ball in spring training, he needs to be on the opening day roster. The org was smart to put him in the fall league and winter ball to get some at bats and he's proving to be an on base machine wherever he goes, he might not need that half-a-season AAA padding.
Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season III: Ray/Semien out, Gausman in. Jays linked to everyone. Labor strife happening.
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Then there was that time Buck Showalter almost became Blue Jays GM - Sportsnet.ca
What would wind you up more? Buck Showalter as manager of the Toronto Blue Jays ... or Buck Showalter as general manager of the Blue Jays?
Showalter, bête noire to a generation of Blue Jays fans, is among a group of candidates given second interviews this week for the New York Mets manager job – and is in fact considered the frontrunner, with a follow-up scheduled for Friday, per Jon Heyman. So I asked Paul Godfrey, former Blue Jays president and chief executive officer, to tell me about the time Showalter interviewed for the Blue Jays general manager's job in 2001.
Then as now, Showalter was a TV analyst in between jobs after being fired by the Arizona Diamondbacks following three years as manager. The Blue Jays had fired Gord Ash, and although the job would eventually go to J.P. Ricciardi, Godfrey and long-time advisor Herb Solway remember fondly the five hours of their time that were taken up by Showalter.
“He was so knowledgeable about every team in baseball, and the interview went on for four, five hours,” Godfrey said this week. “But as the interview went on, I jumped in and said: ‘Buck, wait a minute. Are you interviewing for the general manager's job or the manager's job? Because we’re looking for a G.M. ... and you sure sound like you want to manage. If we offered you the G.M.’s job, would it make you happy?’ He thought about it and said: ‘You’re right. I’d be taking the second-best job.’
“There was no doubt in our mind that his heart was in managing. But it was four or five hours of real entertainment.”
Showalter went on to manage the Texas Rangers from 2003-06, and in 2010 he took over the Baltimore Orioles, where he became one of the faces of a rivalry with the ascendant Blue Jays – picking fights with Blue Jays players while at the same time perfecting an oddly passive-aggressive personae both in word and deed whenever the teams met. Showalter was fired after the 2018 season, and if he gets the Mets job he will hook up with a team that couldn’t get out of its way in 2021, owned by a guy (Steve Cohen) who is a couple of tweets away from going from mercurial to maniacal.
It’s a perfect match. Showalter is no stranger to New York, managing the Yankees from 1992-95. He has newly signed Max Scherzer lobbying for him (make no mistake: Scherzer will run that clubhouse), and he knows about managing upward and communicating. He’ll bring maturity and a steady hand.
What he doesn’t bring is a track record of post-season success. Or a sense of timing. Showalter left the Yankees the year before they won the first of four World Series titles in five years under Joe Torre – he resigned when owner George Steinbrenner demanded he fire hitting coach Rick Down. That Yankees run of success ended in 2001 when Bob Brenly’s Arizona Diamondbacks beat them ... a year after Showalter had been fired as D-backs manager.
What would wind you up more? Buck Showalter as manager of the Toronto Blue Jays ... or Buck Showalter as general manager of the Blue Jays?
Showalter, bête noire to a generation of Blue Jays fans, is among a group of candidates given second interviews this week for the New York Mets manager job – and is in fact considered the frontrunner, with a follow-up scheduled for Friday, per Jon Heyman. So I asked Paul Godfrey, former Blue Jays president and chief executive officer, to tell me about the time Showalter interviewed for the Blue Jays general manager's job in 2001.
Then as now, Showalter was a TV analyst in between jobs after being fired by the Arizona Diamondbacks following three years as manager. The Blue Jays had fired Gord Ash, and although the job would eventually go to J.P. Ricciardi, Godfrey and long-time advisor Herb Solway remember fondly the five hours of their time that were taken up by Showalter.
“He was so knowledgeable about every team in baseball, and the interview went on for four, five hours,” Godfrey said this week. “But as the interview went on, I jumped in and said: ‘Buck, wait a minute. Are you interviewing for the general manager's job or the manager's job? Because we’re looking for a G.M. ... and you sure sound like you want to manage. If we offered you the G.M.’s job, would it make you happy?’ He thought about it and said: ‘You’re right. I’d be taking the second-best job.’
“There was no doubt in our mind that his heart was in managing. But it was four or five hours of real entertainment.”
Showalter went on to manage the Texas Rangers from 2003-06, and in 2010 he took over the Baltimore Orioles, where he became one of the faces of a rivalry with the ascendant Blue Jays – picking fights with Blue Jays players while at the same time perfecting an oddly passive-aggressive personae both in word and deed whenever the teams met. Showalter was fired after the 2018 season, and if he gets the Mets job he will hook up with a team that couldn’t get out of its way in 2021, owned by a guy (Steve Cohen) who is a couple of tweets away from going from mercurial to maniacal.
It’s a perfect match. Showalter is no stranger to New York, managing the Yankees from 1992-95. He has newly signed Max Scherzer lobbying for him (make no mistake: Scherzer will run that clubhouse), and he knows about managing upward and communicating. He’ll bring maturity and a steady hand.
What he doesn’t bring is a track record of post-season success. Or a sense of timing. Showalter left the Yankees the year before they won the first of four World Series titles in five years under Joe Torre – he resigned when owner George Steinbrenner demanded he fire hitting coach Rick Down. That Yankees run of success ended in 2001 when Bob Brenly’s Arizona Diamondbacks beat them ... a year after Showalter had been fired as D-backs manager.
I would have stopped following the team. I dont believe he's ever gotten the best out of any team he's been with.
Kurtz
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We'll have to keep him in AAA to work on his...let's say 3B defense...for oh I don't know, let's say 171 days
dredeye
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BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Morgs
#16 #34 #44 #88 #91
Although I do think baseball Managers are easily the most useless "Head Coaches" in the four big NA sports, having a bad one is a real issue. Have fun Mets!
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
I'm 100% on board for the schadenfreude of watching Showalter sit on the Mets bench with his sour, curmudgeonly scowl while the team self destructs.
Seeing the corners of Showalter's mouth pinch in as he quietly watches everything burn around him is fantastic entertainment.
Seeing the corners of Showalter's mouth pinch in as he quietly watches everything burn around him is fantastic entertainment.
AllDay28
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We'll have to keep him in AAA to work on his...let's say 3B defense...for oh I don't know, let's say 171 days
wonder if the strike will address this. feel like it has too
Too bad Stroman isn't with the Mets anymore. Him and Sholwalter should be hilarious
Kurtz
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It definitely should, but the players union tends to be more concerned with the welfare of established guys rather than guys in minor leagues.
Seath The Scaleless
Paledrake
phillipmike
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Read a rumour a few weeks ago that Schrezer and de Grom wanted Showalter. The idea is that because he is old school, he will let them go deeper into games.
Kurtz
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The same Scherzer that had to tap out in the playoffs due to being overworked? Not sure I buy that rumour.
phillipmike
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Max Scherzer says his dead arm in postseason was result of Dodgers’ pitch count limit
https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodg...itch-count-led-to-dead-arm-playoffs?_amp=true
Schrezer says he was ineffective in the playoffs because he was given too much rest in the regular season and he gets better when he pitches more frequently and more innings. Clearly the evidences didn’t back that up but that was his belief.
Max Scherzer has ‘great respect’ for Buck Showalter in Mets’ managerial search
I’m trying to find the deGrom tweet.
Last edited:
Kurtz
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Oh, wow. I'm sure Max is conflating causation with correlation here (causation likely being...he's old and he didn't used to be), but yeah that's an interesting perspective.
phillipmike
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Yeah, his POV doesn’t make much sense so he will fit in well with the Mets.
phillipmike
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phillipmike
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Avilaj07
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Still think Ramirez ends up with the Jays before this off season is over once the strike is done. It's clear the Jays have been after him the last 2 seasons and with them putting a focus on getting a lefty bad, he fits that need as well being a switch hitter. The question is, what does the package look like.
Gurriel+Groshans+Kirk?
Gurriel+Groshans+Kirk?
More like Moreno+Pearson+Gurriel. The Indians or whatever they're called now tends to demand radical overpayment for their players.
I think it's much more likely the Jays do a deal with the Athletics. They have a history with them.
In Buck Showalter, Mets have found a win-now manager for a win-now team - ESPN.com
New York Mets owner Steve Cohen is an avid collector of art, his collection of Picasso and Doig and others reportedly worth many hundreds of millions of dollars. But one of his favorite pieces is round: the baseball that rolled between the legs of Bill Buckner to end Game 6 of the 1986 World Series to give the Mets their greatest victory ever.
The ball had been sold repeatedly, and when it became available in 2012, Cohen was told by a business associate that it would probably cost something in the range of $100,000 to $150,000, as he explained last year to SNY. "All right, I'll do it," Cohen recalled saying. "It's a great moment in Met history. 'Buy it.'"
A deal was struck on Cohen's behalf, and it wasn't until afterward that Cohen asked about the final price -- $410,000, as it turned out. He remembered not being happy about it at the time.
But in the end, Steve Cohen got exactly what he wanted, and an episode that mirrors how he'll continue to run his baseball team. There was one managerial candidate available who checked every need for the best possible Mets hire -- an experienced manager who would have instant credibility with players, was considered an excellent tactician and someone who had worked in New York -- and this is how Buck Showalter was hired. A win-now manager for a win-now team operated by a win-now owner.
When Cohen purchased the Mets, he had suggested that he would win a World Series within three to five years. After Year 1 -- the 2021 season -- was a complete disaster, Cohen has doubled down, paying a record amount ($130 million over three years) for future Hall of Famer Max Scherzer. The Mets' clubhouse culture was perceived to be a problem last year, so Cohen's new general manager paid high prices for Eduardo Escobar and Mark Canha, two players known to strongly influence teammates. The Mets needed a center fielder, so Cohen OK'd the signing of the best available center fielder, Starling Marte, to a staggering four-year, $78 million contract.
Rival executives estimate that hiring Showalter will cost the team between $3 million and $5 million annually, or three to five times what the other candidates, Joe Espada and Matt Quatraro, might have earned as first-time big league managers.
Really, any choice other than Showalter would've been fraught with risk, because of the enormous risk that the 2022 Mets will bear. The best chance for Cohen and Eppler to win now was to spend big this winter, but it could all go sideways. Ace Jacob deGrom hasn't pitched since the middle of last season, and according to team president Sandy Alderson, he suffered a UCL sprain last summer -- something that deGrom subsequently denied. Scherzer turns 38 in July, and his chance for injury increases from year to year. Robinson Cano is 39 years old and missed all of last season because of a PED suspension. Marte, Canha and Escobar are all closer to the ends of their respective careers than the beginning.
New York Mets owner Steve Cohen is an avid collector of art, his collection of Picasso and Doig and others reportedly worth many hundreds of millions of dollars. But one of his favorite pieces is round: the baseball that rolled between the legs of Bill Buckner to end Game 6 of the 1986 World Series to give the Mets their greatest victory ever.
The ball had been sold repeatedly, and when it became available in 2012, Cohen was told by a business associate that it would probably cost something in the range of $100,000 to $150,000, as he explained last year to SNY. "All right, I'll do it," Cohen recalled saying. "It's a great moment in Met history. 'Buy it.'"
A deal was struck on Cohen's behalf, and it wasn't until afterward that Cohen asked about the final price -- $410,000, as it turned out. He remembered not being happy about it at the time.
But in the end, Steve Cohen got exactly what he wanted, and an episode that mirrors how he'll continue to run his baseball team. There was one managerial candidate available who checked every need for the best possible Mets hire -- an experienced manager who would have instant credibility with players, was considered an excellent tactician and someone who had worked in New York -- and this is how Buck Showalter was hired. A win-now manager for a win-now team operated by a win-now owner.
When Cohen purchased the Mets, he had suggested that he would win a World Series within three to five years. After Year 1 -- the 2021 season -- was a complete disaster, Cohen has doubled down, paying a record amount ($130 million over three years) for future Hall of Famer Max Scherzer. The Mets' clubhouse culture was perceived to be a problem last year, so Cohen's new general manager paid high prices for Eduardo Escobar and Mark Canha, two players known to strongly influence teammates. The Mets needed a center fielder, so Cohen OK'd the signing of the best available center fielder, Starling Marte, to a staggering four-year, $78 million contract.
Rival executives estimate that hiring Showalter will cost the team between $3 million and $5 million annually, or three to five times what the other candidates, Joe Espada and Matt Quatraro, might have earned as first-time big league managers.
Really, any choice other than Showalter would've been fraught with risk, because of the enormous risk that the 2022 Mets will bear. The best chance for Cohen and Eppler to win now was to spend big this winter, but it could all go sideways. Ace Jacob deGrom hasn't pitched since the middle of last season, and according to team president Sandy Alderson, he suffered a UCL sprain last summer -- something that deGrom subsequently denied. Scherzer turns 38 in July, and his chance for injury increases from year to year. Robinson Cano is 39 years old and missed all of last season because of a PED suspension. Marte, Canha and Escobar are all closer to the ends of their respective careers than the beginning.
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