Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season III: Ray/Semien out, Gausman in. Jays linked to everyone. Labor strife happening.
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Why Jeff Blair only has four players on his 2022 Hall of Fame ballot - Sportsnet.ca
Blue Jays 'agressive' but 'discplined' in free agency
Well if this doesn’t tide you over until the end of a wintry lockout, I don’t know what will: Jeff Passan of ESPN reported that the Toronto Blue Jays were very much players in the Corey Seager market, although at the end they were not willing to match the Texas Rangers’ 10-year, $325-million offer.
The immediate reaction, of course, is to put two and two together and assume that means they’d be players in the Carlos Correa market once the new collective bargaining agreement is in place. My guess is they have contacted Correa’s people as well as Freddie Freeman’s, but I don’t know where that leads. I do know from talking to folks familiar with the Blue Jays approach this off-season -- including an agent whose client didn’t sign with them -- that the Jays have been described as being “aggressive” yet “disciplined.” They held firm when Robbie Ray wanted extra money to balance out tax differences and considering Texas has no state income tax, my guess is their willingness to be creative had its limits.
“They’re not cheap, they value players in the same way other big markets value them,” the agent told me. “But they stick to that valuation.”
What has become apparent from talking to people in the industry is that the Blue Jays have been very comfortable selling themselves as a destination for free agents: the city, the lineup, the whole thing. It will be interesting to see how far this “you’re missing out on something special if you don’t sign with us,” message resonates when the off-season resumes. But, man, what a change from the way business used to be done.
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People who know Blue Jays pitching coach Pete Walker believe that he is interested in becoming a manager eventually -- as he should, frankly -- so my guess is the New York Mets job isn’t the last one he will be linked to, either by reporters putting out his name or teams interviewing him. There used to be a predisposition against hiring former pitchers or pitching coaches as managers, but given the way coaching staffs are now constituted and workloads are distributed, that bias will more and more be overcome by a comfort with and ability to communicate the use of technology and analytics. I’m not certain the Mets job is the one I’d choose as a candidate for managerial training wheels, is all.
Blue Jays 'agressive' but 'discplined' in free agency
Well if this doesn’t tide you over until the end of a wintry lockout, I don’t know what will: Jeff Passan of ESPN reported that the Toronto Blue Jays were very much players in the Corey Seager market, although at the end they were not willing to match the Texas Rangers’ 10-year, $325-million offer.
The immediate reaction, of course, is to put two and two together and assume that means they’d be players in the Carlos Correa market once the new collective bargaining agreement is in place. My guess is they have contacted Correa’s people as well as Freddie Freeman’s, but I don’t know where that leads. I do know from talking to folks familiar with the Blue Jays approach this off-season -- including an agent whose client didn’t sign with them -- that the Jays have been described as being “aggressive” yet “disciplined.” They held firm when Robbie Ray wanted extra money to balance out tax differences and considering Texas has no state income tax, my guess is their willingness to be creative had its limits.
“They’re not cheap, they value players in the same way other big markets value them,” the agent told me. “But they stick to that valuation.”
What has become apparent from talking to people in the industry is that the Blue Jays have been very comfortable selling themselves as a destination for free agents: the city, the lineup, the whole thing. It will be interesting to see how far this “you’re missing out on something special if you don’t sign with us,” message resonates when the off-season resumes. But, man, what a change from the way business used to be done.
.....................
People who know Blue Jays pitching coach Pete Walker believe that he is interested in becoming a manager eventually -- as he should, frankly -- so my guess is the New York Mets job isn’t the last one he will be linked to, either by reporters putting out his name or teams interviewing him. There used to be a predisposition against hiring former pitchers or pitching coaches as managers, but given the way coaching staffs are now constituted and workloads are distributed, that bias will more and more be overcome by a comfort with and ability to communicate the use of technology and analytics. I’m not certain the Mets job is the one I’d choose as a candidate for managerial training wheels, is all.
OK, i don't know baseball like i used to and all these new stats that matter more yada yada, has me in the woods.
SO, a little help please,,by my eyes and understanding of numbers ,Espinal is/would be a absolutely fine long term 3rd/2nd baseman.
I guess the only issue is the desire to add more LHB. That i see.
sooo, what am i missing here?
SO, a little help please,,by my eyes and understanding of numbers ,Espinal is/would be a absolutely fine long term 3rd/2nd baseman.
I guess the only issue is the desire to add more LHB. That i see.
sooo, what am i missing here?
This year's Espinal is a top 5 3B, possibly best 2B in baseball. The issue is whether he can repeat it. His underlying stats suggest that there was some luck to it.
If we add something like Freeman (moving Vlad to 3B) or Bryant, Espinal is at worst a respectable starting 2B with potential.
If we signed Correa, Espinal gives us the leeway to see if Bo could be great at 3B or 2B.
We dont have a lot of evidence of how good of a 2B defensively he is, but he's a very good defensive SS and has shown signs that he's literally the best defensive 3B in the game (when he's there)
Ignore the people who repeatedly throw advanced stats around. This year they proved to be no better at predicting performance and outcomes than anyone else. Go ahead and trust your gut. Part of the fun of watching baseball is not really knowing how it will turn out.
The issue with Espinal at 3B isn't that he's not good, but he's not THAT good. He fields, but he's a light hitter (so far), and the whole Espinal/Semien situation was a weird reverse of what teams prefer it to be where the 3B is the slugger. The Jays are just trying to preserve that balance, but with an actual slugger at 3rd. Espinal's profile makes more sense up the middle.
The whole left bat thing is really more of a superstition. When a team has this much elite contact on it (and they don't even have Moreno yet), you don't really need a left hand at bat. And for some reason they've forgotten about Biggio even though he was hitting well when he came back. As far as infield situations go, what they have plus Espinal and Biggio filling in whenever plus whoever they get for third is a pretty darn solid infield situation. Frankly, they don't really need some superstar slugger at 3rd. Get some defensive whiz at second plus the offense they already have and they're good. Where they should be putting their money is pitching.
Well, will you look at that. The thing I often say is a major issue with free agents coming to Canada, and people were telling me I was wrong about due to the usual uninformed opinions, turned out to be the major sticking point in Ray's negotiations.
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TheBeastCoast
Registered User
Yes oh wise one. You are the first one to ever mention taxes when it comes to signing players in Toronto. You seriously wonder why you get push back on here when literally every bit of news you take as an opportunity to pat yourself on the back for absolutely nothing.Ignore the people who repeatedly throw advanced stats around. This year they proved to be no better at predicting performance and outcomes than anyone else. Go ahead and trust your gut. Part of the fun of watching baseball is not really knowing how it will turn out.
The issue with Espinal at 3B isn't that he's not good, but he's not THAT good. He fields, but he's a light hitter (so far), and the whole Espinal/Semien situation was a weird reverse of what teams prefer it to be where the 3B is the slugger. The Jays are just trying to preserve that balance, but with an actual slugger at 3rd. Espinal's profile makes more sense up the middle.
The whole left bat thing is really more of a superstition. When a team has this much elite contact on it (and they don't even have Moreno yet), you don't really need a left hand at bat. And for some reason they've forgotten about Biggio even though he was hitting well when he came back. As far as infield situations go, what they have plus Espinal and Biggio filling in whenever plus whoever they get for third is a pretty darn solid infield situation. Frankly, they don't really need some superstar slugger at 3rd. Get some defensive whiz at second plus the offense they already have and they're good. Where they should be putting their money is pitching.
Well, will you look at that. The thing I often say is a major issue with free agents coming to Canada, and people were telling me I was wrong about due to the usual uninformed opinions, turned out to be the major sticking point in Ray's negotiations.
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
- Mar 3, 2008
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It’s incredibly irritating. But to top it off he downplays all advanced stats as a predictor of nothing and baseless information and to “trust your gut”. This isn’t walking down a dark alley at night. But it does allow one to declare their pure genius at all times when you don’t have to have posted anything about it except for having thought it in your brain. Advance stats literally showed that taijuan Walker was pitching outside of his advanced stats and that he was do to come crashing back down to earth. Guess what happened.
phillipmike
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- Oct 27, 2009
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Three Blue Jays issues worth watching heading into 2022
1. Jays are keeping an eye on all player’s vaccination statuses as the Canadian government changes the rules. As of right now Davidi insinuates that all current Jays players are vaccinated.
2. The Jays are looking into major Rogers Centre renovations. A team of Blue Jays employees including Edward Rogers and the City of Toronto were looking into the logistics and costs over the last few years but that is on hold.
3. Davidi brings up Baerga’s post on Freddie Freeman becoming a Jay. It’s something to keep an eye on but he wouldn’t bet on it.
MarkusKetterer
Shoulda got one game in
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
I'd be curious about how they would manage to do Rogers Centre renos. There would be a limit to how much work they would be able to get done between November and early March and it's not like there's a prime alternate site for the Jays to play out of in Toronto in the mean time. Nor would it likely be feasible to send them on some grand 2 month walkabout road trip to stall for additional time.
Seriously, it's amazing stuff. The level of delusion is absolutely fascinating.
dredeye
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phillipmike
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What realistic trade scenarios could Blue Jays' catching depth open up?
These trades are so bad. If Seattle wants Kirk to pair up with Ray, they better give us Kirby.
What is SF going to do with Jansen when they have Bart and Bailey. I’d trade them Jansen for Bailey.
I’d do the Angels trade.
These trades are so bad. If Seattle wants Kirk to pair up with Ray, they better give us Kirby.
What is SF going to do with Jansen when they have Bart and Bailey. I’d trade them Jansen for Bailey.
I’d do the Angels trade.
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
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Yea the angels one is the only one that really makes sense and it really doesn’t address much of anything. No need for Reese anymore but one of the two big boys really are who need to go.
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
The Angels trade makes sense because honestly anything they can get for Reese is probably gravy at this point. The other ones less so. I laugh at the SF trade too because it involves taking back a guy who the Jays drafted and didn't sign. Wonder how well that would go over for Beede and the fans that remember?
phillipmike
Registered User
- Oct 27, 2009
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phillipmike
Registered User
- Oct 27, 2009
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- 9,178
Early offseason grades for every American League team: Rangers, Tigers, Mariners lead at the lockout - The Athletic
Toronto Blue Jays
Grade: B
Free agents: RHP Kevin Gausman, 5 years/$110 million; RHP Yimi García, 2 years/$11 million
Waiver claims: RHP Shaun Anderson from Padres
Extensions: RHP José Berríos, 7 years/$131 million
The Blue Jays lost Robbie Ray to the Mariners in free agency, but their pivot to right-hander Kevin Gausman should lead to similar production at the top of the rotation. Gausman, 30, went 14-6 for the Giants last season with a 2.81 ERA and a 1.042 WHIP in 33 starts. The seven-year, $131 million extension to right-hander José Berríos was the Blue Jays’ best move of the offseason and it assures them a strong rotation for the next several years. They did lose Marcus Semien to the Rangers in free agency, which is a huge blow on the field and in the clubhouse. The Blue Jays now seek to balance their lineup with a left-handed hitter or a switch hitter, and it will be interesting to see which direction they go to land one. They pursued the left-handed hitting Corey Seager before he signed with the Rangers, and don’t be surprised if they sign his brother Kyle Seager, another left-handed hitter, to play third base.
Toronto Blue Jays
Grade: B
Free agents: RHP Kevin Gausman, 5 years/$110 million; RHP Yimi García, 2 years/$11 million
Waiver claims: RHP Shaun Anderson from Padres
Extensions: RHP José Berríos, 7 years/$131 million
The Blue Jays lost Robbie Ray to the Mariners in free agency, but their pivot to right-hander Kevin Gausman should lead to similar production at the top of the rotation. Gausman, 30, went 14-6 for the Giants last season with a 2.81 ERA and a 1.042 WHIP in 33 starts. The seven-year, $131 million extension to right-hander José Berríos was the Blue Jays’ best move of the offseason and it assures them a strong rotation for the next several years. They did lose Marcus Semien to the Rangers in free agency, which is a huge blow on the field and in the clubhouse. The Blue Jays now seek to balance their lineup with a left-handed hitter or a switch hitter, and it will be interesting to see which direction they go to land one. They pursued the left-handed hitting Corey Seager before he signed with the Rangers, and don’t be surprised if they sign his brother Kyle Seager, another left-handed hitter, to play third base.
Not really thrilled with the idea of the older Seager but it’s still a decent bridge for our group of potential 3B’s (Groshans, Martinez, even Moreno) but Seager must be a short term deal. I heard the Jays front office was also seriously considering moving Moreno to 3B (they believe in Kirk and Jansen at C) and Moreno is a former SS from a few years back. Moreno could be a very legit 3B option.
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