Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Edition III: Spring Training Madness (Spring Training is over. Season starts on Thursday, Mar 30)

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Also I believe you need to win the ROY to get the draft pick compensation(along with the other criteria) top 3 in MVP or Cy Young as a rookie also gets compensation.

There seems to be conflicting info in articles. The one posted above says 1st in ROY, or top 3 in MLB/Cy voting during any pre-arb years(not just as a rookie), and says nothing about having to be on a MLB roster on day 1 of the season. The one below which I would guess is more likely to be correct as it's from the MLB website says prospects have to be on the roster day 1 and teams get a pick for top 3 in rookie of the year, or top 5 in MVP/Cy.


It's such a dumb system. I don't have an issue with top X number of rookies in rookie of the year voting receiving a full year of service time regardless of promotion date. That prevents manipulation for whatever prospects end up being the best ones in year 1. I don't have an issue with teams receiving picks for top finishes in rookie of the year voting if they roster the player on day 1. I actually like that because it gives teams incentive to roster best prospects on day 1. But telling me that We would get a pick for Tiedemann doing it(if we rostered him day 1) but wouldn't get a pick if say Horwitz won rookie of the year is really dumb. All because some random media outlets didn't realize how good he was destined to be.
 
There seems to be conflicting info in articles. The one posted above says 1st in ROY, or top 3 in MLB/Cy voting during any pre-arb years(not just as a rookie), and says nothing about having to be on a MLB roster on day 1 of the season. The one below which I would guess is more likely to be correct as it's from the MLB website says prospects have to be on the roster day 1 and teams get a pick for top 3 in rookie of the year, or top 5 in MVP/Cy.


It's such a dumb system. I don't have an issue with top X number of rookies in rookie of the year voting receiving a full year of service time regardless of promotion date. That prevents manipulation for whatever prospects end up being the best ones in year 1. I don't have an issue with teams receiving picks for top finishes in rookie of the year voting if they roster the player on day 1. I actually like that because it gives teams incentive to roster best prospects on day 1. But telling me that We would get a pick for Tiedemann doing it(if we rostered him day 1) but wouldn't get a pick if say Horwitz won rookie of the year is really dumb. All because some random media outlets didn't realize how good he was destined to be.
The first one is money and the second is picks.

Winning ROY or top 3 in MVP/Cy gets you $750K.

The point of the draft pick is to dissuade keeping top 100 prospects out of MLB. There is no incentive to keep a Horwitz in the minors.
 
The first one is money and the second is picks.

Winning ROY or top 3 in MVP/Cy gets you $750K.

The point of the draft pick is to dissuade keeping top 100 prospects out of MLB. There is no incentive to keep a Horwitz in the minors.

The difference between 50 and 200 is less than the difference between 1 and 20 TBH. I get if you're drawing a line you have to draw it somewhere, and 100 seems as good of a place as any as there are top 100 publications, but not drawing a line would be better. Horwitz might be an extreme example sure, but he's never going to win ROY anyway. If Pittsburgh is willing to keep the 90th prospect down for service time, they'd do the same to the 110th player, guys in that range are basically interchangeable. It's just giving needless power to media outlets who like to overrate certain teams prospects, or overvalue draft position. Players outside the top 100 can win, and can be in weird positions to be kept down. Look at Barger for example. He's not a top 100 prospect now, however if kept down all year I wouldn't be shocked if he were a top 100 prospect next year by most outlets, and with his profile and ability to hit HRs, and being on a good team it wouldn't be unreasonable to be in the ROY conversation in 2024 if he's our starter at 3B. With Chapman, and Espinal, and Lopez, and Merrifield and Biggio it wouldn't shock me if he's still a rookie next year as there's not a lot of playing time now. The Jays have more incentive to win than to try to game the system but the same scenario on a bad team rather than call Barger up in August they're going to wait until the next year because some dumb list says he's not eligible for picks now but will be next year. It's just a needless line to draw in the sand.

I don't really understand your first comment. I'm not really concerned what money the player gets. The more the better fine. I'm talking about picks. 1 link says

"A team is eligible for Prospect Promotion Incentive (PPI) draft picks if a rookie-eligible player with 60 days or fewer of major league service who is included on a preseason top 100 prospect list by two or more of Baseball America, ESPN.com or MLB.com is promoted and finishes high in award voting in any year before he is eligible for arbitration. The team would get an amateur draft pick for a Rookie of the Year or a top three in MVP or Cy Young"

The other said " Clubs promoting top prospects to Opening Day rosters will be eligible to receive Draft picks if the player finishes in the Top 3 in the Rookie of the Year voting or Top 5 in MVP/Cy Young voting."

The 1st one makes it sound like Manoah would have got us a pick for last year TBH. He was a top 100 prospect when promoted, and was 3rd in Cy voting as a pre-arb player, and it doesn't specify that he has to be on an opening day roster when promoted. They are saying completely different things. 1 says it's ROY win/top 3 MVP/CY, the other says Top 3 ROY, top 5 MVP/CY. 1 says the player has to be on opening day rosters, the other doesn't specify, 1 says it applies for any pre-arb year, the other doesn't specify. It's confusing. I assume they links were leaks the day the agreement was reached so the info is spotty but they are the first ones you find when searching. Concrete info a year later shouldn't be this hard to find.
 
I don't really understand your first comment. I'm not really concerned what money the player gets. The more the better fine. I'm talking about picks. 1 link says

"A team is eligible for Prospect Promotion Incentive (PPI) draft picks if a rookie-eligible player with 60 days or fewer of major league service who is included on a preseason top 100 prospect list by two or more of Baseball America, ESPN.com or MLB.com is promoted and finishes high in award voting in any year before he is eligible for arbitration. The team would get an amateur draft pick for a Rookie of the Year or a top three in MVP or Cy Young"

The other said " Clubs promoting top prospects to Opening Day rosters will be eligible to receive Draft picks if the player finishes in the Top 3 in the Rookie of the Year voting or Top 5 in MVP/Cy Young voting."
The first source messed up the two changes. The first source is quoting the pre-arbitration bonus (any of those net the player 750K) while the second is the rule for picks.
 
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Some funky things going on with that top 100 list. Things that immediately jump out to me are some very conservative ETAs (especially Brooks Lee, Ricky Tiedemann, and Zach Neto), and IMO Barger is probably more of a 3B/corner OF than 2B due to his arm strength.
Per the Top 100 chat, the ETAs are actually when they need to be added to the 40 man.
 
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Based on the write ups you'd think Tieds is ahead of Pfaadt and GRod and right there with Perez/Painter. 3 plus pitches and a slider so vicious there's no need to control it to get whiffs.

Cautiously optimistic about Barger but even if he moves off SS that power output could give him some Eugenio Suarez/Brandon Lowe vibes.
 
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Based on the write ups you'd think Tieds is ahead of Pfaadt and GRod and right there with Perez/Painter. 3 plus pitches and a slider so vicious there's no need to control it to get whiffs.

Cautiously optimistic about Barger but even if he moves off SS that power output could give him some Eugenio Suarez/Brandon Lowe vibes.
Arguably the best stuff in all of the minors.

The only thing preventing him from being top prospect is only 1 year of track record. If he repeats it, he's likely the top prospect in baseball.
 
Come on Scott, you have to be specific so people know you're talking about the airport. You scared me for a second



cover10.jpg
 

Basically, no rookie can be designated a hitter, meaning that they are pitchers. On top of that, they need at least 60 games of 3 or more at bats.

MLB has gone WAY out of their way to give an unfair advantage to whichever team has Ohtani (he counts as a hitter, allowing his team to carry 13 pitchers other than Shohei).
 


Check this thread out. First time I think a player has full out explained what transpired in his arbitration hearing.

This is a really fascinating read. I appreciate that both perspectives are completely valid, but I put a lot more stock into this kind of measured, analytical breakdown of the process than in the more emotional "They hurt my feelings and said mean things about me" responses we more frequently get from players.
 
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