Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season Edition II - Winter Meeting Madness

[dredeye]

Yeah Bichette is a top 5 SS and people act like he's easily upgraded. There's a certain section of the fan base that just hates him.

Bo is an all bat SS which is the concern many people have with Bo. He should be moved to second to help improve his d

 

[Langdon Alger]

That’s a weird view. He may turn out great in 4 or 5 years. The jays window is now. I hope Moreno turns out great for AZ and why would we care lol

In a way this reminds me of the New York Rangers trading away young good players like Doug Weight and Tony Amonte to get players to try to help them win a Stanley Cup. Sure, you can say why did they trade those guys because they went on to be future stars, but they were in win now mode at the time. Just like the Blue Jays right now.

 

[Puckstuff]

I’m not complaining about Varsho for Moreno and Gurriel. I think we almost had to do it. But for sake of discussion if it was possible to do Jansen + for Nootbar, that would have been better for LF because I wanted to keep Moreno. Conforto and keeping Moreno would also have been more preferable imo. So would Nimmo and keeping Moreno. I think with KK I would have preferred Reynolds as well. We’re giving up 7 years of Gurriel and Moreno. Varsho has some nice sneaky potential though. Below .740 OPS and this is a bad deal imo. Above .780 OPS and this deal is much better imo. I do think he has 30 home run potential potential with elite defence. He could lead the team in WAR. Hope he comes as advertised because we gave up a haul.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I’m not complaining about Varsho for Moreno and Gurriel. I think we almost had to do it. But for sake of discussion if it was possible to do Jansen + for Nootbar, that would have been better for LF because I wanted to keep Moreno. Conforto and keeping Moreno would also have been more preferable imo. So would Nimmo and keeping Moreno. I think with KK I would have preferred Reynolds as well. We’re giving up 7 years of Gurriel and Moreno. Varsho has some nice sneaky potential though. Below .740 OPS and this is a bad deal imo. Above .780 OPS and this deal is much better imo. I do think he has 30 home run potential potential with elite defence. He could lead the team in WAR. Hope he comes as advertised because we gave up a haul.

It wouldn't be good enough. We have 3 centre fielders who would be playing in the OF every day. That is absolutely elite. That's more preferable than having Nootbar and Conforto while keeping Moreno.

 

[canucksfan]

It wouldn't be good enough. We have 3 centre fielders who would be playing in the OF every day. That is absolutely elite. That's more preferable than having Nootbar and Conforto while keeping Moreno.

The best situation was for someone with control and younger to come in that can play CF. One reason I didn't want Conforto.

I wanted Nimmo but he has injury concerns and his contract is quite hefty.

 

[aight]

Why would anyone really care about what went in the other direction if the team filled a long term gaping need?

Last I looked you can't play 3 catchers at once.

I never understood this line of thinking. "We must win the trade or I won't like it"

Who is in your avatar? It looks like Danny McBride blended with Auston Matthews and the guy who plays Uncle Marvin on The Goldbergs.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

Why would anyone really care about what went in the other direction if the team filled a long term gaping need?

Last I looked you can't play 3 catchers at once.

I never understood this line of thinking. "We must win the trade or I won't like it"

Why would anyone who is a fan of a team not want their team to win a trade and by extension avoid “losing” the trade? Yeah, I don’t like a trade that my fav team may lose or is an overpayment.

And is it actually inconceivable to you that a fan would care which player went the other way? So cool, we got a nice player, let’s leave it at that because the inbound asset is all that matters, regardless of whatever goes the other way. lol, really? Why don’t we just send Vladdy out for a 32yo #2 starter because all that we should be concerned with is that we got a good starter back, doesn’t matter who or what package goes the other way.

If you don’t care about either of those things, good for you, immaterial to me.

 

[Kurtz]

I mean, this Varsho deal seems brutal to me. I can see moving Moreno/Gurriel in an all-in move but getting a guy who derives most of his value from defense when we already committed to Kiermaier and lost a lot of production in Teo seems dumb. Having an emergency third catcher is a nice bonus, but that's small consolation for losing our top prospect.

I initially felt the same way when first looking at the trade - looked like we gave up way more value. But the more I've learned about Varsho the better I feel about it - spray charts show that he could have had up to 10 extra homer runs playing at Skydome last year, analysts are calling him the best of defender in baseball, and he has a great attitude and plays hard all the time, which we needed.

And we get lots of years in control if he breaks out (a distinct possibility in his 3rd year in this park.)

 

[Cor]

I’m not complaining about Varsho for Moreno and Gurriel. I think we almost had to do it. But for sake of discussion if it was possible to do Jansen + for Nootbar, that would have been better for LF because I wanted to keep Moreno. Conforto and keeping Moreno would also have been more preferable imo. So would Nimmo and keeping Moreno. I think with KK I would have preferred Reynolds as well. We’re giving up 7 years of Gurriel and Moreno. Varsho has some nice sneaky potential though. Below .740 OPS and this is a bad deal imo. Above .780 OPS and this deal is much better imo. I do think he has 30 home run potential potential with elite defence. He could lead the team in WAR. Hope he comes as advertised because we gave up a haul.

Moreno is gonna be a stud, but this honestly a perfect deal for us.

Varsho is pretty much everything we’ve wanted. A Lefty that can provide offense while also being elite defensively. He’s young, has a lot of years of control left.

I want us to add another strong reliever and a rotation arm, but I have to applaud the job to rebuild the outfield. It’s personally exactly the type we needed. KK as our 9th hitter still provides net value given his elite defense in CF. Springer can play mostly RF, which should be easier in his body, and Varsho will pretty much single handedly make up for the offense Teo and Gurriel brought, while being so much better defensively.

Varsho playing C is also an advantage because it lets us comfortably play Jansen at C and Kirk at DH while not having another C on the roster, because Varsho can play extremely well in case of injury.

I dunno, I just think it’s a perfect fit. Moreno will be a stud. It’s honestly a trade that in 5 years fans will hate, but from a management POV, it makes too much sense and is banking on a WS win to prove it.

 

[MAB1]

Moreno is gonna be a stud, but this honestly a perfect deal for us.

Varsho is pretty much everything we’ve wanted. A Lefty that can provide offense while also being elite defensively. He’s young, has a lot of years of control left.

I want us to add another strong reliever and a rotation arm, but I have to applaud the job to rebuild the outfield. It’s personally exactly the type we needed. KK as our 9th hitter still provides net value given his elite defense in CF. Springer can play mostly RF, which should be easier in his body, and Varsho will pretty much single handedly make up for the offense Teo and Gurriel brought, while being so much better defensively.

Varsho playing C is also an advantage because it lets us comfortably play Jansen at C and Kirk at DH while not having another C on the roster, because Varsho can play extremely well in case of injury.

I dunno, I just think it’s a perfect fit. Moreno will be a stud. It’s honestly a trade that in 5 years fans will hate, but from a management POV, it makes too much sense and is banking on a WS win to prove it.

1. This is baseball, not hockey. Moreno isn't guaranteed to be a stud. Some of you hockey fans are forgetting baseball prospects bust far more than hockey ones.

2. Varsho is the best defensive OF on the Jays, he doesn't play C "extremely well", he's below average at the position. That's fine though because he would be your 3rd catcher.

That's one thing I am iffy about. Can he improve defensively enough to be at least average? We need better D at SS, there is no doubt about that. It is one of the most important positions, as you probably know. Great teams are built up the middle. Bo is a the only question mark for me.

It's funny how some people are projecting Moreno to be a future stud and all this growth in his future while Bichette (less than 2 years older) can't possibly get better at defence.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I mean the thing is we had 3 studs at catcher. Literally whichever one we chose to trade had the potential to be a top 5 catcher in baseball. But all 3 can not be top 5 catchers in baseball with the Toronto Blue Jays. So if Moreno hits his potential and becomes an All Star for Arizona it is really kind of irrelevant to us while we have Jansen and Kirk. If Varsho works out for us and he should that is all that really matters. Both teams traded from an area of organizational strength to fill an organizational weakness.

 

[kb]

I mean the thing is we had 3 studs at catcher. Literally whichever one we chose to trade had the potential to be a top 5 catcher in baseball. But all 3 can not be top 5 catchers in baseball with the Toronto Blue Jays. So if Moreno hits his potential and becomes an All Star for Arizona it is really kind of irrelevant to us while we have Jansen and Kirk. If Varsho works out for us and he should that is all that really matters. Both teams traded from an area of organizational strength to fill an organizational weakness.

 

[GreytWun]

1. This is baseball, not hockey. Moreno isn't guaranteed to be a stud. Some of you hockey fans are forgetting baseball prospects bust far more than hockey ones.

2. Varsho is the best defensive OF on the Jays, he doesn't play C "extremely well", he's below average at the position. That's fine though because he would be your 3rd catcher.


It's funny how some people are projecting Moreno to be a future stud and all this growth in his future while Bichette (less than 2 years older) can't possibly get better at defence.

People are allowed to have different opinions on the trade. Opinions aren’t binary.

 

[Puckstuff]

It wouldn't be good enough. We have 3 centre fielders who would be playing in the OF every day. That is absolutely elite. That's more preferable than having Nootbar and Conforto while keeping Moreno.

I would prefer 10 years of Moreno/Nootbar over 6 from Jano/Varsho. But it’s all good I like Varsho and their might be another gear.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

People are allowed to have different opinions on the trade. Opinions aren’t binary.

Wrong thread man, that’s not allowed here; dissenting or contradictory opinion hasn’t been “allowed” for several years

 

[DFF]

I mean the thing is we had 3 studs at catcher. Literally whichever one we chose to trade had the potential to be a top 5 catcher in baseball. But all 3 can not be top 5 catchers in baseball with the Toronto Blue Jays. So if Moreno hits his potential and becomes an All Star for Arizona it is really kind of irrelevant to us while we have Jansen and Kirk. If Varsho works out for us and he should that is all that really matters. Both teams traded from an area of organizational strength to fill an organizational weakness.

We didn’t have 3 studs.

Jansen is not a stud. Never been.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

We didn’t have 3 studs.

Jansen is not a stud. Never been.

You are wrong.

 

[DFF]

You are wrong.

No I am not. Unless stud mean average to below average everyday catcher.

 

[kb]

I would prefer 10 years of Moreno/Nootbar over 6 from Jano/Varsho. But it’s all good I like Varsho and their might be another gear.

The Nootbar thing was never on the table, soooo.......what are we missing? Pining over imaginary trades?

Odd that Kirk is not made mention of. 8 years of Kirk/Varsho.

 

[Dayjobdave]

I’m a fan of the team working hard to patch their biggest weaknesses.

no lefty bats was a huge flaw last year
outfield defense
high leverage relief
needed a starter
logjam at catcher

so far so good…

 

[GermanJay]

No I am not. Unless stud mean average to below average everyday catcher.

11th in C with 2,6 fWAR in 72 Games (with at least 100 Plate appearances less than everybody above him)

140 wRC+ (1st for all Catchers with at least 100 PA)

 

[TheBeastCoast]

No I am not. Unless stud mean average to below average everyday catcher.

No you are just wrong. You have no idea what a below average everyday catcher is if you think Danny Jansen is that. Venture out to a few other teams then the Jays from time to time would be my suggestion.

 

[MAB1]

People are allowed to have different opinions on the trade. Opinions aren’t binary.

Opinions on the trade and saying Moreno is a future stud aren't the same thing. I don't care how someone wants to view the trade. Read what you're actually responding to. My issue is insisting Moreno is headed for stardom like prospects don't bust all the time.

It's no different than thinking Tiedemann is going to be a #1 pitcher...it's fine to think that but there's no guarantee he ever reaches it.

Way to say something without actually saying something.

Wrong thread man, that’s not allowed here; dissenting or contradictory opinion hasn’t been “allowed” for several years

Comes here with an opinion not backed by reality/stats ->gets mad when told as such -> continues to stick to same opinion -> complains about opinions not being allowed when clearly they are if we have to see yours.

You can have your opinions, just don't catch feelings when people don't agree with you.

 

[Woodman19]

Comes here with an opinion not backed by reality/stats ->gets mad when told as such -> continues to stick to same opinion -> complains about opinions not being allowed when clearly they are if we have to see yours.

You can have your opinions, just don't catch feelings when people don't agree with you.

^ This guy gets it

 

[Eyedea]

Lot of people that don’t normally post in this thread had to jump in when their sports app news tracker told them the Jays traded away a top prospect.