Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season Edition II - Winter Meeting Madness

[Cloned]

Correa should pull a Semien and sign a one year deal with the Jays.

 

[kb]

Wasn’t sure but thought something like that, so we’re at a net loss for controllability and, subject to argument, number and strength of assets as well? Yikes. I like the player but do not like the trade, personally

There is more to winning in baseball than years of control.

Who has more immediate value to a win now team? Moreno (with Kirk and Jansen blocking him), or Varsho, who finished top-10 in WAR for outfielders?

Kirk and Jansen have 4 and 2 more years of control, and the one with 4 years of control was the AL all-star starting C.

This is a solid move by both teams who are at different stages of their builds.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

Correa and Boras have to be hiding something at this point.

100% they quickly took a couple million AAV and one year less term in a scramble and it’s a bad look

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I don't really see anything not to like about this deal. This team needed to sacrifice a little bit of offence to get better on D. When healthy, which hopefully will be a lot (knock on wood) an outfield of KK-Varsho-Springer is excellent. Top of the line. When you have 3 center fielders playing at the same time, good luck to any ball dropping in the outfield. Who cares bout Teo? who cares about Gurriel? We needed a culture shakeup. Those 2 gone is big, and we get that much better defensively in the outfield. This is a GREAT move.

Good luck with that. Springer and Jansen are made of glass, and Kiermeir has played in less than 100 games in 4 of the last 6 years. That's 2/3 of your starting lineup that's very likely to miss time with injuries at some point.

 

[canucksfan]

Good luck with that. Springer and Jansen are made of glass, and Kiermeir has played in less than 100 games in 4 of the last 6 years. That's 2/3 of your starting lineup that's very likely to miss time with injuries at some point.

This is a valid concern and why I hope the team grabs another OF. Hopefully moving Springer to RF will help him but KK and Jansen have missed a lot of time due to injuries last few years.

 

[dredeye]

Wasn’t sure but thought something like that, so we’re at a net loss for controllability and, subject to argument, number and strength of assets as well? Yikes. I like the player but do not like the trade, personally

We got the best asset according to all reports. We strengthen our team at a position of weakness from a position we had too much depth at. Very good trade you’ll eventually be excited about

 

[dredeye]

Good luck with that. Springer and Jansen are made of glass, and Kiermeir has played in less than 100 games in 4 of the last 6 years. That's 2/3 of your starting lineup that's very likely to miss time with injuries at some point.

Ironically Varsho addresses both those issues for us. Being a young durable outfielder who can also catch in a pinch. KK just had surgery to repair the issue that have been plaguing him the last couple years but he certainly has question marks attached to him. We do still need to address our depth which I’m sure they will.

 

[kb]

Ironically Varsho addresses both those issues for us. Being a young durable outfielder who can also catch in a pinch. KK just had surgery to repair the issue that have been plaguing him the last couple years but he certainly has question marks attached to him. We do still need to address our depth which I’m sure they will.

Some posters decide before Christmas to question the roster for the upcoming season.....it happens.

I think an add like a Grossman for the 4th OF spot would work (mashes leftys, decent OF, switch hitter). I just wonder where Merrifield fits now, and what his role will be.

 

[dredeye]

Some posters decide before Christmas to question the roster for the upcoming season.....it happens.

I think an add like a Grossman for the 4th OF spot would work (mashes leftys, decent OF, switch hitter). I just wonder where Merrifield fits now, and what his role will be.

He’s our true super utility. What I think they hoped Biggio would be but useful defensively. I think Biggio/Espinal will be the ones battling for playing time this year

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

We got the best asset according to all reports. We strengthen our team at a position of weakness from a position we had too much depth at. Very good trade you’ll eventually be excited about

Very good player I’ll eventually be excited about? Yes. Won’t change my mind on trade unless Gabe doesn’t pan out

 

[BehindTheTimes]

- Jansen isn't worth Varsho
- Kirk is a top 3 catcher in all of MLB, if you're trying to compete, you're not trading him
- I get this site is HF but y'all hockey fans coming here like Moreno being a franchise player is set in stone couldn't be further from the truth.

Objectively, Moreno is their worst catcher (with the most potential). They traded him for a player that would've led the Jays in fWAR last year and addresses one of their biggest needs (long-term OF solution w Springer)

Imo we undervalue Jansen big time. I’ve been a jays fan my entire life. Lol. Kirk is the guy I trade all day long.

 

[MAB1]

Imo we undervalue Jansen big time. I’ve been a jays fan my entire life. Lol. Kirk is the guy I trade all day long.

Jansen can be undervalued and also not worth Varsho.

Kirk is a proven all-star, you're not moving him (only a couple years older than Moreno) when you're competing for the division next year...it's not that complicated. We know what Kirk is, Moreno while having the potential to be better could also be worse. When you're contending that uncertainty can result in trading your 3rd string catcher for a long-term OF solution.

 

[kb]

Very good player I’ll eventually be excited about? Yes. Won’t change my mind on trade unless Gabe doesn’t pan out

Why would anyone really care about what went in the other direction if the team filled a long term gaping need?

Last I looked you can't play 3 catchers at once.

I never understood this line of thinking. "We must win the trade or I won't like it"

 

[MAB1]

Wasn’t sure but thought something like that, so we’re at a net loss for controllability and, subject to argument, number and strength of assets as well? Yikes. I like the player but do not like the trade, personally

years of control are not all equal. Varsho is proven, Moreno is not.

 

[trellaine201]

When I saw Varshi I love his athleticism! Looks like Mike Trout light.

 

[Dr.Funk]

Some posters decide before Christmas to question the roster for the upcoming season.....it happens.

I think an add like a Grossman for the 4th OF spot would work (mashes leftys, decent OF, switch hitter). I just wonder where Merrifield fits now, and what his role will be.

As of right now probably our starting 2B.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Hopefully this spells the end of the 162 game party team that they have had the last few years.

That collapse was in a nutshell everything this team has and lacks.

I think it’s been addressed.

More serious business … championship aspirations roster.

Burn that jacket.

Still need a SS

We have Bichette.

 

[Suntouchable13]

We have Bichette.

That's one thing I am iffy about. Can he improve defensively enough to be at least average? We need better D at SS, there is no doubt about that. It is one of the most important positions, as you probably know. Great teams are built up the middle. Bo is a the only question mark for me.

 

[Langdon Alger]

That's one thing I am iffy about. Can he improve defensively enough to be at least average? We need better D at SS, there is no doubt about that. It is one of the most important positions, as you probably know. Great teams are built up the middle. Bo is a the only question mark for me.

Fair enough, but the poster I was replying to said we need a SS. We aren’t in the market for one whether he likes it or not. Bo is our SS. Period.

 

[landy92mack29]

Yeah Bichette is a top 5 SS and people act like he's easily upgraded. There's a certain section of the fan base that just hates him.

 

[dredeye]

Why would anyone really care about what went in the other direction if the team filled a long term gaping need?

Last I looked you can't play 3 catchers at once.

I never understood this line of thinking. "We must win the trade or I won't like it"

Or that the player going the other way can't also be good and fill a need for them.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Yeah Bichette is a top 5 SS and people act like he's easily upgraded. There's a certain section of the fan base that just hates him.

I certainly understand the criticism of his defence. That’s fair. He needs to be better in that regard.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Very good player I’ll eventually be excited about? Yes. Won’t change my mind on trade unless Gabe doesn’t pan out

That’s a weird view. He may turn out great in 4 or 5 years. The jays window is now. I hope Moreno turns out great for AZ and why would we care lol

 

[dredeye]

Very good player I’ll eventually be excited about? Yes. Won’t change my mind on trade unless Gabe doesn’t pan out

So adding a player that had he played on the jays last season would have been our highest war player is not something you can get on board with because we traded a highly touted prospect for him? But if said prospect doesn't pan out then you'll be ok with it? Sound logic. No one wanted to see Moreno go but this is a good deal for both parties

 

[Wry n Ginger]

That's one thing I am iffy about. Can he improve defensively enough to be at least average? We need better D at SS, there is no doubt about that. It is one of the most important positions, as you probably know. Great teams are built up the middle. Bo is a the only question mark for me.

This team would be better if Espinal was the SS and Bo was at 2nd but that will never happen.

Regarding Varsho...

He brings a focus and intensity that this team really needs.
He is a pull hitter that will benefit from the change in shift rules.
He brings a ton of power. Look at his fly-ball outs spray charts overlaid in Rogers stadium, he could easily hit 40 home runs this year in the AL parks.
Our outfield defense is now one of the absolute BEST in the entire majors. No more shitty routes and missed balls.
He hustles to first every frickin time.

edit- Ohh! and he bats left!

Bottom line is I hope Moreno goes on to have great career but Varsho is what this team needs right now. Great fit.