Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season Edition II - Winter Meeting Madness

[Da Cool Rula]

Report: Mets have concerns with Correa's physical

Report: Mets also have concerns with Correa's physical

Once again, Carlos Correa's free-agent windfall has hit a snag.The New York Mets, who reportedly agreed to a 12-year, $315-million deal with Correa on Wednesday, have some concerns about Correa's health following his physical, sources told Ken Rosenthal and Dan Hayes of The Athletic. This news...

www.thescore.com

Aha

 

[thehockeysong]

It’s funny because the Jays were experimenting with Moreno at LF/3B/2B. His potential is basically Varsho lol

Well Moreno and Varsho are definitely not comparable at the catcher position. But I see what you're getting at.

 

[rojac]

this reminds me more of the cone/kent trade tbh

Maybe, but Cone was a rental for 1 month and a postseason.

 

[rojac]

Well Moreno and Varsho are definitely not comparable at the catcher position. But I see what you're getting at.

Yeah, Varsho likely only ends up going behind the plate in situations like Janson getting hurt (or ejected) when Kirk is DHing.

 

[Dr.Funk]

I'd like to take a second though to laugh and point at Scott Boras. He may be rich as f*** but he looks like an idiot here.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Steamer update has Varsho at 3.4 fWAR with a 113 wRC+. Gurriel is at 1.5 and Moreno at 2.0.

So basically a wash in value but they consolidated 2 spots for 1. If they could grab Pollock for like ~1/10 to cover Jansen/Springer injuries (Varsho sliding to C more often if Jansen goes down) then that would make the main roster deep.

I guess the Jays won't bother getting any specific 3rd catcher just for them to waste a 40 man spot and take away opportunities from prospects in the minors.

Perhaps there will be more opportunities for guys like Zach Britton to showcase themselves in the organization.

 

[Puckstuff]

lol, omg...

he could "easily" become a top 3 catcher of all time is one of the craziest things ive ever read on these forums.
moreno is great but he wasnt even the best catching prospect of 2022 lol.

He could easily become the next Ivan Rodriguez. Or could easily not

Ivan Rodriguez’s peak is similar to what Realmuto is now. So it’s not really that much of a hot take that Moreno could reach 6.5 WAR in his career. The consistency is obviously what puts Pudge on another level. Realmuto is probably going to the hall of fame as well if he maintains what he’s been doing.

 

[Eyedea]

Well Moreno and Varsho are definitely not comparable at the catcher position. But I see what you're getting at.

Yes I was referring to them from an overall value standpoint. Varsho can play OF (elite) and catcher (below average). They need that flexibility with Jansen/Kirk on the roster and were trying to see if Moreno could do that.

Best case for Gabby is Realmuto. Value wise that’s basically what Varsho did in 2022. We have him for 4+ years (under control longer than Vlad/Bo). Somebody on the board said prospects like Gabby never get traded, but a similarly valued prospect in Noelvi Marte++ was dealt for 1.5 yrs of Luis Castillo last summer. Yes they extended him for 5+ at a nice AAV but now’s the time to compete and ultimately Varsho provides the Jays what Moreno can’t.

 

[Dr.Funk]

How many years of control does Moreno have?

6

 

[landy92mack29]

Won't happen but there's a better chance Moreno becomes Pudge than Kirk is still catching and not a full time dh in 3 years or less. I'm good with the trade but just wish it was Kirk instead of Moreno.

 

[Eyedea]

He could easily become the next Ivan Rodriguez. Or could easily not

Ivan Rodriguez’s peak is similar to what Realmuto is now. So it’s not really that much of a hot take that Moreno could reach 6.5 WAR in his career. The consistency is obviously is what put Pudge on another level. Realmuto is probably going to to the hall of fame as well if he maintains what he’s been doing.

Yes but that’s best case, not what he could easily turn into. Realmuto is more than likely a 4-5 win guy anyway. Obviously elite, but 6.5 as a C is rare. Realmuto’s 2022 is the 15th best C fWAR since 2000 and a majority of those in the top 15 come from Posey, Molina, McCann.

I like Moreno and think he has that potential too but ever since he had that wrist injury his power has been zapped. In his SSS at the MLB level he was also chasing a ton and needs to work on his pitch recognition. That was part of Vladdy’s issues in 2022 too. Elite bat control and speed is one thing, but when you start making contact on pitches outside the zone you start topping pitches and getting easy outs (also evident by his high GB rate).

 

[Blitzkrug]

Correa and Boras have to be hiding something at this point.

 

[Dayjobdave]

I’m really excited about Varsho. Sad to see Moreno go but despite his other excellent tools his game calling didn’t seem very good. This might be part of why they kept the other two.

Indo look forward to balls being caught. Now, if Bo can either get better or move to Second, we will really be shaping up in the field.

 

[Woodman19]

I wouldnt read into dealing Moreno as some sort of issue with his game, its probably more so that he was the ask and we had ample depth there already so figured its better to bring in a 4 WAR left handed OF who improves our defense than have 3 catchers splitting 2 roster spots. At some point you got to cash in on prospects value before they start to depreciate.

 

[Eyedea]

I guess the Jays won't bother getting any specific 3rd catcher just for them to waste a 40 man spot and take away opportunities from prospects in the minors.

Perhaps there will be more opportunities for guys like Zach Britton to showcase themselves in the organization.

Yes Britton is an interesting player. An older prospect for his level but he performed well at every level including the AFL. Interested to see where they start him next season and he can be an option by 2024.

Also curious to see how Meza/Mesia handle 2023. They could be flops but usually catchers tend to start off a bit slow in the lower levels.

 

[phillipmike]

Depth Charts - Blue Jays | FanGraphs Baseball

Blue Jays depth charts updated daily with projections

www.fangraphs.com

Prior to the Kiermaier and Bassitt signings the Jays had a 47.2 projected fWAR according to Depth Charts,

With Kiermaier and Bassitt but before the Varsho trade it was; 48.4.

Now the Jays are at 49.8. So they added 2.6 fWAR to their team by adding Bassitt, Varsho and Kiermaier while losing Moreno, Stripling and Gurriel. Cant include Teo or Swanson because i didnt see the numbers before the trade.

So unless they add someone like Eovladi or make another big trade, i cant see them moving much higher than projected 50 fWAR,

One guy that hasnt got much coverage is Brian Anderson. He can play a great RF, cover at 3B and hits lefties very well. Jays were close to trading Teo to Miami for Anderson and a pitcher. He might fit too.

Report: Blue Jays, Marlins discussed Teoscar Hernandez trade

The Toronto Blue Jays and Miami Marlins had serious talks in November about a deal involving All-Star outfielder Teoscar Hernandez, according to Barry Jackson and Craig Mish of the Miami Herald.Toronto reportedly would've likely acquired third baseman Brian Anderson and at least one starting...

www.thescore.com

 

[TorMapleJays]

Hopefully this spells the end of the 162 game party team that they have had the last few years.

That collapse was in a nutshell everything this team has and lacks.

I think it’s been addressed.

More serious business … championship aspirations roster.

Burn that jacket.

Still need a SS

 

[Eyedea]

I wouldnt read into dealing Moreno as some sort of issue with his game, its probably more so that he was the ask and we had ample depth there already so figured its better to bring in a 4 WAR left handed OF who improves our defense than have 3 catchers splitting 2 roster spots. At some point you got to cash in on prospects value before they start to depreciate.

For sure, but we’ve also seen them move on from prospects before their charm fades. Martin, SWR, Hoglund, Groshans.

 

[Woodman19]

For sure, but we’ve also seen them move on from prospects before their charm fades. Martin, SWR, Hoglund, Groshans.

Oh for sure, but I more meant that I don't think every player we trade away is some ulterior motive where we know the bottom is about to fall out lol.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Lets say the Correa mess falls apart with the Mets as well. How much would you be willing to sign Correa for lets say 3 years? If they can't get anything long term

 

[landy92mack29]

For sure, but we’ve also seen them move on from prospects before their charm fades. Martin, SWR, Hoglund, Groshans.

Groshans raked after he got moved to the Marlins and was decent in limited MLB ABs so he's still promising. SWR was lights out this year in AA+AAA even made his debut. Martins lack of power isn't great but he still gets on base at a really high rate and crushed fall ball, seems like a solid future leadoff guy. Hoglund hasn't had time for the charm to fade.

I'm good with all those trades but they aren't bums now

 

[canucksfan]

 

[Zur En Arrh]

- Jansen isn't worth Varsho
- Kirk is a top 3 catcher in all of MLB, if you're trying to compete, you're not trading him
- I get this site is HF but y'all hockey fans coming here like Moreno being a franchise players is set in stone couldn't be further from the truth.

Objectively, Moreno is their worst catcher (with the most potential). They traded him for a player that would've led the Jays in fWAR last year and addresses one of their biggest needs (long-term OF solution w Springer)

Word!! Obviously losing Moreno hurts but you have to give to get. Not all teams are as dumb as Oakland... It's a fair trade.. I hope Moreno becomes an all-star for them. I'm not going to wish he sucks now so we can " win" the trade..

 

[Eyedea]

Groshans raked after he got moved to the Marlins and was decent in limited MLB ABs so he's still promising. SWR was lights out this year in AA+AAA even made his debut. Martins lack of power isn't great but he still gets on base at a really high rate and crushed fall ball, seems like a solid future leadoff guy. Hoglund hasn't had time for the charm to fade.

I'm good with all those trades but they aren't bums now

Groshans double his ISO, which is still terrible lol. I’m guessing he needs a swing change to really tap into that power.

 

[NyQuil]

Not a fan of this trade.