Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season Edition 5.0 - The Winter Meeting Chronicles

[Discoverer]

I read that AM 670 (Cubs radio station) is reporting that Fowler got 90M over 5 years. Though i havent read it anywhere else.

Glad the Jays didnt come close to that. That is and will be an awful deal if true.

Plus the Jays likely would have had to go higher since they're Toronto (though it's hard to quantify the effect that has on any given player) and they weren't able to offer him the CF job.

If that's what he ends up with, the Jays probably would have had to go into the $100 million vicinity.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

So is Ben Revere the next target?

Also how do you think the Jays will split up the starts at 1st with Smoak and Pierece?

 

[Discoverer]

So is Ben Revere the next target?

Also how do you think the Jays will split up the starts at 1st with Smoak and Pierece?

Hopefully not.

And hopefully Pearce starts all the time and Smoak can play when Pearce needs a day off. Actually, hopefully Pearce starts all the time and when he needs a day off they let Morales start at first and allow someone else to DH.

I'm actually fine with the idea of having Smoak on the roster, but I think after his 2016 struggles they need to keep his playing time low and only give him regular reps as he proves himself throughout the season.

 

[phillipmike]

So is Ben Revere the next target?

Also how do you think the Jays will split up the starts at 1st with Smoak and Pierece?

The smart thing to do is have Pearce as your full time 1B if he is healthy or your 1a guy and Smoak in a bench role or a 1b at best unless he is having an bounceback year. Pearce is that much better than Smoak.

 

[Cor]

Yeah, Pearce is fine as everyday 1B. Smoak can be the backup DH/1B. 26th man gives us the room to carry him.

I'd be looking for a LF, and a platoon partner for Upton in RF

 

[Cor]

Couple of options that id consider that prob wouldn't break the bank:
Trade for Cain - One year left on deal, price wouldn't/shouldn't be crazy
Trade for Melky - 1 year left as well, price wouldn't be high
Trade for granderson - 1 year left as well
Sign Brandon moss to platoon with Upton OR
Trade for Seth Smith to platoon with Upton

My ideal scenario would be Trade for Cain with Harold Ramirez+jon Harris
Trade for Melky for Reese McGuire

Lorenzo Cain - R
Devon Travis-R
Josh Donaldson-R
Franklin Morales-S
Steve Pearce -R
Troy Tulowitzki-R
Melky Cabreara-S
Russell Martin-R
Kevin Pillar-R

Bench
Upton, Smoak, Barney/goins, Jiminez/innetta,Pompey

I don't think signing a 30 year old relief pitcher to bat 4th is a good idea


In seriousness, I am down for Melky, but I don't think Shapiro and Atkins want to trade for two outfielders, so I think we'd have to go sign Revere or work with Upton/Carrera/Pompey to replace Cain in that lineup

 

[Eyedea]

If the season starts today (which it clearly doesn't), we'd have a team like:

LP Tepera
MR Sparkman
MR Loup
MR Barnes
MR Biagini
LOOGY Dermody
SU Grilli
CP Osuna

A cheap LF who hits righties and LF becomes something like Moss/Upton which is good. And we still have around 25 million that we can add.

One suggestion with the pen is that Bolsinger is out of options so he'd take over long relief.

 

[Discoverer]

Yeah, Pearce is fine as everyday 1B. Smoak can be the backup DH/1B. 26th man gives us the room to carry him.

I'd be looking for a LF, and a platoon partner for Upton in RF

26th man wasn't included in the new CBA.

 

[Cor]

26th man wasn't included in the new CBA.

Oh really?

Weird. Seemed almost certain it was going to be added.


Even then on the bench you can get away with...

4th OF
Backup C
Utility infielder
backup 1B

.. especially with a Steve Pearce, who can play LF/RF, 1B, and even 2B/3B in a pinch

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Making Justin Smoak disappear would allow you to get quite creative with your lineup. As we discussed earlier in the offseason, you could do things as so:

V. Right
1. Travis (2B), 2. Donaldson (3B), 3. Tulo (SS), 4. Morales (DH), 5. Pearce (LF\1B), 6. Moss (1B\LF), 7. Martin (C), 8. Saunders (RF), 9. Pillar (CF)

V. Left
1. Travis (2B), 2. Donaldson (3B), 3. Tulo (SS), 4. Morales (DH), 5. Pearce (1B), 6. Martin (C), 7. Upton (LF), 8. #Zeke (RF), 9. Pillar (CF)

Also, all the butt hurt about Fowler being such a perfect fit for team needs is weird to me. Devon Travis is a fine leadoff option, and last I checked, we have a decent CF (still hate you, Kevin).

By the way; what does a leadoff man usually accrue in AB's these days...about ~670ish ABs? http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...d=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=13862

#voteQuimby

 

[King Mapes]

And play him where? Even if you assume that Smock just vanishes into the aether they still have morales and Pearce primarily at the 1b/dh spots (I don't buy Pearce being a regular OF.) This was already a scheduling conflict with just morales in the picture. Now you have to shuffle 3 guys through those 2 positions with little alternative playing time options?

First? Though I guess the issue is can he play 100+ games at first. We could always deal Smoak and have Pearce as a utility player but I guess the issue is whether he can play on the field every day.

 

[Walshy7]

can someone more knowledgeable tell me if pearce is better at 1b or LF, it seems 1B from all I have seen

 

[phillipmike]

can someone more knowledgeable tell me if pearce is better at 1b or LF, it seems 1B from all I have seen

He can play both but he is definitely better as a 1B. He is an average slightly above defensive first basemen and a slightly sub par LFer.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

Making Justin Smoak disappear would allow you to get quite creative with your lineup. As we discussed earlier in the offseason, you could do things as so:

V. Right
1. Travis (2B), 2. Donaldson (3B), 3. Tulo (SS), 4. Morales (DH), 5. Pearce (LF\1B), 6. Moss (1B\LF), 7. Martin (C), 8. Saunders (RF), 9. Pillar (CF)

V. Left
1. Travis (2B), 2. Donaldson (3B), 3. Tulo (SS), 4. Morales (DH), 5. Pearce (1B), 6. Martin (C), 7. Upton (LF), 8. #Zeke (RF), 9. Pillar (CF)

Also, all the butt hurt about Fowler being such a perfect fit for team needs is weird to me. Devon Travis is a fine leadoff option, and last I checked, we have a decent CF (still hate you, Kevin).

By the way; what does a leadoff man usually accrue in AB's these days...about ~670ish ABs? http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...d=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=13862

#voteQuimby

I like Travis, but do his injury issues of the past 2+ years not provide some source of concern?

 

[Walshy7]

He can play both but he is definitely better as a 1B. He is an average slightly above defensive first basemen and a slightly sub par LFer.

thanks man, so if he was expected to be full time LF it would be bad news for the jays I guess

 

[ShaneFalco]

I like Travis, but do his injury issues of the past 2+ years not provide some source of concern?

Yeah for sure

 

[hoc123]

According to Ken Rosenthal, Fowler deal is 5 years 82.5 Million full no trade clause.

 

[Discoverer]

Making Justin Smoak disappear would allow you to get quite creative with your lineup. As we discussed earlier in the offseason, you could do things as so:

V. Right
1. Travis (2B), 2. Donaldson (3B), 3. Tulo (SS), 4. Morales (DH), 5. Pearce (LF\1B), 6. Moss (1B\LF), 7. Martin (C), 8. Saunders (RF), 9. Pillar (CF)

V. Left
1. Travis (2B), 2. Donaldson (3B), 3. Tulo (SS), 4. Morales (DH), 5. Pearce (1B), 6. Martin (C), 7. Upton (LF), 8. #Zeke (RF), 9. Pillar (CF)

Also, all the butt hurt about Fowler being such a perfect fit for team needs is weird to me. Devon Travis is a fine leadoff option, and last I checked, we have a decent CF (still hate you, Kevin).

By the way; what does a leadoff man usually accrue in AB's these days...about ~670ish ABs? http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...d=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=13862

#voteQuimby

I think we liked the idea of adding Fowler because, while Travis is a perfectly cromulent leadoff option, Fowler is a better leadoff option. He's coming off a .393 OBP, has a career .366, and has never had a season lower than Travis's .342. It would allow you to put Travis towards the bottom of the lineup and have a couple high OBP guys up before the big bats every time the lineup turns over.

 

[tp71]

Ken Rosenthal saying 82.5M/5 years with a full NTC for Fowler.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Ken Rosenthal saying 82.5M/5 years with a full NTC for Fowler.

That's getting into silly territory

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I like Travis, but do his injury issues of the past 2+ years not provide some source of concern?

Not for me, no. I actually have higher injury concerns for a 31 year old, 6"5 outfielder playing on turf for the first time in his career for 82 games.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I think we liked the idea of adding Fowler because, while Travis is a perfectly cromulent leadoff option, Fowler is a better leadoff option. He's coming off a .393 OBP, has a career .366, and has never had a season lower than Travis's .342. It would allow you to put Travis towards the bottom of the lineup and have a couple high OBP guys up before the big bats every time the lineup turns over.

Sure. His on-base is great, and you'd love to have a ~.390 OBP at the top of your lineup. But not at that cost, and most notably, not at that term.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

Not for me, no. I actually have higher injury concerns for a 31 year old, 6"5 outfielder playing on turf for the first time in his career for 82 games.

I would have concern for both, then. But fair enough.

 

[Amadeus]

Free Agency has taken shape. Most of the big names are now off the board. Not sure if there is any other venue the Jays plan on leveraging except for trades. And they have already admitted that their farm system is not strong enough to add impact players.

Looks like a year out of the playoffs to me. Why? I don't think the pitching repeats the stellar year they had last year. BP issues also exist.

 

[zeke]

So is Ben Revere the next target?

Also how do you think the Jays will split up the starts at 1st with Smoak and Pierece?

revere is not a "target". he is a spring training minor league contract invite for some team.