Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season Edition 5.0 - The Winter Meeting Chronicles

[Kurtz]

Why are we gonna be worse when we were led by pitching last year and our pitching got better with Sanchez/Stroman being a yr older and Liriano replacing Dickey? I'm confused

Well, for one, we scored the 9th most runs in the majors last year.

 

[Leaftors]

and just another FYI, WPA is exactly to a tee comparitive to a teams record. If the combined WPA of everyone who played on your team adds to 0 you finished 81-81. The Jays combined WPA last year(just added i up) was 7.99(which is 8, rounding cut off 0.01), the Jays finished with 81+8 wins = 89-73 record.

Take those 6 guys off the team last year and replace them with players who produce exactly average situational results the Jays basically finish 90-72, as hard as that is to believe.

Very insightful and factual posts, thank you for that.

 

[TribalPhoenix]

Why are we gonna be worse when we were led by pitching last year and our pitching got better with Sanchez/Stroman being a yr older and Liriano replacing Dickey? I'm confused

Stroman was a year older this past season , and he didn't exactly replicate his insanely good post-season effort. Another year guarantees nothing.

Which brings us to our bullpen. Unless our starters can throw 6-7 IP consistently, we're more or less screwed. Osuna is a fine closer, Grilli should be a serviceable setup guy, Biagini (in my view) is going to be a swing guy between the pen and relief as injuries crop up, and we then have a bunch of never-beens (see: Aaron Loup) and a bunch of hopefully-will-be (read: whatever AAA arms win the race in spring training).

Then we get to our offence. Morales will help, but ultimately, he doesn't replace what we've lost. He certainly won't hurt, but ultimately we're a team that relied heavily on the long ball. Unless he can put up something close to what we're losing, we're not going to figure out how to play small ball just because.

 

[Eyedea]

Well, for one, we scored the 9th most runs in the majors last year.

Fangraphs projects them to be top 10 again next season.

 

[teeder333*]

I am hoping these shills build a contact hitting team. I have to say seeing Smoak,Thole, Upton and Pillar swinging at imaginary baseballs just brings complete shivers down my spine.

Why on earth was Upton acquired is beyond me. Except for a brief patch of contact, that guy was just a Smoak clone.

Pearce is a contact hitter, I like him, nice addition.

We need more of these type of players and a lot less Upton/Smokes.

 

[Discoverer]

I am hoping these shills build a contact hitting team. I have to say seeing Smoak,Thole, Upton and Pillar swinging at imaginary baseballs just brings complete shivers down my spine.

Why on earth was Upton acquired is beyond me. Except for a brief patch of contact, that guy was just a Smoak clone.

Pearce is a contact hitter, I like him, nice addition.

We need more of these type of players and a lot less Upton/Smokes.

I know Pillar can be as frustrating as anyone, but he's an outstanding contact hitter.

 

[Eyedea]

Stroman was a year older this past season , and he didn't exactly replicate his insanely good post-season effort. Another year guarantees nothing.

Which brings us to our bullpen. Unless our starters can throw 6-7 IP consistently, we're more or less screwed. Osuna is a fine closer, Grilli should be a serviceable setup guy, Biagini (in my view) is going to be a swing guy between the pen and relief as injuries crop up, and we then have a bunch of never-beens (see: Aaron Loup) and a bunch of hopefully-will-be (read: whatever AAA arms win the race in spring training).

Then we get to our offence. Morales will help, but ultimately, he doesn't replace what we've lost. He certainly won't hurt, but ultimately we're a team that relied heavily on the long ball. Unless he can put up something close to what we're losing, we're not going to figure out how to play small ball just because.

Pen right now is more like:

Osuna
Grilli
Biagini
[Acquisition]
Loup
Sparkman (likely)
Bolsinger

That acquisition will be a lefty (Blevins, Dunn, maybe trade?). Biagini could be starting depth if they bring in another reliever, Barnes, because he has options, will probably be in AAA to begin the season. Tepera will be in Buffalo as well, which isn't terrible depth to have. Sparkman is intriguing, he should stick and actually be a pretty effective piece. Also Loup still has a pretty awesome chance of being a good reliever. Just because he struggled recently doesn't actually mean he's a terrible option to have.

 

[Doug Gilmour]

Stroman was a year older this past season , and he didn't exactly replicate his insanely good post-season effort. Another year guarantees nothing.

Which brings us to our bullpen. Unless our starters can throw 6-7 IP consistently, we're more or less screwed. Osuna is a fine closer, Grilli should be a serviceable setup guy, Biagini (in my view) is going to be a swing guy between the pen and relief as injuries crop up, and we then have a bunch of never-beens (see: Aaron Loup) and a bunch of hopefully-will-be (read: whatever AAA arms win the race in spring training).

Then we get to our offence. Morales will help, but ultimately, he doesn't replace what we've lost. He certainly won't hurt, but ultimately we're a team that relied heavily on the long ball. Unless he can put up something close to what we're losing, we're not going to figure out how to play small ball just because.

We may look at his season last year by the stats and say it was down year but I see a real testament to his character and desire to be best he can. After nearly missing the entire season the previous year to throw 200 innings plus post season ball and still be close to 4 ERA speaks volumes. He is a workhorse.

There are some options on the open market for arms to stick in the pen. Guys like Boone Logan, Neftali Feliz, Jerry Blevins, Daniel Hudson, Trevor Cahill, Brian Matusz, Aaron Crow....mix of potential breakouts and established relievers. There are options, that's all I'm saying.

 

[The Nemesis]

I know Pillar can be as frustrating as anyone, but he's an outstanding contact hitter.

Pump your brakes there he's not bad, but I would never use the word "outstanding" with Kevin Pillar when there isn't a fielding glove on his left hand.

He's an right contact guy, but he's also a chaser. Not JPA level hackitude, but more than you'd like to see outhe of a guy with his hitting profile.

 

[Discoverer]

Pump your brakes there he's not bad, but I would never use the word "outstanding" with Kevin Pillar when there isn't a fielding glove on his left hand.

He's an right contact guy, but he's also a chaser. Not JPA level hackitude, but more than you'd like to see outhe of a guy with his hitting profile.

Maybe not outstanding, but... his contact rate is very good.

If the concern is specifically adding better contact hitters, Pillar is not among the concerns.

 

[King Mapes]

Now that Fowler signed, do you think this means we try to get Eddy resigned?

 

[Mathew]

Now that Fowler signed, do you think this means we try to get Eddy resigned?

Unlikely we have holes in Rf/Lf jose fits perfectly with the current team an saves money to go out and sign a backup catcher

 

[The Nemesis]

Now that Fowler signed, do you think this means we try to get Eddy resigned?

And play him where? Even if you assume that Smock just vanishes into the aether they still have morales and Pearce primarily at the 1b/dh spots (I don't buy Pearce being a regular OF.) This was already a scheduling conflict with just morales in the picture. Now you have to shuffle 3 guys through those 2 positions with little alternative playing time options?

 

[tp71]

Now that Fowler signed, do you think this means we try to get Eddy resigned?

That to me would feel like a panic move. Not Eaton level panic move, but still one nonetheless.

 

[The Nemesis]

Unlikely we have holes in Rf/Lf jose fits perfectly with the current team an saves money to go out and sign a backup catcher

Except for the part where he increasingly struggled to play OF defence as the season wore on. His arm was no longer the huge threat it used to be and his range keeps on shrinking.

 

[hockeywiz542]

According to Pittsburgh Pirates general manager Neal Huntington, Andrew McCutchen will most likely remain with the team in 2017.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...trade-talks-featuring-andrew-mccutchen-fizzle

The winter meetings began with the strong possibility that the Pittsburgh Pirates would trade Andrew McCutchen. They ended Thursday with the star outfielder still on the team, with the expectation he will be there on Opening Day as well.

"Our intent coming in here was to have Andrew McCutchen be in our lineup going forward," Pirates general manager Neal Huntington told reporters. "No one changed that. It's unlikely someone changes that going forward. We're not going to close the door, but we're not going to be making calls."

Huntington said he talked to multiple teams at the winter meetings about McCutchen, but none of them were willing to meet his steep asking price.

"We took calls. We listened. We engaged," Huntington told reporters. "And not just on Andrew but on other players who are on one- or two-year contracts. As we will always do, if we find the right move and we believe the right move is to move the player, we'll move the player. If we believe the right move is to hold the player, then we'll hold the player."

"In this instance, obviously, we felt the right move was to hold the player and have him continue to help us win a lot of games at the major league level. ... We expected Andrew to be a Pirate. We feel great about Andrew being a Pirate. He's done remarkable things for this organization. We look forward to him being in our lineup next year and continuing on as a Pirate."

If McCutchen is with the Pirates on Opening Day, he might not be in center field. Manager Clint Hurdle told reporters on Wednesday that he talked to McCutchen at the end of last season about moving to a corner-outfield spot in 2017. The outfielder seemed to be receptive to the idea, Hurdle said.

 

[GoonieFace]

I have a feeling we sign either Revere or Melky Cabrera. The only trade scenario for an OF I can see is for a young controllable type (Pollock etc.) Given the prices so far, that option may be out the window as well.

 

[TF97]

I have a feeling we sign either Revere or Melky Cabrera. The only trade scenario for an OF I can see is for a young controllable type (Pollock etc.) Given the prices so far, that option may be out the window as well.

Acquiring Cabrera would fall under the "trade scenario" category.

 

[Cor]

Melky Cabrera is interesting.

How did his year go last year?

 

[ShaneFalco]

blundell pretty riled up on the fan this morning
I still don't think they let JB and EE (and Saunders I suppose) walk without making some big moves

 

[Le Cobra]

I really hope we get Revere/Brandon Moss, keep one of Bautista/EE and get some quality relievers e.g. Sergio Romo. Also Navarro as backup catcher

 

[GoonieFace]

Acquiring Cabrera would fall under the "trade scenario" category.

I thought he was a FA, my bad.

 

[Bob Barker]

What I don't understand about the chatter around the Jays this offseason is this idea that making back to back ALCS appearances means that they will be good in 2017.

I know there are moves yet to be made, but they could lose two core pieces (say what you will about JB) and they barely squeaked into the playoffs last year and then barely won an extra innings wild card game. This wasn't a team that won their division by 5 games.

Just doesn't seem to me like there is a lot of (or really any) cushion there. I'm not saying that they won't add more to the team to make it better than it was last season, but I just don't understand this narrative. Anyone care to explain it to me?

I agree that it is impressive to make the ALCS and I loved the ride, but I don't see why people point to that as a reason why the Jays don't need to be better than last season. I get the "it's early" but not that one.

 

[ShaneFalco]

One industry source believes re-signing Michael Saunders is at the top of their list of alternatives, although the Blue Jays have also expressed interest in Ben Revere and Brandon Moss. On the trade front, they’d take Jay Bruce, but right now the New York Mets are treating the outfielder as a commodity that can return an asset, not a salary dump.

“The meetings are definitely a time when things pick up and we feel like we made progress,” said Atkins. “We’re excited about adding Steve Pearce at the beginning, excited about a lot of the dialogue on trade fronts and free-agent acquisitions that could occur.

“It’s always a good time of the year for the momentum to pick up.”

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-exit-mlb-winter-meetings-business-far-complete/

 

[Le Cobra]

What are the chances of us landing a Sergio Romo? Are there any other viable quality relievers left that out frugal FO will go for?