Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season Edition 5.0 - The Winter Meeting Chronicles

[ShaneFalco]

Havn't heard a word about Saunders

 

[Canada4Gold]

Literally the only thing I've heard about Saunders

 

[Starry Knight]

I wouldn't be upset if he was back as a platoon partner for Upton.

Prefer him to Revere.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Saunders just seemed to have really **** poor reads in the field. And seemed slow and awkward

 

[SpezDispenser]

I wouldn't be upset if he was back as a platoon partner for Upton.

Prefer him to Revere.

I'm not sure why you would prefer him to Revere. Revere is lightning fast, which makes him getting on first almost the same as hitting a double. IIRC he didn't walk much here, but he still hit well for us and (IMO) set the table very well. Not to mention his range in LF was good if based on nothing more than speed.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Just reading this now but... No way in the word does Stroman gets you Goldschmidt straight up. That's a pipe dream

 

[TF97]

I'm not sure why you would prefer him to Revere. Revere is lightning fast, which makes him getting on first almost the same as hitting a double. IIRC he didn't walk much here, but he still hit well for us and (IMO) set the table very well. Not to mention his range in LF was good if based on nothing more than speed.

If it comes down to Saunders vs Revere, it should (and likely would) end the same way it did last time. Saunders is much more useful than Revere.

 

[Discoverer]

Literally the only thing I've heard about Saunders

He's been linked to the Orioles, too.

 

[Starry Knight]

I'm not sure why you would prefer him to Revere. Revere is lightning fast, which makes him getting on first almost the same as hitting a double. IIRC he didn't walk much here, but he still hit well for us and (IMO) set the table very well. Not to mention his range in LF was good if based on nothing more than speed.

He doesn't get on base enough, which makes speed on the base paths inert. You can get away with a bad on-base-percentage if you hit with a modicum of power, but any hit Revere produces doesn't provide much more value than a walk.

 

[Canada4Gold]

If it comes down to Saunders v. Revere then the answer is Pompey. Revere was ok but then was horrible last year, not an option you rely on, a minor league deal might be worth a shot but yopu have to get something else that's better. Saunders isn't that good either and you have to actually go out and pay for him.

We need an option better than both, and then if you're left to choose between Rever and Saunders for the last spot you sign neither and go with what you have. We have enough crap lying around already you can form production as good as Saunder or Revere out of Pompey/Zeke/Upton

 

[Leaftors]

Just reading this now but... No way in the word does Stroman gets you Goldschmidt straight up. That's a pipe dream

well, did you see what Adam eaton got?

 

[hockeywiz542]

Will the Jays land Dexter Fowler to help fill their outfield needs? Steve Phillips has more on that and Toronto's interest in Rockies CF Charlie Blackmon.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/video/how-will-jays-fill-outfield-needs~1012504

The Blue Jays selected RHP Glenn Sparkman from the Kansas City Royals in the Rule 5 Draft, and GM Ross Atkins spoke about the pick, and also discussed the need to continue to press for free agents and explore trades.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/video/atkins-shares-thoughts-on-rule-5-draft-off-season-plans~1012267

 

[SpezDispenser]

If it comes down to Saunders vs Revere, it should (and likely would) end the same way it did last time. Saunders is much more useful than Revere.

He doesn't get on base enough, which makes speed on the base paths inert. You can get away with a bad on-base-percentage if you hit with a modicum of power, but any hit Revere produces doesn't provide much more value than a walk.

I guess I don't understand for some reason. It's probably the advanced stats in baseball that I try to learn, but the eye test when he was in Toronto says that yes, he can hit! And his career batting average of .285 says the same. His career OBP is .320, so, I agree, that's not optimum, but the dude hits. 70+ hits in 245 atbats for us in a small sample size and 109 hits in 388 atbats with Philly before he was traded to us.

Year before that 181 hits, the year before that 184 hits (with 31 and 49 SBs too).

What am I missing? So he had a bad year last year...it would represent the first time in his entire major league career where he hit under .294 with the exception of his rookie year where he hit .267.

Is it his walks/OBP that totally turns people off around here on this guy (and I guess everywhere in the league if he's being discarded left, right and center)?

 

[Edo]

One thing I'll never understand on here is the huge ***** some people have for Pompey and insane amount of hate for Revere. It's .

 

[Bjindaho]

I guess I don't understand for some reason. It's probably the advanced stats in baseball that I try to learn, but the eye test when he was in Toronto says that yes, he can hit! And his career batting average of .285 says the same. His career OBP is .320, so, I agree, that's not optimum, but the dude hits. 70+ hits in 245 atbats for us in a small sample size and 109 hits in 388 atbats with Philly before he was traded to us.

Year before that 181 hits, the year before that 184 hits (with 31 and 49 SBs too).

What am I missing? So he had a bad year last year...it would represent the first time in his entire major league career where he hit under .294 with the exception of his rookie year where he hit .267.

Is it his walks/OBP that totally turns people off around here on this guy (and I guess everywhere in the league if he's being discarded left, right and center)?

He has an albatross of an arm, walked at a rate with us that he never has in his career, and his speed is neutralized by utilization (like Pompey's). Current projections say that Pompey is likely going to be a better hitter, which is why people don't want him (Saunders has some bat value, but extreme negative fielding value).

It's a case of better internal options.

 

[Bjindaho]

One thing I'll never understand on here is the huge ***** some people have for Pompey and insane amount of hate for Revere. It's .

It's not that people hate him. People don't want to sign Revere for more money than Pompey makes knowing that Gibbons will guarantee him playing time over Pompey, even if Pompey outplays him.

 

[SpezDispenser]

He has an albatross of an arm, walked at a rate with us that he never has in his career, and his speed is neutralized by utilization (like Pompey's). Current projections say that Pompey is likely going to be a better hitter, which is why people don't want him (Saunders has some bat value, but extreme negative fielding value).

It's a case of better internal options.

I think if Pompey ever puts it together and can match Revere's career BA, we're all going to be lucky, but if that's a legit reason why people don't want Revere, then fair enough, I don't know enough about Pompey's time in the minors to comment fairly.

Revere's arm wasn't great, granted, but it's not a complete noodle out there - and his speed made up for some of that.

Perhaps as a 4th outfielder/pinch runner then?

 

[theaub]

I'm not against giving Pompey some run but let's not make it like he's done remotely close to anything to make it a lock he'll significantly outplay Revere next year

 

[Bjindaho]

I think if Pompey ever puts it together and can match Revere's career BA, we're all going to be lucky, but if that's a legit reason why people don't want Revere, then fair enough, I don't know enough about Pompey's time in the minors to comment fairly.

Revere's arm wasn't great, granted, but it's not a complete noodle out there - and his speed made up for some of that.

Perhaps as a 4th outfielder/pinch runner then?

Pompey is a different type of outfielder. Projections from Steamer have him as a .261/.327/.383 (aka a guy who hits for a lower average, walks more, and has more power).

Revere won't be 4th outfielder because Pompey can also platoon with Upton.

 

[Neil Hamburger]

I wouldn't mind us penciling in Pompey to start the year - we need more young position players.

If he flounders, we could probably make a move for a guy like Jay Bruce (if he isn't dealt by then) without giving up many assets.

 

[TF97]

I think if Pompey ever puts it together and can match Revere's career BA, we're all going to be lucky, but if that's a legit reason why people don't want Revere, then fair enough, I don't know enough about Pompey's time in the minors to comment fairly.

Revere's arm wasn't great, granted, but it's not a complete noodle out there - and his speed made up for some of that.

Perhaps as a 4th outfielder/pinch runner then?

Revere's arm absolutely was a complete noodle. He bounced nearly every throw back into the infield/cut off man

 

[The Nemesis]

I think if Pompey ever puts it together and can match Revere's career BA, we're all going to be lucky, but if that's a legit reason why people don't want Revere, then fair enough, I don't know enough about Pompey's time in the minors to comment fairly.

Revere's arm wasn't great, granted, but it's not a complete noodle out there - and his speed made up for some of that.

Perhaps as a 4th outfielder/pinch runner then?

Yes it is. He made Shannon Stewart look like Vladdy Guerrero.

Also for all the talk about Revere's batting average, his complete and utter inability/unwillingness to walk destroys that. If all he's going to do is hit singles to get on base ahead of other hitters, then his singles really aren't any better than walks. and for that type of hitter, all that matters is that he gets on base.

Revere's career .320 OBP would've put him 9th on last year's Blue Jays behind (in order): JD, Bautista, Encarnacion, Saunders, Martin, Travis, Ezequiel Carrera, and Darwin Barney. And it puts him just decimal points ahead of Tulowitzki's down year. What good is that gaudy .300 batting average to "let you use your speed" if you still get on base less often than guys that hit 20 to 70 points worse than you?

 

[theaub]

Its as 'decimal points' away from Tulowitzki's bad year as it is from the highest single year OBP years from Barney and Carrera.

You can do a lot worse than Revere's 2011-2015 out of the 9 spot, especially if its costing you $3-4M.

With the way this offseason has gone though, this team better be aiming higher than Revere.

 

[tmlfan98]

Would Fowler and Revere be too expensive?

Also, what's going on with this bullpen? We haven't gotten anyone yet aside from maybe the guy we just drafted in the rule 5.

 

[TorMapleJays]

Longer EE goes without signing the better chance the Jays have at getting him