Off-season discussion

[habsfanatics*]

Therrien
DD
MArkov
Plekanec
patchs

these are the people i most want out of here.

So DD/MT and anyone who is good not named Price, makes sense.

 

[habsfanatics*]

At $5.5M Penalty Kill specialist is a dumb way of using your cap space in my opinion. Plekanec is a soft 3rd liner. At least Eller brings some physical presence.

I'm not going to reply to you anymore.

Cheers!!

 

[bsl]

So the evaluation some of us had with Markov a few years ago before he re-signed was right. The talent is still there but the legs are not. I think to move forward, Markov should be excluded from the Big Three. Sign Petry and get another Top D. I know it's not easy but we need to at this point.

I also debated trading Markov before re signing, and said no, but I was not completely sure, given that some D, very few mind, perform well until 38 or 39. I was right about his age, but there it is.

It was a risk. Habs, given that they needed a no 2 on a contender, may have lost the risk.

However Markov will still be very useful as a minutes limited no 2 or 3 next year, and he is a quiet leader, and has a lot to teach the young D.

Habs showed class re signing him and in this case I am not feeling so brutal. Players around the league notice these things and appreciate them.

It is inept offense from the top six forwards that lost Habs the series, not Markov.

 

[ClasslessGuy]

Play Markov for 20 min in the season and he is still fresh in the playoff

 

[Smokey Thompson]

Plek was disappointing again in the playoffs. But his 60 pts and his play in the regular season can't be understated. He's just not a #1 and especially not in the playoffs.

The biggest factor for the Habs this off season is to work closely with galch. He needs a trainer who can help him get into better shape and be more explosive and stronger on his skates. If he can hit his potential at C next season then we'll be a significantly better team.

 

[Big Lurk]

so DD at 48 point is also a 2nd line center in the NHL?

Kovalev used to have 5 points night followed by 8 games of assgrabing, stats can overrate a player easily

Kovalev still is our highest scoring forward since, 07-08. And I'd take him before any forward on the team. He's the only one who had game changing skills. I mean look at our PP! A bunch'o pee wees man

 

[bsl]

Edmonton might look at someone a bit more established...like Emelin. And considering Chiarelli is the GM, he's seen Emelin at his best when he played the Bruins. Maybe that'll sway him.

Chiarelli is not stupid, but he will be tempted. Hab need to dump Emelin's money to keep Petry and sign a potential 30 goal W.

Chiarelli will know that also. Still, he will be tempted if Emelin comes with something else.

Emelin for Yaks will not cut it for Chiarelli. He will want Tinordi, and I would say no, not for Yaks.

Emelin and Pateryn and Ghetto might get Yaks though, Chiarelli might listen to that.

I do not want Habs to trade Tinordi. I should have added that to my off season list. I still think his upside is huge. Cup huge.

 

[GREMLIN]

7. Play Scherbak in the top six from October next year, and keep him there. If Kucherov is good enough , Scherbak sure as hell can be, if not better. Tampa is in Habs division, be young, be offensive.

I agree with most of your points but this one, Kucherov is a beast, took him 33 games with Rouyn to reach 26 goals, Scherbak had 27 this season (65 games), NK was also one of the best players in the AHL when he played there putting up well over a PPG.

Kucherov would easily go top 10 in a 2011 redraft, I think you are underrating him a lot, it's unfair to Scherbak to expect such dominance so early in his career, let's see what he does in the AHL first.

McCarron will be ready IMHO

 

[bsl]

I agree with most of your points but this one, Kucherov is a beast, took him 33 games with Rouyn to reach 26 goals, Scherbak had 27 this season (65 games), NK was also one of the best players in the AHL when he played there putting up well over a PPG.

Kucherov would easily go top 10 in a 2011 redraft, I think you are underrating him a lot, it's unfair to Scherbak to expect such dominance so early in his career, let's see what he does in the AHL first.

McCarron will be ready IMHO

Fair enough. Good research and knowledge. But there is little choice now. Find the young wingers to counter Tanpa's young wingers, or be Calgary to Edmonton in the 80's. Because that is that is starting to happen.

 

[HabbyGilmore]

Here's what I'd do. I'd trade 3 guys. Might not be popular choices to some but I think they need to go. 1. Desharnais. Lot of people are calling for him to go so this one might make sense. Get rid of the smurf. 2. Plekanec. Yep... he's not a true 1st or 2nd line centerman and he misses the net way too much but he should get something of value back in return. 3. This one a lot of people wouldn't like.. trade Gallagher. Hang on here's why. Yes he goes to the front of the net. He's actually a great player and I'd be sad to see him go. He can skate and he plays a good role of pest BUT he's still and always will be a smurf. We need scoring player that can play in the playoffs and those 3 have shown they aren't playoff guys except Gallagher but like I said he's still too small to really be effective. Get something out of all of them an improve the team and if I was going to add a 4th it would be Markov.. sign Petry and let the old guy go.

 

[Whitesnake]

Don't know who we should get.....yet. But here are the players that needs to go based on performance and/or salary cap issues. 'Cause you need to sign Petry AT ALL COSTS.

Emelin
DD
Pleks
Gilbert
PAP
Flynn
Gonchar
Malhotra
DSP
Weaver

Younger kids I would also try to deal in a package to try to get better: Fucale, Lehkonen, Reway, Ghetto and Tinordi. Who I think will leave out of that bunch? Nobody. Most of them will be talked during the press conference as the ones that could help from "within". But they won't. Though Tinordi should have a real shot based on the d-men leaving.

Those guys are the miminum I would expect to see leave if somehow I would be waiting for some major décisions to be taken. Thank god I'm not expecting it and believe that the only guys that will leave are PAP, Flynn, Gonchar, Malhotra and Weaver.

Bergevin loves stability. As far as I'm concerned, this team is a little over stability in mediocrity. Unfortunately, people will be blinded by the regular season while they couldn't have more proofs that the offense is in a serious need of help. And if you don't want to take my word, take the players words. Take PK words, the guy we mostly all want to be the next C of that team.

 

[bsl]

I actually agree with almost all your points, except I could see this idiotic management team trading Eller instead of Plekanec just because MT doesn't like him. In general I'm not completely sold on trading Plekenec either, I'd much rather see DD shipped off for a bag of pucks. Unless we can get a bonafide scorer in the trade, it's a trade we likely lose.

It was assumed in my 9 point plan that DD would not be on the Habs next year.

If you look at my previous and subsequent posts, I am suggesting DD be traded for the picks lost in the last 2 years, from 5th to 2nd round, the best MB can can get for him. Then let Timmins do his job.

I in fact don't want DD and PAP or Prust traded for a player. I want them traded of lost picks. You have to keep drafting while improving.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I'd look into Patrick Sharp if the price were right. Same with Eric Staal and Radim Vrbata. I do not want Antoine Vermette, especially at 4 million. The dude was a healthy scratch to start the playoffs when he was brought in to be the 2nd line center on the Hawks and cost a 1st + Dahlbeck.

As a Canucks fan, two players I would give a serious look at that bring a similar game Vermette does, but at a fraction of the cost are Richardson and Santorelli. Both are defensively solid, excellent PKers, and in Santo's case, can move all the way up to the second line without skipping a beat.


1st (2016)
2nd (Becomes a 3rd if we don't make the finals)
Tinordi
PAP



Vrbata
Higgins
5th/Stanton



Scherbak/McCarron
1st (2015)
DLR/2nd



JVR



Desharnais



2nd or 3rd
--------

- Need to find a taker for Emelin.
- Sign Richardson

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Vrbata
JVR - Eller - Gallagher
Higgins - Plekanec - McCarron
Prust - Richardson - Weise

Beaulieu - Subban
Markov - Petry
Pateryn/Stanton - Gilbert

 

[jordy]

The Habs had a great year and except for a few bounces here and there could have beaten Tampa Bay ( I mean we hit 8 posts against them). From what I saw the habs are in need of a first line center. While DD can fill the role in the regular season when it comes to the grind of the playoffs I find he tends to shy away. I think there's only 1 spot for a smallish centerman on our top two lines so if it comes down to it, get rid of Desharnais and keep Plekanec (better all around centerman). Galchenyuk had an unproductive playoffs but hopefully with time and maturity he becomes a playoff guy. Aside from those two points we need another scoring winger...Dale Weise on our second line isn't going to work.

Overall a productive season the habs are definitely going in the right direction but just need to tweak it a lil bit.

 

[Whitesnake]

Bergevin not that long ago said that to take 2 steps forward...we had to take 1 step back. We'll hear about that too.

On a minor note, take down that No Excuses sign....it's pathetic to keep hearing those while being below it....

 

[Whitesnake]

The Habs had a great year and except for a few bounces here and there could have beaten Tampa Bay ( I mean we hit 8 posts against them). From what I saw the habs are in need of a first line center. While DD can fill the role in the regular season when it comes to the grind of the playoffs I find he tends to shy away. I think there's only 1 spot for a smallish centerman on our top two lines so if it comes down to it, get rid of Desharnais and keep Plekanec (better all around centerman). Galchenyuk had an unproductive playoffs but hopefully with time and maturity he becomes a playoff guy. Aside from those two points we need another scoring winger...Dale Weise on our second line isn't going to work.

Overall a productive season the habs are definitely going in the right direction but just need to tweak it a lil bit.

But it has to work both ways, as with a few bounces here and there, and a fine goalie, Ottawa beat us in 5 games. So we would not have had the pleasure to beat TBay in the 2nd round as we wouldn't have been there to begin with.

 

[bsl]

Here's what I'd do. I'd trade 3 guys. Might not be popular choices to some but I think they need to go. 1. Desharnais. Lot of people are calling for him to go so this one might make sense. Get rid of the smurf. 2. Plekanec. Yep... he's not a true 1st or 2nd line centerman and he misses the net way too much but he should get something of value back in return. 3. This one a lot of people wouldn't like.. trade Gallagher. Hang on here's why. Yes he goes to the front of the net. He's actually a great player and I'd be sad to see him go. He can skate and he plays a good role of pest BUT he's still and always will be a smurf. We need scoring player that can play in the playoffs and those 3 have shown they aren't playoff guys except Gallagher but like I said he's still too small to really be effective. Get something out of all of them an improve the team and if I was going to add a 4th it would be Markov.. sign Petry and let the old guy go.

No. It is an interesting suggestion and I admire your audacity, but no.

I am sorry but Gallagher might be the next captain of the Habs. They need a player like this to win cups. You are just going to have to trust my 40 years of watching Habs win cups.

In any case, there is still plenty Habs can do to improve the team without trading a guy that would take a knife in the heart rather than lose.

 

[bsl]

But it has to work both ways, as with a few bounces here and there, and a fine goalie, Ottawa beat us in 5 games. So we would not have had the pleasure to beat TBay in the 2nd round as we wouldn't have been there to begin with.

That is why you must have a great team, to counter bad luck.

 

[Matteus]

This is going to be my position this summer. I look forward to the debate:

1. If MB was brilliant, to show his confidence in the players and seriousness about the team contending now, he should fire MT before the draft.

Do this while good coaches are still available, and the best UFAs this summer would prefer a better coach, and to prevent the mess of having to fire him next Christmas when he loses the team, and there no good coaches available. I will remind all of you of this next January.

2. I will no longer engage in discussion about DD on this board.

3. Trading Plekanec must be seriously considered, in a trade for a scoring W. Eller is ready.

4. Trade useless or replaceable deadweight for picks lost the last two years, because trading them for crappy players is just repeating last summer and shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic, and no one will take them anyway: Emelin, DD, PAP, Prust, Gilbert. Mini rebuild. Give Timmins more picks to work with.

5. Sign Petry if at all possible. Overpay a bit if required. He is young. If not, sign another similar D. But go for Petry big time.

6. Play Chucky at number 1 C in October and keep him there. Habs will not find a no 1 C out there, and they need to spend the money/resources on a big time winger, RFAs, and still have money left.

7. Play Scherbak in the top six from October next year, and keep him there. If Kucherov is good enough , Scherbak sure as hell can be, if not better. Tampa is in Habs division, be young, be offensive.

8. Play McArron on line 3 next year and keep him there, unless he really struggles. Put him in front of the net on the PP, and keep him there.

Honesty I don't see point 1 happening, but I certainly wouldn't mind.

I'm with you on every other single point. I'm all for putting Scherbak and Big Mac on the fast track.

 

[bsl]

Don't know who we should get.....yet. But here are the players that needs to go based on performance and/or salary cap issues. 'Cause you need to sign Petry AT ALL COSTS.

Emelin
DD
Pleks
Gilbert
PAP
Flynn
Gonchar
Malhotra
DSP
Weaver

Younger kids I would also try to deal in a package to try to get better: Fucale, Lehkonen, Reway, Ghetto and Tinordi. Who I think will leave out of that bunch? Nobody. Most of them will be talked during the press conference as the ones that could help from "within". But they won't. Though Tinordi should have a real shot based on the d-men leaving.

I agree with your entire list except for Tinordi. No way. I think it would be a mistake.

 

[jwrocks1]

As a Canucks fan, two players I would give a serious look at that bring a similar game Vermette does, but at a fraction of the cost are Richardson and Santorelli. Both are defensively solid, excellent PKers, and in Santo's case, can move all the way up to the second line without skipping a beat.


1st (2016)
2nd (Becomes a 3rd if we don't make the finals)
Tinordi
PAP



Vrbata
Higgins
5th/Stanton



Scherbak/McCarron
1st (2015)
DLR/2nd



JVR



Desharnais



2nd or 3rd
--------

- Need to find a taker for Emelin.
- Sign Richardson

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Vrbata
JVR - Eller - Gallagher
Higgins - Plekanec - McCarron
Prust - Richardson - Weise

Beaulieu - Subban
Markov - Petry
Pateryn/Stanton - Gilbert

Vrbata is not the top6 winger we really need. Especially not at that price. While I do like losing PAP.

The JVR trade is steep, but in-division I uinderstand overpaying a bit. I'd Do the trade.

We can only wish that NJ would take DD. They'd win that trade hands down, but we need him moved more to open the C spot for AG and to break MT's weird man crush on him

 

[sharks9]

Therrien
DD
MArkov
Plekanec
patchs

these are the people i most want out of here.

If you thought our offense was bad before I don't want to think what it'd be like without him.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Vrbata is not the top6 winger we really need. Especially not at that price. While I do like losing PAP.

The JVR trade is steep, but in-division I uinderstand overpaying a bit. I'd Do the trade.

We can only wish that NJ would take DD. They'd win that trade hands down, but we need him moved more to open the C spot for AG and to break MT's weird man crush on him

You could probably haggle the price on Vrbata a bit, but he's exactly what we need. He has a similar skillset to Vanek except he can actually play defense. The important stickler is he put up 31 goals playing mostly with Bonino and Higgins. Way I see if, the picks we get for Emelin and Desharnais make up for slightly higher costs on Vrbata and JVR. We need good players now.

 

[bsl]

You could probably haggle the price on Vrbata a bit, but he's exactly what we need. He has a similar skillset to Vanek except he can actually play defense. The important stickler is he put up 31 goals playing mostly with Bonino and Higgins. Way I see if, the picks we get for Emelin and Desharnais make up for slightly higher costs on Vrbata and JVR. We need good players now.

How old is Vrbata? I don't give up Scherbak for him if he's over 28, and I don't give up Mac for anyone. Habs have to beat Tampa. Get it through your heads guys.

 

[Captain Mountain]

You could probably haggle the price on Vrbata a bit, but he's exactly what we need. He has a similar skillset to Vanek except he can actually play defense. The important stickler is he put up 31 goals playing mostly with Bonino and Higgins. Way I see if, the picks we get for Emelin and Desharnais make up for slightly higher costs on Vrbata and JVR. We need good players now.

Maybe, but Vrbata is a UFA next offseason. He's 33 and has hit 30 goals just twice in his career. He could be a 20 goal 45 point guy here as much as a 30-60 guy.

I have no problem with making big moves to improve the team now, since the Habs have a relatively stocked pipeline and most of a competitive core. They need more finish and they need more skill in the forward group. But Vrbata isn't worth a 1st and 3rd for a year.