Off-season discussion

[jwrocks1]

You could probably haggle the price on Vrbata a bit, but he's exactly what we need. He has a similar skillset to Vanek except he can actually play defense. The important stickler is he put up 31 goals playing mostly with Bonino and Higgins. Way I see if, the picks we get for Emelin and Desharnais make up for slightly higher costs on Vrbata and JVR. We need good players now.

Agreed 100% with the bolded part. Trading futures for players that fit our needs here for the mid term (2-4 season) is what we must do.

Although I do love the addition of Higgins. The value and the player types in that deal are a necessity for us. No argument. I agree that Vrbata is very talented and can score. But I just feel he is too content (and so are the Nucks) with him playing with the twins. Also, I feel he isn't as good a fit in MTL, especially because I feel MT is staying (not my preference, just what I think will happen). I believe that Sharp is a better fit, especially under this coach and system, and also for Galchenyuk who should be at centre.


I am also FULLY 100% behind trading DD....AND Emelin. Both are solid NHL'ers. Both can contribute, but we have better pieces already here and moving them opens up the needed reoster spots/ice time for those players to move into place.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

So the evaluation some of us had with Markov a few years ago before he re-signed was right. The talent is still there but the legs are not. I think to move forward, Markov should be excluded from the Big Three. Sign Petry and get another Top D. I know it's not easy but we need to at this point.

I said this last season but people gave me **** for it. He's not a #2 defenseman anymore, and we should stop playing him like one. I want Beaulieu-Subban and Markov-Petry next season.

 

[Habskrieg]

As a Canucks fan, two players I would give a serious look at that bring a similar game Vermette does, but at a fraction of the cost are Richardson and Santorelli. Both are defensively solid, excellent PKers, and in Santo's case, can move all the way up to the second line without skipping a beat.


1st (2016)
2nd (Becomes a 3rd if we don't make the finals)
Tinordi
PAP



Vrbata
Higgins
5th/Stanton



Scherbak/McCarron
1st (2015)
DLR/2nd



JVR



Desharnais



2nd or 3rd
--------

- Need to find a taker for Emelin.
- Sign Richardson

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Vrbata
JVR - Eller - Gallagher
Higgins - Plekanec - McCarron
Prust - Richardson - Weise

Beaulieu - Subban
Markov - Petry
Pateryn/Stanton - Gilbert

The first one seems ok. I don't know what Vrbata's and Higgins' contracts are. We get rid of PAP at least. Not sure I want Higgins really. And Vrbata's not getting younger, even though I admit he's good. Mixed feelings on this deal.

No way am I giving Toronto 3 first rounders, a 2nd for JVR. Kessel got 2 first rounders. As much as JVR is good, I recognize that, he isn't worth giving a 2015 1st, McCarron and Scherbak.

I'm more than ok with DD traded. No idea if NJ does this.

 

[PricePkPatch*]

We need a grinder with good hands.

The number of low-slot play there has been that we couldnt catch or shot has been staggering.

 

[Saundies]

It's time to trade a center. I really don't care who it is at this point, but it is time. If Galchenyuk is ever going to break out and be an offensive player, then we need to make room for him and it has to be now.

Plekanec - good in the regular season, brutal in the playoffs. This has been his mandate pretty much every year, and it seemed to be more pronounced in this series. Had a terrible game 7 last night and cost us game 3 with his nonchalant dump-in. Plus he has the most value out of the three so we'd get something decent in return if packaged correctly.

Desharnais - can't really say anything else about this guy that hasn't already been said, but obviously this would be the best choice just based on his usage. He's consistent in the regular season in terms of putting up offensive numbers but his usage by MT borders on insanity.

Eller - We've all wanted/expected Lars to break out, but it's never come. He's been one of our most consistent playoff players every year but can never seem to figure it out in the regular season. I think he may get a pass because he's being used as a third-liner and slots well in that role, but knowing this team he probably gets traded over the other two.

I've said this for the last two years and I'll say it again: Alex Galchenyuk is a centre. Put him there. Make room for him. If not, we're gonna end up saying he's a "bust" and trading him like Boston did with Seguin and watch him explode somewhere else in his natural role. Take the blinders off, Bergevin, and build the team right.

 

[waffledave]

San Jose is ripe for the picking. I would take any of JT, Marleau or Pavelski on this team and at least one of them is moving this summer.

Unlike many here, I have never been really all that convinced of these supposed "blue chip" prospects the Habs have waiting in the wings.

Guys like McCarron, Tinordi, Scherbak... I just don't see it to be honest. They might be NHLers but not impact players. Once upon a time people were penciling in David Fischer, Ian Schultz and Alexander Avstin as sure-fire future impact players too.

Other players like Andrighetto, Reway, Hudon are too small. I think out of all of them, Hudon is the best prospect on the team but he cannot stay healthy and is small. Another small gritty player. The others won't make it here.

Time to move some of these prospects for some real players, before they lose what value they have.

 

[DAChampion]

Would it be suicide for the team to discard both Plekanec and Desespoir this offseason and start next season with a centre line of:

Galchenyuk
Eller
De La Rose
Mitchell
?

 

[waffledave]

Would it be suicide for the team to discard both Plekanec and Desespoir this offseason and start next season with a centre line of:

Galchenyuk
Eller
De La Rose
Mitchell
?

Yes.

 

[jwrocks1]

San Jose is ripe for the picking. I would take any of JT, Marleau or Pavelski on this team and at least one of them is moving this summer.

Unlike many here, I have never been really all that convinced of these supposed "blue chip" prospects the Habs have waiting in the wings.

Guys like McCarron, Tinordi, Scherbak... I just don't see it to be honest. They might be NHLers but not impact players. Once upon a time people were penciling in David Fischer, Ian Schultz and Alexander Avstin as sure-fire future impact players too.

Other players like Andrighetto, Reway, Hudon are too small. I think out of all of them, Hudon is the best prospect on the team but he cannot stay healthy and is small. Another small gritty player. The others won't make it here.

Time to move some of these prospects for some real players, before they lose what value they have.

I'd like to see JT here (added bonus....to troll Bruin fans), But I also believe we need Galch at C. So Pleks AND DD would need to move.

However, that doesn't adress our other glaring need. A top 6 RW, and, if Galch is at C, a 2nd line LW (where we need to hold onto a couple prospects that we feel can step into that role)

 

[Andy]

Would it be suicide for the team to discard both Plekanec and Desespoir this offseason and start next season with a centre line of:

Galchenyuk
Eller
De La Rose
Mitchell
?

The team made an error by not putting Chucky at centre in soft minutes and not grooming Eller to take over Plekanec. This process should have started last season. Instead, the team went status quo and continued to invest time in a diminutive, average offensive centre, while MT used Eller as a scapegoat to rally his team.

Not grooming Eller and Galchenyuk was the biggest mistake the team has made in the past year. Now we're unsure whether either could handle an increase in responsibility without some significant bumps and bruises along the way at a time where we need them to take that responsibility.

 

[JayKing]

Changes I want to see next season:

1. Galchenyuk as a full time center
2. Get a top line RW to push down Gallagher and Parenteau on the depth chart
3. Re-sign Jeff Petry

4. Beaulieu becoming a regular fixture on the PP
5. Finding a replacement for Galchenyuk on the 2nd line LW spot wherever it's in house (Hudon? Andrighetto? Scherbak?) or through trade/free agency.

6. Try to upgrade the center core in general (mainly Desharnais)

 

[Captain Mountain]

San Jose is ripe for the picking. I would take any of JT, Marleau or Pavelski on this team and at least one of them is moving this summer.

Unlike many here, I have never been really all that convinced of these supposed "blue chip" prospects the Habs have waiting in the wings.

Guys like McCarron, Tinordi, Scherbak... I just don't see it to be honest. They might be NHLers but not impact players. Once upon a time people were penciling in David Fischer, Ian Schultz and Alexander Avstin as sure-fire future impact players too.

Other players like Andrighetto, Reway, Hudon are too small. I think out of all of them, Hudon is the best prospect on the team but he cannot stay healthy and is small. Another small gritty player. The others won't make it here.

Time to move some of these prospects for some real players, before they lose what value they have.

Marleau is not half the player he once was. Thornton is, but won't waive his NMC. Pavs is great, but I don't see him being moved.

 

[CupInSIX]

It's time to trade a center. I really don't care who it is at this point, but it is time. If Galchenyuk is ever going to break out and be an offensive player, then we need to make room for him and it has to be now.

Plekanec - good in the regular season, brutal in the playoffs. This has been his mandate pretty much every year, and it seemed to be more pronounced in this series. Had a terrible game 7 last night and cost us game 3 with his nonchalant dump-in. Plus he has the most value out of the three so we'd get something decent in return if packaged correctly.

Desharnais - can't really say anything else about this guy that hasn't already been said, but obviously this would be the best choice just based on his usage. He's consistent in the regular season in terms of putting up offensive numbers but his usage by MT borders on insanity.

Eller - We've all wanted/expected Lars to break out, but it's never come. He's been one of our most consistent playoff players every year but can never seem to figure it out in the regular season. I think he may get a pass because he's being used as a third-liner and slots well in that role, but knowing this team he probably gets traded over the other two.

I've said this for the last two years and I'll say it again: Alex Galchenyuk is a centre. Put him there. Make room for him. If not, we're gonna end up saying he's a "bust" and trading him like Boston did with Seguin and watch him explode somewhere else in his natural role. Take the blinders off, Bergevin, and build the team right.

Well there definitely needs to be some new blood in the mix next year. It was refreshing to see Galchenyuk as top line C, didn't put up a lot of points but they definitely looked more dangerous. It was refreshing to see DLR as 3rd line C, again, didn't put up the points but the defensive game was strong.

It doesn't need to be a major change but something that says 'we're not satisfied with 1-0 wins with 2 smurfs and an underachiever'

 

[jwrocks1]

Well there definitely needs to be some new blood in the mix next year. It was refreshing to see Galchenyuk as top line C, didn't put up a lot of points but they definitely looked more dangerous. It was refreshing to see DLR as 3rd line C, again, didn't put up the points but the defensive game was strong.

It doesn't need to be a major change but something that says 'we're not satisfied with 1-0 wins with 2 smurfs and an underachiever'

Didn't AG put up 10 pts in 12 Games as the #1C, with a positive +/- ?

 

[417]

The team made an error by not putting Chucky at centre in soft minutes and not grooming Eller to take over Plekanec. This process should have started last season. Instead, the team went status quo and continued to invest time in a diminutive, average offensive centre, while MT used Eller as a scapegoat to rally his team.

Not grooming Eller and Galchenyuk was the biggest mistake the team has made in the past year. Now we're unsure whether either could handle an increase in responsibility without some significant bumps and bruises along the way at a time where we need them to take that responsibility.

No reason to be unsure, there WILL be bumps and bruises just like there are bumps and bruises currently with Desharnais, Plekanec as our top 2 centers.

The question is whether or not the head coach is willing to live with Galchenyuk/Eller's mistakes as much as he is willing to live with Desharnais/Plekanec's mistakes.

There's absolutely no reason to think that Galchenyuk couldn't play the role Desharnais plays, same with Eller in regards to Plekanec's role.

 

[CupInSIX]

Didn't AG put up 10 pts in 12 Games as the #1C, with a positive +/- ?

No idea. All I remember is the team struggled to score for a stretch of 2-3 games, and then people said Alex begged and pleaded to go back to 2nd line LW.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

How old is Vrbata? I don't give up Scherbak for him if he's over 28, and I don't give up Mac for anyone. Habs have to beat Tampa. Get it through your heads guys.

He's 33, but it was Tinordi going back for Vrbata. Scherbak/McCarron were apart of the JVR trade. And the roster I posted would beat Tampa. Vrbata, JVR and Higgins add roughly 160 points between them, while we only lose less than half that by dumping Desharnais and PAP. The additions of Higgins and Richardson/Santorelli also give us two excellent PKers, thus removing Prust from having any role above the fourth line. Higgins is also a puck possession fiend, albeit he can't score much. We don't need him to though.

Maybe, but Vrbata is a UFA next offseason. He's 33 and has hit 30 goals just twice in his career. He could be a 20 goal 45 point guy here as much as a 30-60 guy.

I have no problem with making big moves to improve the team now, since the Habs have a relatively stocked pipeline and most of a competitive core. They need more finish and they need more skill in the forward group. But Vrbata isn't worth a 1st and 3rd for a year.

Possibly, but considering who he played with this season. I think 60 is a safer bet. Trust me, Bonino is very average.

I disagree. Our 1st is 23rd overall, which means the likelihood of drafting a good player a slim. Even if the pick did turn out, it wouldn't provide dividends for 4-5 years. The way I see it, the late first and Tinordi gets us Vrbata while paying Vancouver to take PAP. The 2/3rd is for Higgins. Personally, I would try and get Stanton as he's a stay at home LHD we could re-sign for cheap (he's a RFA). That way if Pateryn struggles, we have options.

Agreed 100% with the bolded part. Trading futures for players that fit our needs here for the mid term (2-4 season) is what we must do.

Although I do love the addition of Higgins. The value and the player types in that deal are a necessity for us. No argument. I agree that Vrbata is very talented and can score. But I just feel he is too content (and so are the Nucks) with him playing with the twins. Also, I feel he isn't as good a fit in MTL, especially because I feel MT is staying (not my preference, just what I think will happen). I believe that Sharp is a better fit, especially under this coach and system, and also for Galchenyuk who should be at centre.


I am also FULLY 100% behind trading DD....AND Emelin. Both are solid NHL'ers. Both can contribute, but we have better pieces already here and moving them opens up the needed reoster spots/ice time for those players to move into place.

I'll give you, Sharp could be a better fit due to Therrien's 'system', though I have the faint hope if Bergevin started getting skill players, things might change. The issue with Sharp, however, is Chicago cannot take back any salary. Not to mention he struggled significantly this season. So I'd be a little on the fence getting him.

 

[jwrocks1]

No reason to be unsure, there WILL be bumps and bruises just like there are bumps and bruises currently with Desharnais, Plekanec as our top 2 centers.

The question is whether or not the head coach is willing to live with Galchenyuk/Eller's mistakes as much as he is willing to live with Desharnais/Plekanec's mistakes.

There's absolutely no reason to think that Galchenyuk couldn't play the role Desharnais plays, same with Eller in regards to Plekanec's role.

My question rests with Eller. Can we reasonably expect him to play as well defensively while generating similar offence in the regular season that Pleks does?

I think Eller has proven he is nearly equal defensively, but offesively in the Rg Season, I just can't see it. Now, the real question for me is, would that change if we got a top 6 winger in a deal for Pleks?


I am all for moving DD to make room for AG. We would need to replace him at 2nd line LW. Is that a spot that a young guy can fill? perhaps. But I would prefer trading for a know veteran player and leaving the 3rd line open to that experiment.

 

[Andy]

No reason to be unsure, there WILL be bumps and bruises just like there are bumps and bruises currently with Desharnais, Plekanec as our top 2 centers.

Good point.

 

[Blood On The Ice]

The team made an error by not putting Chucky at centre in soft minutes and not grooming Eller to take over Plekanec. This process should have started last season. Instead, the team went status quo and continued to invest time in a diminutive, average offensive centre, while MT used Eller as a scapegoat to rally his team.

Not grooming Eller and Galchenyuk was the biggest mistake the team has made in the past year. Now we're unsure whether either could handle an increase in responsibility without some significant bumps and bruises along the way at a time where we need them to take that responsibility.

This.

Bergevin was talking about a transition year. It was the perfect timing for developping Galchenyuk at center. Easy minutes, some PP, a little stretch at center here and there.

At the beginning of the season I was saying that by the end of it, Galchenyuk would be our #1 center. Too optimistic I guess.

Busy summer for him IMO. This team ahs to be built around Price, Subban and Patches.

We are now entering the win-now mode.

 

[Milhouse40]

Would it be suicide for the team to discard both Plekanec and Desespoir this offseason and start next season with a centre line of:

Galchenyuk
Eller
De La Rose
Mitchell
?

6'1", 21yo
6'2", 25yo
6'2", 20yo

That's a young center line with size, speed, grit and a good investment for the future.
It's dangerous, but considering the experience of all of them....it could be great considering what we get in return of Plekanec.

 

[CupInSIX]

My question rests with Eller. Can we reasonably expect him to play as well defensively while generating similar offence in the regular season that Pleks does?

I think Eller has proven he is nearly equal defensively, but offesively in the Rg Season, I just can't see it. Now, the real question for me is, would that change if we got a top 6 winger in a deal for Pleks?


I am all for moving DD to make room for AG. We would need to replace him at 2nd line LW. Is that a spot that a young guy can fill? perhaps. But I would prefer trading for a know veteran player and leaving the 3rd line open to that experiment.

Asking MT to trust Eller is like asking an old white lady not to watch her purse in Harlem.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Would it be suicide for the team to discard both Plekanec and Desespoir this offseason and start next season with a centre line of:

Galchenyuk
Eller
De La Rose
Mitchell
?

Absolutely. DLR is horrendous at faceoffs and frankly, not a good center as a whole. Galchenyuk is still learning as well, thanks to poor roster choices. Andy more or less summed it up.

 

[ProspectsSTC]

Isn't our pick 25/26 depending on the game tonight?

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

The first one seems ok. I don't know what Vrbata's and Higgins' contracts are. We get rid of PAP at least. Not sure I want Higgins really. And Vrbata's not getting younger, even though I admit he's good. Mixed feelings on this deal.

No way am I giving Toronto 3 first rounders, a 2nd for JVR. Kessel got 2 first rounders. As much as JVR is good, I recognize that, he isn't worth giving a 2015 1st, McCarron and Scherbak.

I'm more than ok with DD traded. No idea if NJ does this.

The JVR trade was for 1st + Scherbak/McCarron + DLR/2nd

The slash means one or the other, not both.