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Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season discussion: Two signings. Rinse, Repeat add 1.

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Canada4Gold said:
How bad must Orelvis be defensively at 3rd? He played mostly SS and 3B coming through the system. By all reports he was marginal at SS but should be able to handle 3rd. He gets 1 level short of the major league team and is the teams best hitting prospect as the high profile 3B we have goes to FA and we have a gaping hole there and as this is happening they move him to 2B where we have a few guys already. The very obvious thing to do is try to see if he can fill that hole at 3rd. The front office isn't dumb. They might be very risk averse but they're not dumb. Their internal evaluations of him at 3rd must be so bad.

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I think you are seeing this backwards.

I think Orelvis is the long term 2B solution if he makes it (and pushes one of the other guys out)

Barger/Palmegiani would be the 3B solution.

Schneider is likely the best of the rest but if he fully establishes, he's more likely a long term LF (who can play 2B) since OF is the club's weak spot long term.
 
Bjindaho said:
I think you are seeing this backwards.

I think Orelvis is the long term 2B solution if he makes it (and pushes one of the other guys out)

Barger/Palmegiani would be the 3B solution.

Schneider is likely the best of the rest but if he fully establishes, he's more likely a long term LF (who can play 2B) since OF is the club's weak spot long term.
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IDK. 3rd is more difficult to handle than 2nd. Usually teams moves guys from SS to 3rd to 2nd as they see what positions they're capable to sticking at. They've simultaneously moved Barger to the outfield as they did this last year though thankfully they appear willing to try him at 3rd still. Prospects bust a lot. As much as I like them the odds that Palmegiani or Barger are able to reach a level that's better than Schneider or Biggio are worse than 50/50. You have a couple league average 2B already. You just had to spend 15 million to get a below average 3B. You don't move your best hitting prospect to 2B to replace a league average guy because you have a guy in the mid teens in your prospect ranking who might be able to man 3rd at some point.

Unless the plan is secretly to sign Matt Chapman back of course.
 
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Canada4Gold said:
IDK. 3rd is more difficult to handle than 2nd. Usually teams moves guys from SS to 3rd to 2nd as they see what positions they're capable to sticking at. They've simultaneously moved Barger to the outfield as they did this last year though thankfully they appear willing to try him at 3rd still. Prospects bust a lot. As much as I like them the odds that Palmegiani or Barger are able to reach a level that's better than Schneider or Biggio are worse than 50/50. You have a couple league average 2B already. You just had to spend 15 million to get a below average 3B. You don't move your best hitting prospect to 2B to replace a league average guy because you have a guy in the mid teens in your prospect ranking who might be able to man 3rd at some point.
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This is a short term vs long term issue.

Orelvis's weaknesses are all related to how quickly he processes (and his straight line speed), which short term can be mitigated by moving him to 2nd where he has more time. They can test out his reactions at the MLB level to see if he can handle 3B.

We don't know what the final product looks like and these guys are blocked for a reason. If Martinez wants to be here, he needs to play someone like Espinal off the roster. If Barger wants to be here, he needs to earn the job over IKF. That being said, Toronto might need to acquire another IF for the longer term.

Thinking about this another way, think of him like Cavan (who has the same flaws). He wasn't a very good defensive 3B due to reactions, but made a decent 2B. Again, you can work with them to try to speed them up, but it may not be possible.
 
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Canada4Gold said:
IDK. 3rd is more difficult to handle than 2nd. Usually teams moves guys from SS to 3rd to 2nd as they see what positions they're capable to sticking at. They've simultaneously moved Barger to the outfield as they did this last year though thankfully they appear willing to try him at 3rd still. Prospects bust a lot. As much as I like them the odds that Palmegiani or Barger are able to reach a level that's better than Schneider or Biggio are worse than 50/50. You have a couple league average 2B already. You just had to spend 15 million to get a below average 3B. You don't move your best hitting prospect to 2B to replace a league average guy because you have a guy in the mid teens in your prospect ranking who might be able to man 3rd at some point.

Unless the plan is secretly to sign Matt Chapman back of course.
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The Jays aren't signing anyone to a big deal at this point. The plan is to have some combo of IKF, Espinal, Biggio, Schneider and Varsho cover 3 spots until someone changes that plan.
 
Bjindaho said:
The Jays aren't signing anyone to a big deal at this point. The plan is to have some combo of IKF, Espinal, Biggio, Schneider and Varsho cover 3 spots until someone changes that plan.
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Not a fan. I’d rather have Chapman anchoring 3rd for us for the next few years. Warts at the plate and all. It’s not like IKF, Biggio, or Espinal are better bats. It would be a monster, but an ugly one at 3rd. If Rogers doesn’t want to fork over any more money, just let us know that they are not serious about winning the WS so that you or I don’t have to waste our time and money watching this team this season.
 
Suntouchable13 said:
Not a fan. I’d rather have Chapman anchoring 3rd for us for the next few years. Warts at the plate and all. It’s not like IKF, Biggio, or Espinal are better bats. It would be a monster, but an ugly one at 3rd. If Rogers doesn’t want to fork over any more money, just let us know that they are not serious about winning the WS so that you or I don’t have to waste our time and money watching this team this season.
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Less power but I think it can be argued overall Biggio is a better option at the plate than Chapman.
 
Suntouchable13 said:
Not a fan. I’d rather have Chapman anchoring 3rd for us for the next few years. Warts at the plate and all. It’s not like IKF, Biggio, or Espinal are better bats. It would be a monster, but an ugly one at 3rd.
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We don't have the budget for a 20M 3B. Even without IKF, we were likely short financially.

One thing that should be different this year is that hitting should be a requirement to play. If Schneider, Varsho and Orelvis hit well enough to play more, then one of Babe/Orelvis is going to play 3B.

The biggest thing is that we need to get back to development, so that the next wave is internal and the Jays don't have to find free agents for every position.
 
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One of the most productive hitters on the team…. Gone

We f***ing suck. How these losers how jobs still is a complete embarrassment
 
TheBeastCoast said:
He was not one of the teams most productive hitters.
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2nd in average
1st in steals
4th in runs
4th in doubles

He was most certainly one of most productive hitters. After Bo and VLAD one could argue he was our best. So yes he was productive.

Let’s let him walk.

Let’s sign some more schmucks to minor league deals though.
 
shaner8989 said:
2nd in average
1st in steals
4th in runs
4th in doubles

He was most certainly one of most productive hitters. After Bo and VLAD one could argue he was our best. So yes he was productive.

Let’s let him walk.

Let’s sign some more schmucks to minor league deals though.
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I’m pretty sure you called him putrid
 
shaner8989 said:
2nd in average
1st in steals
4th in runs
4th in doubles

He was most certainly one of most productive hitters. After Bo and VLAD one could argue he was our best. So yes he was productive.

Let’s let him walk.

Let’s sign some more schmucks to minor league deals though.
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He was the worst hitter for the Jays in the 2nd half and had the 3rd most PAs in that timespan. Nobody cares about an empty batting average.
 
Eyedea said:
He was the worst hitter for the Jays in the 2nd half and had the 3rd most PAs in that timespan. Nobody cares about an empty batting average.
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You do know the jays have Varsho Kirk Chapman Espinal Biggio Belt Jansen on the team too right? There is no way in hell Merrifeild was worse then any of those plugs. Regardless at the end of day Wit was a productive Jay. That doesn’t say much but he was.
 
shaner8989 said:
You do know the jays have Varsho Kirk Chapman Espinal Biggio Belt Jansen on the team too right? There is no way in hell Merrifeild was worse then any of those plugs. Regardless at the end of day Wit was a productive Jay. That doesn’t say much but he was.
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I don’t care what you think Shaner, Whit Merrifield graded as the WORST hitter for the Jays in the 2nd half, and that included a post-AS break hot streak.
 
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shaner8989 said:
And facts don’t care about what you think eyedea. Move on
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But I’m using facts?

No regular or prominent bench player had a lower wRC+ than Whit in the 2nd half. Not Belt, not Varsho, not Kirk, not Chapman, not Espinal. Zilch, nada, nobody.

But he hits singles :(

Last in wRC+, last in OPS, last in OBP, 3rd last in ISO, run the numbers buddy, he was BAD and offers no upside over our current rostered players
 
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