OFF DAY THREAD! Where we complain on non game days!

[Gurglesons]

McCann escaped suspension

This is hilarious. McCann should’ve sat a game. Targeted and followed through on an elbow.

 

[Tom Hanks]

he shouldn’t have but we all know NHL player safety is a joke

Yeah if it was an accident I could see a fine (I would still suspend so they learn) but it was clearly intentional.

 

[Empoleon8771]

In reality, the point of Jarry vs team defense really doesn't matter if the top-6 can't figure out its production problems. A 2-1 loss vs a 5-1 loss count for the same thing in the playoffs

To me, team offense is the #1 concern I have right now. It's not because of the bottom-6, it's because the top-6 has consistently failed at producing when games matter in the last 3 years. Even when those guys are playing "well", they're not producing. I thought Crosby played extremely well against the Habs last year, but "playing well" doesn't count if you only have 3 points in 4 games. Same thing with Malkin in 2019, I thought he played well against the Islanders but you're losing 100% of your playoff series where your top-6 forwards combine for 3 goals.

I'm not blaming Crosby and Malkin for this, but I honestly think this team is doomed unless Crosby and Malkin take a time machine back to 28. This team's top-6 is amazingly built if you assume you still have 28 year old Crosby and Malkin, but Crosby and Malkin aren't 28 anymore. Put these top-6 wingers on the 2014 Penguins and I think they easily win a cup, but 2021 isn't 2014.

 

[Rakell67]

A guy got punched in the back of the head in the Boston/Devils game. Wasn't even a 2 minute penalty. So when I see that inconsistency.. it drives me nuts.

Sounds about right.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Jake's been dogshit offensively since returning against the Habs in the play-in. His defensive play has been even worse, and honestly makes Sheary look like a Selke frontrunner. Rust looks wholly out of place as a top-6 scoring line winger, and I know shooting at 18% wasn't going to continue, but if you gave him E-Rod's jersey I'd never know the difference--he's been that bad. Sid and Geno have been very underwhelming, and while Sid's got a couple goals to his name, Geno's still coming up empty. E-Rod is what he is, a reserve forward being asked to fill in on Sidney Crosby's wing; it ain't gonna be pretty. Zucker's looked good but he's missed out on at least three goals he should've had by my count. The 3rd line's been, by far and away, our best of the bunch at forward. The 4th line is solid, and that's all you really need or want from that unit.

The blueline's been a shitshow too. Marino had a rough first game but I think he was much better in the second. Petts has been the good version of himself for the most part. Few lapses here and there, but safe and steady. Matheson has flashes of impressive skill but he looks all the world to be Bad Schultz v2.0 right now. Ceci's first game was Jack Johnson-like, and I'm still surprised (pleasantly) that he was scratched in the second game. Riikola-Ruhwedel should be our bottom pairing, but it won't be. Dumo's been awful defensively, and I don't know if it's his foot/ankle injury still bothering him or what, but he better damn well round out that part of his game because he's got all of the offensive ability of Craig Adams. Letang's play has been a microcosm of his entire career; a complete rollercoaster. His highs are high, but his lows are low. Overall I think 58's been pretty underwhelming in his own right.

Jarry started off fine and if it weren't for his play early, we'd have been down by a bunch in that 1st period of game one. The dam broke, he unraveled, and has been shaky or downright bad ever since. DeSmith is what he is. I have zero confidence he'll be anything better than like a bottom-third backup goalie, so if Jarry can't sort his shit out quickly, Minny's getting a top-10 pick.

JR and Sully shouldn't even have been able to stick around after the Isles series, and certainly not after the Habs series. It's wild to me how they're still around, doing the same dumb shit that's driven this team off a cliff in recent years. But, whatever.

 

[ncm7772]

Edit: when you lose both games and you trail a lot of the time, why are we playing a 3/4th liner the most?

You mean a 13F.

Sheesh. This might be the most ridiculous stat through these first two games.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Here's the best way I can put it. The Sharks made the 2016 cup with an older core of guys like Thorton and Marleau, but they made it by having great line driving linemates like Pavelski and Couture on their lines. Those linemates are vastly different than the kind of linemates that those guys used to play with. Back when Thornton and Marleau were in their prime, they had linemates like Cheechoo, Michalek, Setoguchi and Clowe. Those are still all good players, very good complementary pieces for talented players, but those kind of players don't work as well with a 35 year old former superstar as well as with a 25 year old superstar.

In looking at the makeup of this team, the Penguins have built their top-6 with good wingers who would have fit with 2014 Crosby and Malkin. Basically better versions of guys like Kunitz, Neal, Dupuis and such. That would have been amazing if it was still 2014, but it's not 2014. Had the the Sharks done the same thing in 2016, where they acquired better versions of guys like Cheechoo and Setoguchi to play with mid 30s Thornton and Marleau instead of Pavelski and Couture, they never would have made the cup finals.

I don't only think this is a failure on JR and Sullivan, either. Crosby and Malkin have influence on their linemates, and I don't know that they realize what worked in 2014 doesn't work now. Crosby made a big shit about not wanting to play with Kessel because Kessel carried the puck too much, but I'm really starting to think you need someone like that with both Crosby and Malkin. Especially as those guys get older.

 

[The Old Master]

How anyone can look at goaltending and blame them after watching that defense the last 2-3 years is beyond me. I mean absolutely beyond me. You can't just keep saying "Damn! GOALIE X needs to make that save!" Look around and see what else is happening.

Just SOME of the defensive issues:
- Communication (we have even numbers but don't communicate who to pick up)
- Duplication (sometimes 2 guys go to the same guy and leave the other wide open)
- Supporting (a player makes a defensive play but it is not layered by the team playing team defense)
- Neutral zone support
- Defensive zone support
- f***ing taking the stick in front of the net.


The perfect example is in Game 1. Two separate examples:
1) Matheson is standing in front of the net while we have even numbers and doesn't go to the guy who walks from the goalline to the front of the net and just slides the puck in. Why is he not touched? We had even numbers?

2) Marino (or someone) pinches in the o-zone. Sid supports. Sid loses his support because HE, TOO pinches. Odd man the opposite way. We had the right numbers. Bad execution.

that would take someone to look beyond the obvious. and your giving us credit that we know more than the casual fan.

 

[Gurglesons]

Here's the best way I can put it. The Sharks made the 2016 cup with an older core of guys like Thorton and Marleau, but they made it by having great line driving linemates like Pavelski and Couture on their lines. Those linemates are vastly different than the kind of linemates that those guys used to play with. Back when Thornton and Marleau were in their prime, they had linemates like Cheechoo, Michalek, Setoguchi and Clowe. Those are still all good players, very good complementary pieces for talented players, but those kind of players don't work as well with a 35 year old former superstar as well as with a 25 year old superstar.

In looking at the makeup of this team, the Penguins have built their top-6 with good wingers who would have fit with 2014 Crosby and Malkin. Basically better versions of guys like Kunitz, Neal, Dupuis and such. That would have been amazing if it was still 2014, but it's not 2014. Had the the Sharks done the same thing in 2016, where they acquired better versions of guys like Cheechoo and Setoguchi to play with mid 30s Thornton and Marleau instead of Pavelski and Couture, they never would have made the cup finals.

I don't only think this is a failure on JR and Sullivan, either. Crosby and Malkin have influence on their linemates, and I don't know that they realize what worked in 2014 doesn't work now. Crosby made a big shit about not wanting to play with Kessel because Kessel carried the puck too much, but I'm really starting to think you need someone like that with both Crosby and Malkin. Especially as those guys get older.

I’m not seeing a big difference between the forward groups. Guentzel and Zucker both drive play. The issue is our coach or our captain is forcing Guentzel and Zucker into the worst possible situations.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’m not seeing a big difference between the forward groups. Guentzel and Zucker both drive play. The issue is our coach or our captain is forcing Guentzel and Zucker into the worst possible situations.

I don't think either Guentzel or Zucker have the playmaking talent and the talent to drive offense by carrying the puck that Pavelski and Couture had. Guentzel and Zucker are elite complementary pieces in my eyes. The problem is that they're on a line with a RWer who's just a worse version of them.

I definitely don't think Guentzel or Zucker are a problem, but I'm pretty confident that you can't have Kapanen or Rust as RWers for them and have them succeed. I'll wait to see on Kapanen to be sure, but I'm quickly souring on Rust.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't think either Guentzel or Zucker have the playmaking talent and the talent to drive offense by carrying the puck that Pavelski and Couture had. Guentzel and Zucker are elite complementary pieces in my eyes. The problem is that they're on a line with a RWer who's just a worse version of them.

Incorrect. Jake has been a driver of our best line for three consecutive year.

Is Jason Zucker Pittsburgh's X-Factor?

This article perfectly spells out why Zucker fits with Sid and it’s because of their game below the net. If Sullivan is committed to Zucker and Rust I’d rather see Zucker - Crosby - Rust then trying to force it with Malkin.

 

[TKalltheTime]

My god Zucker is the most PR spun overrated piece of garbage player this team has had since Alexei Ponikarovsky...

 

[Tom Hanks]

You mean a 13F.

Sheesh. This might be the most ridiculous stat through these first two games.

Yeah it’s unbelievable that in 2 losses that Rodrigues is played the most out of our forwards 5v5.

Would have loved a reporter to grill him about this. Better still have JR call him about it.

There is no good reason for this to happen. If it was Line 3 then you could say ok they are playing well and seem our best chance to win. Rodrigues though?

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

f*** off with your shit right now.

Jarry wasn't good in that game. The team in front of him wasn't either. Literally no one but that 3rd line was good in that game on a consistent basis for the lone game this team has played.

We gave a narrow headed 3 f***ing years of horrid starts, you and your stupidity can't give a kid 1 game before you go off on your stupid shit. Piss off.

Pretty much half the posters are giving up on the team already after 2 games so why are you surprised. I guess message boards bring these types out. I certainly am not used to it with my sporting experiences both as an athlete and coach. Crazy how easily these guys give up on a team.

The team has played far worse in past years for longer stretches than this and still did very well after. I remember giving up 10 goals to the Blackhawks. Bad stretches happen for any team but at least this team has had the better of the play 5v5 in both games. Stop taking stupid penalties (too many men on the ice both games!!!) Clean up our own end and this team will be fine. If the Pens couldn't get scoring opportunities I would get concerned but even then not after 2 games. These posters on one of my teams I coach or have coached they would be benched just for the losing attitude. I am kind of a hard a$$ when it comes to that. I have coached a few National Champions with that coaching mentality. I have had some kids saying they thought they are going to lose and then I say don't wrestle and I bench them that match. Either believe or don't step out to compete. Don't like these whiny fans either. Don't come and watch if you don't believe in the team. We don't want you. Most of my graduate classes for my Masters are in sports psychology and I don't like surrounding myself with negative people. I love hockey talk so I grin and bear it on these boards.

As far as Gurgelsons you said in the last thread you can't wait until this team breaks my faith in them. Well that day will eventually come but I don't think it will be this year. I didn't watch a Steeler game after the Bengals loss. I know when a team has been lost. Tomlin should be gone. If Sullivan doesn't get this team playing better he will be gone also. I think this team has the talent to then rebound with the new coach and win a Cup. It has happened in 2009 and 2016. Will see but if you really have given up on the team stop watching and posting. You think I waste my time watching the Pirates.

 

[Darren McCord]

This team really can't score for whatever reasons, which is hilarious when you look at their top-6. Idk if Malkin and Crosby kinda just stink now relative to what they once were, but something just hasn't been working in the last few years. You can watch guys like McDavid, Draisaitl and MacKinnon do things that Crosby and Malkin used to be able to do, but then you go back to Sid and Geno and...they just can't do that anymore.

I disagree. Malkin was a top five player last year. He became neutered once sully messed with the lines. Zucker and Malkin are not working, its that simple.

Malkin before being put with Zucker.
6gp 4g 7a 11pts 9 even strength pts.

Malkin with Zucker
6gp 0g 1a 1pts 0 even strength pts.

Zucker before being put with Malkin.
6gp 1g 4a 5pts 4 even strength pts.

Zucker with Malkin
6gp 2g 0a 2pts 1 even strength pts.

Sample size schample size.

Fact is they are not working and its up to Sully to realize it and make the change. He doesnt have the balls to do it tho.

 

[Pancakes]

Here's the best way I can put it. The Sharks made the 2016 cup with an older core of guys like Thorton and Marleau, but they made it by having great line driving linemates like Pavelski and Couture on their lines. Those linemates are vastly different than the kind of linemates that those guys used to play with. Back when Thornton and Marleau were in their prime, they had linemates like Cheechoo, Michalek, Setoguchi and Clowe. Those are still all good players, very good complementary pieces for talented players, but those kind of players don't work as well with a 35 year old former superstar as well as with a 25 year old superstar.

In looking at the makeup of this team, the Penguins have built their top-6 with good wingers who would have fit with 2014 Crosby and Malkin. Basically better versions of guys like Kunitz, Neal, Dupuis and such. That would have been amazing if it was still 2014, but it's not 2014. Had the the Sharks done the same thing in 2016, where they acquired better versions of guys like Cheechoo and Setoguchi to play with mid 30s Thornton and Marleau instead of Pavelski and Couture, they never would have made the cup finals.

I don't only think this is a failure on JR and Sullivan, either. Crosby and Malkin have influence on their linemates, and I don't know that they realize what worked in 2014 doesn't work now. Crosby made a big shit about not wanting to play with Kessel because Kessel carried the puck too much, but I'm really starting to think you need someone like that with both Crosby and Malkin. Especially as those guys get older.

I feel like this might be the case more for Malkin than Crosby right now. Malkin is struggling to carry the puck so far this season. Maybe he just needs to get his legs under him, or maybe his age is starting to show skating-wise.

Sid's skating still looks fantastic. He's having no trouble carrying the puck on his line and skating with authority.

I don't think it'd be be a bad idea to get them both guys who can carry the puck more, though.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Would have loved a reporter to grill him about this. Better still have JR call him about it.

Hahaha... yeah right. The next time a local reporter asks a tough question will be the first time. They're just a bunch of Penguins PR guys who don't officially work for the team.

 

[ColePens]

My god Zucker is the most PR spun overrated piece of garbage player this team has had since Alexei Ponikarovsky...

He and Tanev were really good last game Sooooooo

 

[Ryder71]

I disagree. Malkin was a top five player last year. He became neutered once sully messed with the lines. Zucker and Malkin are not working, its that simple.

Malkin before being put with Zucker.
6gp 4g 7a 11pts 9 even strength pts.

Malkin with Zucker
6gp 0g 1a 1pts 0 even strength pts.

Zucker before being put with Malkin.
6gp 1g 4a 5pts 4 even strength pts.

Zucker with Malkin
6gp 2g 0a 2pts 1 even strength pts.

Sample size schample size.

Fact is they are not working and its up to Sully to realize it and make the change. He doesnt have the balls to do it tho.

Zucker-Sid-KK
Jake-Geno-Rust

That simple, that easy. Give it a shot.

 

[TKalltheTime]

No amount of chair shuffling with the forwards is going to fix the horrid D...

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

My god Zucker is the most PR spun overrated piece of garbage player this team has had since Alexei Ponikarovsky...

Every time you post you reveal a higher level of stupidity than previously thought. It's unreal. Like some kind of Marvel superpower.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

No amount of chair shuffling with the forwards is going to fix the horrid D...

I actually think it would help.

The top six is anemic. That simple linemate flip would probably go a long way towards solving that. Or hell at least it's worth a TRY. It isn't as if much has been working for, well... a while.

I don't know if it would fix the defense but it would take a lot of pressure off of them and likely win some games out of sheer offensive capability.

 

[ColePens]

I do not think the roster we have is a slam dunk Cup contender, but equally I do not believe for a split second that the roster we have isn't good enough to be one. To me, I see the maximum potential all in system related areas.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I do not think the roster we have is a slam dunk Cup contender, but equally I do not believe for a split second that the roster we have isn't good enough to be one. To me, I see the maximum potential all in system related areas.

I admit that as much as it seems like I've thrown in the towel on these guys every logical part of my brain is screaming that it just isn't possible for them to have gotten this shitty this fast.

 

[Darren McCord]

Zucker-Sid-KK
Jake-Geno-Rust

That simple, that easy. Give it a shot.

You would think so. And it does to everyone except Sullivan