OFF DAY THREAD! Where we complain on non game days!

[Empoleon8771]

So you think what you saw in that Montreal and Isles series was top 5 defense? You, personally, think what you saw in Games 1/2 here are top 5 defense?

Just answer those questions directly. I am sure the answer cannot be yes.

Why are we judging the team as a whole based on an 8 game sample size? I was talking about overall.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The thing that sucks is that the Penguins really didn't have any alternatives due to a flat cap. They couldn't really afford to keep Murray, so he had to get traded. They couldn't really afford a veteran backup because the only legitimate upgrade on DeSmith who was in their price range was Lundqvist, who had to retire anyway. You couldn't convince guys like Talbot or Greiss to take a 1B spot to Jarry over being starters for Minnesota and Detroit, even if you could afford them.

I can't even fault JR if goaltending ends up blowing up this year because he really didn't have any legitimate alternatives due to a stagnant cap.

Yeah it wasn't really a winnable situation with Murray. So don't mistake me... I'm not leaning that direction. I just was never super sold on Jarry being "the guy."

 

[ColePens]

Why are we judging the team as a whole based on an 8 game sample size? I was talking about overall.

I asked you a question. Please answer it.

 

[Darren McCord]

You can blame the goalie all you want and rightfully so. But change the damn system if your goalie is struggling. They aren't going to get a new goalie, but they could help him out.

Again it is on the coach when you refuse to adapt to your players. Sullivan refuses to change systems or styles. Rutherford has not been great but he has shipped more players out to fit what sully wants to the point there is not one left to ship out that will make an impact.

 

[dogthateats]

Another thing to remember is that Carter Hart is really good.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I asked you a question. Please answer it.

"I asked a bogus loaded question, please answer it"

And to answer your question, no on the Islanders series but absolutely yes on the Habs series. The Penguins were an absolutely fantastic team defensively last year in both the regular season and playoffs. And on this year, I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that the opinions of this team's defense would be a hell of a lot different if Jarry could actually make a save.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I mean, come on. The Penguins have given up 45 total shots in 2 games. Even if you want to completely ignore the analytics, they really weren't giving up a lot of shots on net in general. In terms of high danger shots against, it's only 17 in 2 games. That's not great, but it's not terrible.

Again, Jarry has given up 8 goals on 12 high danger shots. Any opinion based solely on the eye test for the Penguins defense is going to be skewed by that. Flip Jarry's play around the other way, no one would remember how many high danger chances the Penguins have given up through 2 games if Jarry was only at 2 goals against on 12 high danger shots. People are noticing the defensive screw ups because they keep ending up in the back of the net, but they're not giving up a ton of those chances. The chances they give up just keep going in the net.

 

[EXTRAS]

Will gaetan Haas be a regular?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Everyone brings up regular season stats or regular season record as if it matters. We went through like half a decade of Shero/Bylsma smoke and mirrors regarding that kind of stuff. None of that shit matters in the playoffs, we all know that. It doesn't matter that we were a statistically elite defensive team, or that we were just outside a top-5 team record-wise. We got smoked by Montreal, Sullivan continued to get dummied in the coaching matchup, and by the last game a grand total of zero players looked like they gave even the slightest f*** about playing hockey--let alone trying to win the games.

This team's been a paper tiger for years. I don't know if it's JR's fault, Sully's fault, the players' fault, or some combination of those factors, but I do know that this team has been and will continue to be a complete fraud in terms of Cup contention until serious, serious changes are made. A complete FO overhaul, Sully out, stripping the roster down to studs and bolts to either go for a full rebuild over the course of 3-5 years or a rebuild on the fly where we sacrifice this year and next to try and get into a better position to compete again.

 

[Gurglesons]

Does anyone think the results would have changed with DeSmith in?

I don’t and that’s not absolving Jarry either. He needs to be better.

Tbh. Yes. Jarry looks lost and nervous.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Tbh. Yes. Jarry looks lost and nervous.

Exactly what a liar would say first

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm still not convinced we'll miss the playoffs. We'll right the ship just enough to make people think we're legit, and then we'll get clowned in the 1st round again. Such is tradition.

Or, we'll miss entirely. Whatever. I'm not gonna get bent out of shape about it anymore. I'll be annoyed, not because of how this team is currently, but rather how this team has painted itself into a shit corner because JR wanted to lose his mind for a few years after Tom Wilson hit a couple of our guys two years in a row in a losing effort by the Caps.

 

[Gurglesons]

Exactly what a liar would say first

I think Jarry should start tomorrow for the record but if he can’t clean it up things change after that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm still not convinced we'll miss the playoffs. We'll right the ship just enough to make people think we're legit, and then we'll get clowned in the 1st round again. Such is tradition.

Yeah, this is my expectation as well. Have a decently strong regular season and finish 2nd or 3rd in the division and get smoked by Philly in the 1st round in the same ways they have in recent years: not being able to score in the playoffs.

This team really can't score for whatever reasons, which is hilarious when you look at their top-6. Idk if Malkin and Crosby kinda just stink now relative to what they once were, but something just hasn't been working in the last few years. You can watch guys like McDavid, Draisaitl and MacKinnon do things that Crosby and Malkin used to be able to do, but then you go back to Sid and Geno and...they just can't do that anymore.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

The only reason to harp on Jarry right now, imo, is to make fun of posters and members of the media who pushed the idea that Jarry was some rare talent based on, essentially, a six-week hot streak and Jarry being named an injury replacement at the all-star game. I see no reason to not continue to dunk on those people because it's hilarious.

In terms of his actual play, though, he's been bad but would look better if our team played better defense. It's only been two games. I'm not hugely concerned about him right now. I don't think he's a .700 goalie.

 

[ColePens]

"I asked a bogus loaded question, please answer it"

And to answer your question, no on the Islanders series but absolutely yes on the Habs series. The Penguins were an absolutely fantastic team defensively last year in both the regular season and playoffs. And on this year, I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that the opinions of this team's defense would be a hell of a lot different if Jarry could actually make a save.

So in 3 years, your analytics don't show up in the playoffs. That is not a one-off. That is a trend, my friend. And legit ask anyone who is associated with hockey - the playoffs are what matters. If you have some godly 30% powerplay in the RS and it ends up 9% in the playoffs for 3 years, you fire your powerplay coach.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I think Jarry should start tomorrow for the record but if he can’t clean it up things change after that.

I would start DeSmith. Ride the “hot” goalie mentality until we build some wins.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So in 3 years, your analytics don't show up in the playoffs. That is not a one-off. That is a trend, my friend. And legit ask anyone who is associated with hockey - the playoffs are what matters. If you have some godly 30% powerplay in the RS and it ends up 9% in the playoffs for 3 years, you fire your powerplay coach.

What? That's just not true. They were just as strong defensively against the Habs in the playoffs last year as they were in the regular season. The Penguins were pretty mediocre defensively in 2018-2019 and followed that up with a pretty mediocre defensive showing in the playoffs that year.

What you're saying doesn't make any sense because it's not anything the Penguins have been doing. The only change from the regular season to the playoffs when it comes to the Penguins is that their team can't produce in the playoffs. Which is my #1 biggest concern with this team going forward, ability to get production from their forwards.

 

[Tom Hanks]

McCann escaped suspension

 

[ColePens]

What? That's just not true. They were just as strong defensively against the Habs in the playoffs last year as they were in the regular season. The Penguins were pretty mediocre defensively in 2018-2019 and followed that up with a pretty mediocre defensive showing in the playoffs that year.

What you're saying doesn't make any sense because it's not anything the Penguins have been doing. The only change from the regular season to the playoffs when it comes to the Penguins is that their team can't produce in the playoffs. Which is my #1 biggest concern with this team going forward, ability to get production from their forwards.

I will just disagree with you. If you think what you are watching is top 5 defense, especially against the Habs, holy yikes. I mean holy yikes. And that team was bad offensively, too. Just yikes.

 

[ColePens]

McCann escaped suspension

A guy got punched in the back of the head in the Boston/Devils game. Wasn't even a 2 minute penalty. So when I see that inconsistency.. it drives me nuts.

 

[Pancakes]

How anyone can look at goaltending and blame them after watching that defense the last 2-3 years is beyond me. I mean absolutely beyond me. You can't just keep saying "Damn! GOALIE X needs to make that save!" Look around and see what else is happening.

Just SOME of the defensive issues:
- Communication (we have even numbers but don't communicate who to pick up)
- Duplication (sometimes 2 guys go to the same guy and leave the other wide open)
- Supporting (a player makes a defensive play but it is not layered by the team playing team defense)
- Neutral zone support
- Defensive zone support
- f***ing taking the stick in front of the net.


The perfect example is in Game 1. Two separate examples:
1) Matheson is standing in front of the net while we have even numbers and doesn't go to the guy who walks from the goalline to the front of the net and just slides the puck in. Why is he not touched? We had even numbers?

2) Marino (or someone) pinches in the o-zone. Sid supports. Sid loses his support because HE, TOO pinches. Odd man the opposite way. We had the right numbers. Bad execution.

Many of the breakdowns were terrible but Jarry also just wasn't making any big saves is my take. Does that mean he's the reason we're 0-2? Nope. But he's not helping either.

The fact is he DOES need to make some of those saves. There are going to be breakdowns. We are not some robotic perfect defensive team. We can and should be a lot better defensively than we have been, but we also need our goalie to make the occasional save on these breakdowns. Right now it feels like every bad break against us ends up in the back of our net.

Team sport. Team blame. It's not all on Jarry. And it's not all on the defense in front of him. But BOTH need to be better. Period.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I will just disagree with you. If you think what you are watching is top 5 defense, especially against the Habs, holy yikes. I mean holy yikes. And that team was bad offensively, too. Just yikes.

I mean, you can just say "yikes" all you want, but the numbers say what the numbers say.

This isn't even digging into some obscure analytics to say Cody Ceci is good defensively or something like that. This is just looking at how many shots they gave up and what quality of shots they gave up. Against the Habs, they really didn't give up much in terms of chances. They lost because they couldn't score whatsoever. Now, you can argue that they didn't give up many chances because the Habs weren't a good offensive team, but they were 100% "great" defensively in the context of not giving the Habs chances in the playoffs last year.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

McCann escaped suspension

I thought the max fine was 5k for some reason. Not that I don't think this punishment is deserved.

 

[Andy99]

McCann escaped suspension

he shouldn’t have but we all know NHL player safety is a joke