Post-Game Talk: octopuss

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I actually think their biggest problem with dump and chase is that they support each other so poorly. Lot of times they'll dump and get to the puck but wherever they try to move it to there's no teammate. It feels like there's no real plan of where guys should be on the forecheck to start a cycle. So there's a lot of dump the puck, retrieve it, swing it around the boards to no one and the other team breaks it out.

once they start cycling I don't think they're terrible, they usually try to get pucks to the net at least.
On the surface, it seems to me like there were a lot of bad AV/Quinn habits that needed to be coached out of them but then injuries and Covid started piling up and the top guys regressed back to their comfort zone (this happened last year, as well) and because of the state of the bottom 6, the top forwards can't be "punished" for playing globetrotter hockey.

I think the lack of depth is truly murdering the team on the ice right now.

It's why I want Panarin and Strome broken up. They have a toxic play style together that bleeds over to everyone else on the roster, and (not to sound cliche) it is not the "right" way to play.
 
speaking of toxic:

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Panarin without Strome has been a trainwreck, and you wonder why the coach doesn't want to split them up.
 
Jeezus.

Hart level Panarin would be nice to have again. But never mind that pace, he's even 9 points off last year's pace with one fewer game played.

Panarin needs and NHL caliber RW and to look to shoot more. The team was playing their best hockey around Thanksgiving/early December because he was making a point to use his shot. Tipped & rebound goals count the same as a backdoor slam dunk
 
tbf that's predominantly at the beginning of the year when Strome was out and Panarin looked like dogwater
yes that is true, but even so the pattern holds throughout each's tenure with the team. Panarin is always much better with Strome than he is apart. So the reluctance to split them up is understandable.
 
Do you really believe that there are simple fixes to the system employed that fans can see but coach after coach can't figure out?

Why is it that on other teams Gallant was considered by some, including some here, to be a great coach?

Besides personnel, what is different here?

Did Gallant become a moron?

If you're saying he is coaching here in a style to make management happy, that would make him a total moron and I don't believe he is.

He's the same coach, coaching the same way he did everywhere unless he has somewhat adapted his system to his personnel, which would make sense.

By the way, no matter how you slice it this team is much higher in the standings than you could have dreamed before the season.

Are they a Cup contender? No.

Did you expect them to be? No.

The simple answer to everything is usually overlooked. They're not good enough, yet, but they're ahead of schedule on the rebuild. Is it going to work out?

Who knows, but if Kakko and Laf were doing what everyone thought they'd do, the Rangers would be a Cup contender, but there's no one to blame for that. Every team in the NHL would have drafted both of them where the Rangers did.

It was AV's fault.

It was Quinn's fault.

Now it's Gallant's fault.

That just doesn't make any sense to me.

Gallant has the team playing the same system that Quinn employed, just a simplified version of it. But its different than any Gallant has played in the past (which all relied on aggressive neutral zone play) and as far as I can tell is different than any other system being used in the NHL today.

There are really only two types of systems teams play: one that involves pressure in the offensive zone via a heavy forecheck or one that involves pressure in the neutral zone with trapping. Its literally the two sides of the hockey systems coin. We do... neither. We have a light forecheck and passive and retreatist neutral zone play.

Why are they ignoring the neutral zone and their own blue line? It is definitely by design so a maybe a willingness to cede sustained defensive zone time to accomplish its goal of avoiding on avoiding odd-man rushes? I have no idea. But the end result is the Rangers getting absolutely crushed with shots and chances nightly.

Why did Gallant stick with this system? The Rangers were pretty average defensively last year (and actually above average in terms of GF if not anything else) so maybe Gallant figured he could make it work? And we've been winning games, despite often being out shot and out chanced by huge margins, so he'd rather not rock the boat? Again, I have no idea.

All I know is that right now is that even the Rangers star players are pedestrian at 5v5. When Panarin and Fox, two of the leagues best, are out on the ice together they are being out shot 125-103. But its a personnel problem?
 
hustling and being good at it aren’t the same thing... howden hustles his ass off. I’d still rather have Rooney as a 4C....

Zibby tries to avoid contact whenever possible, a big difference from his bowling ball play from years ago.
Whether he’s scared of injuries/concussions or has just adapted his game over the years for longevity to be more of a Panarin-esque player, he’s more of a perimeter/finesse center then a hard nosed N/S player.

his shot is his moneymaker. And lately he’s been playing well and moving his feet more and it’s put him in better scoring positions.

I have zero memories of Zib ever being a bowling ball player.

Howden has more goals than Kakko.
 
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No one on this team goes balls out on the forecheck. It's truly maddening. There are always at least a few guys on the other team that are puck-hounds, skating like their ass is on fire. Even those players we have that do forecheck hard are rarely effective at getting the puck back. We have no true fast-twitch players that are just really good at taking away options and forcing bad decisions.

We also look terrible at reading off of each other. When we play the top teams, everything their players do is with a purpose. They shut down passing lanes, and then are immediately on top of whichever option was left open, perpetuating the cycle, to the point where we would need to make 4 or 5 perfect decisions in quick succession to get a decent chance. It requires team cohesion that we don't have.
 
Somebody should knock him upside the head,,,hopefully Wilson will bring him back to reality or Ross the Boss ......when he does gets into a good scrap at some point he likely will end up hurt because of the lack of it. That would be Ranger luck .

It would be good luck if he was out of the lineup.
 
Somebody should knock him upside the head,,,hopefully Wilson will bring him back to reality or Ross the Boss ......when he does gets into a good scrap at some point he likely will end up hurt because of the lack of it. That would be Ranger luck .

It would be good luck if he was out of the lineup.
 
Gallant has the team playing the same system that Quinn employed, just a simplified version of it. But its different than any Gallant has played in the past (which all relied on aggressive neutral zone play) and as far as I can tell is different than any other system being used in the NHL today.

There are really only two types of systems teams play: one that involves pressure in the offensive zone via a heavy forecheck or one that involves pressure in the neutral zone with trapping. Its literally the two sides of the hockey systems coin. We do... neither. We have a light forecheck and passive and retreatist neutral zone play.

Why are they ignoring the neutral zone and their own blue line? It is definitely by design so a maybe a willingness to cede sustained defensive zone time to accomplish its goal of avoiding on avoiding odd-man rushes? I have no idea. But the end result is the Rangers getting absolutely crushed with shots and chances nightly.

Why did Gallant stick with this system? The Rangers were pretty average defensively last year (and actually above average in terms of GF if not anything else) so maybe Gallant figured he could make it work? And we've been winning games, despite often being out shot and out chanced by huge margins, so he'd rather not rock the boat? Again, I have no idea.

All I know is that right now is that even the Rangers star players are pedestrian at 5v5. When Panarin and Fox, two of the leagues best, are out on the ice together they are being out shot 125-103. But its a personnel problem?

Earlier in the year, there was definitely more resistance at their own blue line to disrupt entries. Right now, they are definitely ceding the neutral zone and letting the other team gain the zone with speed. I think the defensive zone coverage was designed to cede shots from outside and from bad angles to pay attention to the slot and prevent rebound chances, with the confidence that Shesterkin will stop everything he is able to see.

Shesterkin directs shots off to the sides, and the center and forward on that side are supposed to work it back to the defenseman for the outlet pass or a reverse to his defense partner.

Right now, all 5 are just slow reacting to the rebounds off shots that Shesterkin repels. The other team recovers the puck and resets. It looks very Quinn-like in that our forwards do not pressure the point men or stray too high away from the circles.
 
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And Strome's xGF is higher w/o Panarin.

But I thought Panarin was picking up Strome's bad habits. :huh:
There can only be (1) Panarin per line.

Panarin Zibs Kreider makes the most sense as currently constructed. Kreider actually creates space and lanes for his teammates. That's where Panarin thrives

IMO Gourde is the perfect complimentary center for Panarin, stylistically speaking.

I'm done with Panarin Strome as a couple. The copium is they'd get back to 2019 Even-Strength production.... and that's just not happening
 
It's amazing how echo chambers work. Suddenly (in the course of a few pages in a single topic) he's a wreck, Strome makes his numbers, he needs a bootcamp treatment.

God thanks no one here runs the team.

Presumptuous much? I didn't say any of those things.
 
There can only be (1) Panarin per line.

Panarin Zibs Kreider makes the most sense as currently constructed. Kreider actually creates space and lanes for his teammates. That's where Panarin thrives

IMO Gourde is the perfect complimentary center for Panarin, stylistically speaking.

I'm done with Panarin Strome as a couple. The copium is they'd get back to 2019 Even-Strength production.... and that's just not happening

Stylistically AV would love Panarin and Fox. It's all about puck possession. Panarin loves the stretch pass going rink wide from one end to the other. Fox can deliver stretch passes to Panarin & co. When it's not there, Panarin moves the puck backward for a recoil. When there are no immediate plays to be made, he would rather slow things down to get a lay of the land before he heads up ice than bull-rush it up and push the pace. He would rather turn back, allowing the other team the chance to set up their D.
 
Absolutely which is why I can almost get where the "they're not tough enough" notion comes from but I think lack of cohesion and commitment to a team plan (is there one???) is different from we have to fight Nick Ritchie or whatever the f***. And bringing in Reaves and Tinordi doesn't solve the former.

People bring up leadership, but leadership is in the front office just as much as on the ice, if not more. They've had four years since McDonagh was traded and they can't name a captain, acquire a captain, or develop a captain? They let this go on. And I refuse to believe that this disjointed mess cleans itself up if a particular guy had a particular letter on his shirt.

On any team worth a damn, this freelancing on offense wouldn't be accepted, which is why I keep going back to the idea that somebody up there is ok with it.

I think it's a mix of things. It's Sather, it's always having that security blankie between the pipes, it's the Broadway culture and the idea that you come here to be a star, it's the idea that toughness always the problem regardless of what it actually is (which is probably just an extension of Sather).

Somebody, someday has to step up and let everyone know this isn't how you run a hockey team.

I was hoping Gallant's strong personality would get that done. I was actually afraid he'd get canned for doing it too forcefully, as he's been known to do. So far, though, it looks like Gallant wants to get out of the business of bouncing around, because he's done nothing but enable all of this.

AK was airing his frustration in another thread recently, saying that the development of our young players comes down to incompetence at this point. There have been two weight-carrying constants in this organization since the turn of the millennium: Dolan (~1999) and Sather (2000). We know Dolan couldn't give a f*** less about hockey other than knowing NYR makes him money. One of the few times he did talk about the Rangers was around 2014 to say they were winning the Cup, and Torts basically said "Shut up." Then of course his tirades across last season. This team, for all the strides they've made (Read: Signing Adam Fox), still feels like a Sather-constructed team. Is it a coincidence that basically every team outside of the Torts-coached teams have ultimately looked the same? Is it a coincidence that Torts had the strongest, most "f*** you" personality out of the bunch? I'm starting to think it isn't.

We've seen this team built around a goalie for nearly 20 years now, and how much more impactful it is in the playoffs to have a game-breaking forward/defender than a game-breaking goalie. I really think one of the best moves this team could make is trading a package including Shesterkin for a 1C, grabbing a solid starting goalie that isn't Georgiev, and rolling with that. Can NYR magically pry Draisaitl from Edmonton? Larkin? Hintz? Maybe one of the Cs out of LA would somehow be cheaper, but if I'm including Shesty in a package, I want a no questions asked top-flight player coming back.
 
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