Post-Game Talk: octopuss

[chosen]

Gallant has the team playing the same system that Quinn employed, just a simplified version of it. But its different than any Gallant has played in the past (which all relied on aggressive neutral zone play) and as far as I can tell is different than any other system being used in the NHL today.

There are really only two types of systems teams play: one that involves pressure in the offensive zone via a heavy forecheck or one that involves pressure in the neutral zone with trapping. Its literally the two sides of the hockey systems coin. We do... neither. We have a light forecheck and passive and retreatist neutral zone play.

Why are they ignoring the neutral zone and their own blue line? It is definitely by design so a maybe a willingness to cede sustained defensive zone time to accomplish its goal of avoiding on avoiding odd-man rushes? I have no idea. But the end result is the Rangers getting absolutely crushed with shots and chances nightly.

Why did Gallant stick with this system? The Rangers were pretty average defensively last year (and actually above average in terms of GF if not anything else) so maybe Gallant figured he could make it work? And we've been winning games, despite often being out shot and out chanced by huge margins, so he'd rather not rock the boat? Again, I have no idea.

All I know is that right now is that even the Rangers star players are pedestrian at 5v5. When Panarin and Fox, two of the leagues best, are out on the ice together they are being out shot 125-103. But its a personnel problem?

Your view is that Gallant used to know how to coach, but somehow he's forgotten and is now an idiot. Is that logical?

How many coaches have to pass through until it becomes crystal clear that the issues are not about coaching?

It's baffling to me that anyone believes that coaches go from smart to stupid when they switch teams. The only variable in the equation that changed is who is playing for the coaches.

Kakko can go 20 games without a goal while in the top 6. That's unbelievably pitiful. Cup contenders don't have those situations.

I still think Laf will be okay, but he's a huge disappointment, so far.

Chytil hasn't improved enough.

Gauthier crashes into goalies and that's about it.

Hunt in a top-6 spot?

The fourth line can get pinned in for entire shifts. The third line is weak.

The depth on this team is horrible. Their D is improving and will be fine. The forwards need help.

They do have arguably the best goalie and defenseman in the league and very good special teams so they are much higher in the standings than anyone thought could happen. Why be upset about a team that is overachieving?

The fault lies with management and the bad luck of management that two high draft picks haven't worked out, yet.

Yes, it's a personnel problem.

 

[Machinehead]

speaking of toxic:

View attachment 503797

Panarin without Strome has been a trainwreck, and you wonder why the coach doesn't want to split them up.

I volunteer my services to slap Panarin and yell "DUDE WHAT THE f***!"

That might be all it takes.

 

[will1066]

I volunteer my services to slap Panarin and yell "DUDE WHAT THE f***!"

That might be all it takes.

Do it with one of those foam noodles lol.

 

[Machinehead]

Do it with one of those foam noodles lol.

I feel like Kratos going to get the blades of chaos.

"I must dig up a past I swore would stay buried."

 

[duhmetreE]

I volunteer my services to slap Panarin and yell "DUDE WHAT THE f***!"

That might be all it takes.

Maybe you can empower him with pictures of his dog

 

[McRanger92]

When it comes at the expense of their long term viability, yes.

A few picks, Kravtsov & maybe Chytil or Lundkvist isn’t compromising anything long term

 

[will1066]

I feel like Kratos going to get the blades of chaos.

"I must dig up a past I swore would stay buried."

Might be just a tad overkill.

 

[wafflepadsave]

I'm theoretically okay with them buying at the deadline, but it's all conditional on what they'd be giving up. This isn't a team that should be big-game hunting at the deadline. They're one Shesterkin injury from being a first round bye for their opponent. Most i'd be willing to give up is like a 2nd for Reilly Smith, unless somehow whoever we're getting is coming in at a massive discount. Quite honestly, this team Isn't Ready.




...You do realize he lightly tossed it over the glass to a fan, right? He didn't hurl it like a hand grenade

Doesn’t matter. Stupidly at its worst.

 

[Machinehead]

Might be just a tad overkill.

Let me have this!

 

[McRanger]

Your view is that Gallant used to know how to coach, but somehow he's forgotten and is now an idiot. Is that logical?

How many coaches have to pass through until it becomes crystal clear that the issues are not about coaching?

It's baffling to me that anyone believes that coaches go from smart to stupid when they switch teams. The only variable in the equation that changed is who is playing for the coaches.

The only person that is calling Gallant stupid is you.

All I said was that Gallant is playing a similar system to the one Quinn played, probably because on the surface the Rangers had modest success with it last year, and that despite where we are in the standings that system has led to sustained and undeniable problems at 5v5. Its also very different from the ones he employed in Vegas and Florida, both which involved pressure in the neutral zone. Which is literally the opposite of what we do now.

Instead of arguing any of that you just keep being melodramatic about people hating coaches.

I don't hate Gallant or think he's stupid. I understand why he is hesitant to make changes to a team that is winning.

But I also don't think there is a chance in hell a team that gives up double the amount of shots and scoring chances than they get is going to ever win anything in the playoffs. Frankly if it wasn't for obscene goaltending we wouldn't be winning much in the regular season either.

The difference between us is you seem to be cool with that. Great. I'm not.

Kakko can go 20 games without a goal while in the top 6. That's unbelievably pitiful. Cup contenders don't have those situations.

I still think Laf will be okay, but he's a huge disappointment, so far.

Chytil hasn't improved enough.

Gauthier crashes into goalies and that's about it.

Hunt in a top-6 spot?

The fourth line can get pinned in for entire shifts. The third line is weak.

The depth on this team is horrible. Their D is improving and will be fine. The forwards need help.

They do have arguably the best goalie and defenseman in the league and very good special teams so they are much higher in the standings than anyone thought could happen. Why be upset about a team that is overachieving?

The fault lies with management and the bad luck of management that two high draft picks haven't worked out, yet.

Yes, it's a personnel problem.

Yes, bad or mediocre players are going to be bad or mediocre.

None of this explains why our good players are struggling at 5v5.

Which is the point.

 

[Machinehead]

Yes, bad or mediocre players are going to be bad or mediocre.

None of this explains why our good players are struggling at 5v5.

Which is the point.

It also doesn't explain why our young players are struggling.

Both of these guys were slam dunk consensus picks. Am I to believe we just have the worst luck in the world?

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Something has been wrong with Panarin since the beginning of the season. I strongly suspect he came to camp out of shape, but I can’t prove it obviously. He’s not anywhere close to the player he has been, and it’s pretty worrying, tbh. If he plans on showing up in shit shape to camp, he’s not going to age very gracefully in all likelihood.

 

[egelband]

Those linesmen need a talking to. Drop the f***ing puck. Every single faceoff with multiple pump fakes and toss outs, it was a complete joke today.

That Mika penalty was a phantom call if there’s ever been won so it’s only fair they let that “penalty” on Kreider go on the winning goal. Sheehan skated right into him and flopped down, not Kreider’s fault he’s a tank.

The team has looked like crap for the past few weeks but with the covid issues and the current injuries they’ve been seriously depleted for a while not. Not an excuse but it’s just a fact. And again it can’t be overstated how much of a loss Fox being out is. And missing Kakko and Chytil slides up our 4th liners to the third line and AHLers in the 4th. It’s basically impossible to sustain pressure and outplay a team with the bottom 6 being this bad.

Igor was great. I thought Mika and Lafreniere both had good games.

Biggest takeaway is the officials today. Poor calls by these refs and the linesman fake puck drop garbage was abhorrent.

Totally agree on the last non call. The Seattle guy was complaining but it legitimately could have been a penalty on him too. No call was the right decision.

 

[egelband]

KAM is an absolute wild-card.

Yep. I love that he’s carrying the puck more. He can beat whole defenses down the ice.
Btw, Schneider pretty fast too.

 

[egelband]

I’m cool with the coach calling out the team. Would be concerned if he calls out individual players. That’s bush and I hate when I see other coaches do it.

 

[McSauer]

Something has been wrong with Panarin since the beginning of the season. I strongly suspect he came to camp out of shape, but I can’t prove it obviously. He’s not anywhere close to the player he has been, and it’s pretty worrying, tbh. If he plans on showing up in shit shape to camp, he’s not going to age very gracefully in all likelihood.

Sure he started slow and missed 4-5 games due to Covid, but he's at 8 points more than games played. He puts up multi-point games in his sleep. The least of our worries is Panarin at this point.

 

[egelband]

Oh yeah Sam was completely fed up with the linesmen and for good reason. They were pump faking the centers out to the point it looked intentional and thus every faceoff after a while had both centers basically confused because of the stupid standard the linesmen were setting today. Truly bush league stuff from them.

The truly annoying part is that the officials constantly are trying to “teach” the players some “lesson” when, in fact, the officials themselves are incompetent, calling the game by situation rather than by what the players do.

 

[Kocur26]

I'm actually starting to get worried about Panarin.

Hugging the boards like Nedved…

 

[Fitzy]

It also doesn't explain why our young players are struggling.

Both of these guys were slam dunk consensus picks. Am I to believe we just have the worst luck in the world?

I think there’s something to the argument that first and second overall players are usually not picked by a team that has enough top end talent to NOT play them on the top line and top pp unit by default.

If Kakko or Laf were out there every top power play they would have many more points and a lot more confidence, we just wouldn’t have quite as many points in the standings

 

[McRanger]

It also doesn't explain why our young players are struggling.

Both of these guys were slam dunk consensus picks. Am I to believe we just have the worst luck in the world?

Until we have a system that seems designed to do something, anything, at 5v5 its hard to get a real read on anyone, including the youngsters.

I mean we generate less at 5v5 than anyone in the league thats not Arizona while simultaneously letting other teams generate a ton.

 

[CLW]

Until we have a system that seems designed to do something, anything, at 5v5 its hard to get a real read on anyone, including the youngsters.

I mean we generate less at 5v5 than anyone in the league thats not Arizona while simultaneously letting other teams generate a ton.

Yeah, honestly what the flippin flip is going on with our "same as Quinn" 5v5 system. Blow it up, destroy it, consign it to history no-one will miss it. Gallant is starting to show signs of wear already.

 

[jay from jersey]

I have zero memories of Zib ever being a bowling ball player.

Howden has more goals than Kakko.

kakkos not a center.... but
Your correct yes he does...

3-4 years ago, Zibby played an much more physical style of game...
Can’t help if you don’t remember that but it’s true. This is prior to cutting weight with his diet/last 2-3 concussions/ upper body injuries ago.
The biggest shift came after his 30 goal/70 pt season....
After that there was a big difference in his physical play and the places he would go on the ice.

theres a bunch of game videos and highlights you can watch to refresh your memory... I try to block a lot of the Quinn years out as well.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Yeah, honestly what the flippin flip is going on with our "same as Quinn" 5v5 system. Blow it up, destroy it, consign it to history no-one will miss it. Gallant is starting to show signs of wear already.

Gallant is winning with smoke & mirrors, IMO. If someone told us before the season started we'd be in a battle for the division lead at the AS break, I think most of us wouldn't have believed it, but we all would've signed up.

Look at it this way, we're dressing an AHL bottom 6 at this point with a top 6 is featuring either Hunt, Gauthier, Goodrow & sometimes a combination of two of them playing 1RW & 2RW. We also rotate Laffy in the top 6, but he's not creating anything resembling top 6 production besides his occasional tap in.

Sure there are some lineup decisions that I don't agree with, but in his defense he was brought here with the pressure to win now. I'm sure he's just trying to juggle his lines to find something that might click. We have an egregious lack of depth, plus we're a terrible skating team that plays just as slow as we skate. What Gallant ran in Vegas, I'm sure he'd love to replicate here, but we simply don't have the roster to make it work.

 

[CLW]

Gallant is winning with smoke & mirrors, IMO. If someone told us before the season started we'd be in a battle for the division lead at the AS break, I think most of us wouldn't have believed it, but we all would've signed up.

Look at it this way, we're dressing an AHL bottom 6 at this point with a top 6 is featuring either Hunt, Gauthier, Goodrow & sometimes a combination of two of them playing 1RW & 2RW. We also rotate Laffy in the top 6, but he's not creating anything resembling top 6 production besides his occasional tap in.

Sure there are some lineup decisions that I don't agree with, but in his defense he was brought here with the pressure to win now. I'm sure he's just trying to juggle his lines to find something that might click. We have an egregious lack of depth, plus we're a terrible skating team that plays just as slow as we skate. What Gallant ran in Vegas, I'm sure he'd love to replicate here, but we simply don't have the roster to make it work.

I know there are injuries. I know the team has stars that the majority of teams do not and can live off that to a large extent etc. But really this team is not that bad a skating team. It's a bad skating team because it doesn't skate, it doesn't move the puck efficiently, the players trip each other up, the players don't support each other or the puck carrier etc etc. Also there can be no excuse for not skating, if so that lies on Drury who had an entire off season to fix such issues. I don't think we should try to be Vegas, it's evident the roster is not built like that but just what is the plan? The team has been poor all season apart from the goaltending and the special teams. The Smoke & Mirrors really is to play don't let in a goal and let the PP and goalie edge the win. But there has to be more than that.

If there was one thing I expected from Gallant (and Drury) after he took over from Quinn was better structure and coordination as a team. Watching the Panthers tonight they play as a 5 man unit, whatever they are doing they are doing all in and all 5 of them. They are definitely not playing - let no goal in - hockey, but at least it's very entertaining to watch, and admirable because they do it as a team and with cohesion and with tempo. Even expansion Seattle with 4 lines of 3rd liners played with much more support and cohesion, even if they could not match the talent of the Rangers. If they had had even two first line level players they would have buried the Rangers. In contrast it looks like the Rangers are not even really trying to move the puck with purpose. I don't understand.

I'm not attacking Gallant, I'm sure this is not at all his preferred choice but I also want to see things go in the right direction with the team. It's fine to wing it and get the points. Up to a point.

 

[egelband]

It's hard to be a hockey player with a lobster bar and cashmere robe pre-game.

Nice imagery. I’m adding snifters, by the way.