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Oakland A's to play in Sacramento for a few years while Las Vegas stadium is built

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BigBadBruins7708 said:
FWIW Allegiant had the highest "non resident" ticket revenue in the world in 2022 at $182m over 24 events.

Non resident revenue is events that aren't the resident team, so excluding The Raiders.

There will always be a need for more venues in town. It helps the As as well on non sport events that their stadium is free during football season.

www.8newsnow.com

Allegiant Stadium ranks as top-grossing in world

Billboard magazine has published its 2022 year-end boxscore charts and Las Vegas venues are represented well. The magazine has ranked the stadiums and venues that made the most money this year and …
www.8newsnow.com www.8newsnow.com
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Neither Raiders nor UNLV Rebel football are included in those calculations.
 
Non-resident revenue isn't "building a fan base."

Bryce Harper nails it: Vegas wants their own teams; not necessarily "someone else's. The city has embraced the Knights as "Vegas Born," while the Raiders and A's have switched cities a combined eight times.

During the lead-up to the NHL expansion, dozens and dozens of people said that Vegas would be too reliant on visiting fans to be a successful market; and they were dead wrong about the NHL team; but it's a lot more accurate for carpet-bagging franchises.

The A's should WANT to leave the name with Oakland and rebrand.
 
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KevFu said:
Non-resident revenue isn't "building a fan base."

Bryce Harper nails it: Vegas wants their own teams; not necessarily "someone else's. The city has embraced the Knights as "Vegas Born," while the Raiders and A's have switched cities a combined eight times.

During the lead-up to the NHL expansion, dozens and dozens of people said that Vegas would be too reliant on visiting fans to be a successful market; and they were dead wrong about the NHL team; but it's a lot more accurate for carpet-bagging franchises.

The A's should WANT to leave the name with Oakland and rebrand.
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No but it is a direct revenue stream into the owner's pocket and means there isnt a risk of repayments to the state/county/city being missed. Plus that was in response to a question about how Allegiant does on non football events.
 
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Yeah, I don't think the Athletics are going to be a disaster in Las Vegas... I think they'll be like the Diamondbacks. They'll draw okay, they'll have fans. But the market will also just have a ton of people who are fans of other teams instead.

It's going to take a decade before the "Las Vegas Athletics" doesn't sound WEIRD to people.
Then it's going to take multiple decades more before they reach the stage that the Oakland Athletics are in: Where no one really thinks of them as "Kansas City/Philadelphia's old team."


The people of Vegas might like football and baseball more than hockey, but the Knights will be special to them because they're (a) first and (b) "Vegas Born" and not "someone else's team.

And it's highly doubtful the Las Vegas Athletics ever do things that will really entrench them/put down roots in the community and make them "Vegas' team" because their owner is a PR nightmare.
 
KevFu said:
Yeah, I don't think the Athletics are going to be a disaster in Las Vegas... I think they'll be like the Diamondbacks. They'll draw okay, they'll have fans. But the market will also just have a ton of people who are fans of other teams instead.

It's going to take a decade before the "Las Vegas Athletics" doesn't sound WEIRD to people.
Then it's going to take multiple decades more before they reach the stage that the Oakland Athletics are in: Where no one really thinks of them as "Kansas City/Philadelphia's old team."


The people of Vegas might like football and baseball more than hockey, but the Knights will be special to them because they're (a) first and (b) "Vegas Born" and not "someone else's team.

And it's highly doubtful the Las Vegas Athletics ever do things that will really entrench them/put down roots in the community and make them "Vegas' team" because their owner is a PR nightmare.
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I wonder if it will be more like Miami with the way Fisher is mismanaging this franchise. Feels almost like Jeffrey Loria has his fingerprints all over this. Both with the absolute dismantling of the team (ala Expos) and getting a crooked deal on a stadium (ala Marlins).
 
KevFu said:
Yeah, I don't think the Athletics are going to be a disaster in Las Vegas... I think they'll be like the Diamondbacks. They'll draw okay, they'll have fans. But the market will also just have a ton of people who are fans of other teams instead.

It's going to take a decade before the "Las Vegas Athletics" doesn't sound WEIRD to people.
Then it's going to take multiple decades more before they reach the stage that the Oakland Athletics are in: Where no one really thinks of them as "Kansas City/Philadelphia's old team."


The people of Vegas might like football and baseball more than hockey, but the Knights will be special to them because they're (a) first and (b) "Vegas Born" and not "someone else's team.

And it's highly doubtful the Las Vegas Athletics ever do things that will really entrench them/put down roots in the community and make them "Vegas' team" because their owner is a PR nightmare.
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VGK also has a significant advantage in that they’re a winning franchise.
 
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Bucky_Hoyt said:
I wonder if it will be more like Miami with the way Fisher is mismanaging this franchise. Feels almost like Jeffrey Loria has his fingerprints all over this. Both with the absolute dismantling of the team (ala Expos) and getting a crooked deal on a stadium (ala Marlins).
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Yes, I agree 100% with the "off field" comparison to Miami. Fisher and Loria are definitely comparables.

The reason I picked Arizona was because I think that's what Vegas crowds will be like.

Both Arizona and Miami have a lot of people in the market who came from somewhere else and maintained a loyalty to their own team. But Loria's running of the Marlins basically made people not want to support him or the team anymore. Arizona's made some BAD decisions, but nothing like the four major firesales in Miami.

Miami is probably what you'd get from Oakland fans if Fisher cut a deal for a new stadium at Howard Terminal. They'd show up for big moments, but so many A's fans would be like "I'm not giving this guy any money" and when he sold the team, they'd all come back in droves.

In Vegas, yeah, there's a ton of transplants. But there's something about the Vegas "Lifestyle" that people who move there just embrace (New Orleans is the same way), where you're identifying more with your choice than where you're from. So I think their attendance will be a lot better than Miami. They'll have a couple years of "We have a team now!" good crowds, and then the A's will probably be better because the owner will have to spend some money.
 
KevFu said:
Yes, I agree 100% with the "off field" comparison to Miami. Fisher and Loria are definitely comparables.

The reason I picked Arizona was because I think that's what Vegas crowds will be like.

Both Arizona and Miami have a lot of people in the market who came from somewhere else and maintained a loyalty to their own team. But Loria's running of the Marlins basically made people not want to support him or the team anymore. Arizona's made some BAD decisions, but nothing like the four major firesales in Miami.

Miami is probably what you'd get from Oakland fans if Fisher cut a deal for a new stadium at Howard Terminal. They'd show up for big moments, but so many A's fans would be like "I'm not giving this guy any money" and when he sold the team, they'd all come back in droves.

In Vegas, yeah, there's a ton of transplants. But there's something about the Vegas "Lifestyle" that people who move there just embrace (New Orleans is the same way), where you're identifying more with your choice than where you're from. So I think their attendance will be a lot better than Miami. They'll have a couple years of "We have a team now!" good crowds, and then the A's will probably be better because the owner will have to spend some money.
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Fair comparison but I wouldn't exactly say fans showed up in droves after Loria split from the Marlins so not sure that would happen with Fisher out of the picture. The Marlins are typically bottom 4 in attendance and are second worst (11k avg) this year with a playoff potential team and some great WBC games. Loria's been gone for 6 years.

Personally, I think this Vegas move is a pump and dump and Fisher is gone a few years into the team playing in the new stadium. Maybe then, the acrimony wanes when he's out but not sure if the team rebounds. In today's socially connected world, Fisher has gotten WAAYYY more bad press than Loria did and I would argue Loria was far, far worse of an owner. Though I guess 12k sitting in a 30k building looks better than in a 37k one. ;-)
 
Bucky_Hoyt said:
Fair comparison but I wouldn't exactly say fans showed up in droves after Loria split from the Marlins so not sure that would happen with Fisher out of the picture. The Marlins are typically bottom 4 in attendance and are second worst (11k avg) this year with a playoff potential team and some great WBC games. Loria's been gone for 6 years.

Personally, I think this Vegas move is a pump and dump and Fisher is gone a few years into the team playing in the new stadium. Maybe then, the acrimony wanes when he's out but not sure if the team rebounds. In today's socially connected world, Fisher has gotten WAAYYY more bad press than Loria did and I would argue Loria was far, far worse of an owner. Though I guess 12k sitting in a 30k building looks better than in a 37k one. ;-)
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I think the main difference between Miami and the A's in Vegas...

Florida has had spring training in the state for centuries, and you also have a very sizable Cuban exile population in Miami. So there's PLENTY of baseball fans in Miami, but their loyalty is either to their long-time favorite Citrus League team or the game itself;

Winning over those fans to becoming lifelong Miami Marlins fans was just not done in the time that Wayne Huizinga owned the team then firesale of the roster the first time (Including Livan Hernandez).

It was hardly attempted during Loria's carpetbagging terrible ownership, with THREE more firesales.

It sounds very oversimplified, but they probably would have 15,000 die-hard fans who are there every night if they simply made everyone subject to firesales EXCEPT Livan Hernandez (First Firesale) and Miguel Cabrera (Second Firesale).


The A's don't have that problem in Oakland. They hate Fisher but LOVE THE As.

The stadium has been a dump since Mount Davis (or before then). You drop a new stadium in Oakland at any time from 2000-2023 and the fans are back unless Fisher keeps the firesale routine. (And it's easily argued that Fisher never GETS the A's if a new stadium was built first).

Fisher is going to have to do work to win over Las Vegas, but between the grace period of just getting a new team/new stadium -- plus in Vegas, he'll be on the revenue sharing train again, he can spend that money on players -- and the fact that his roster woes will be blamed by the Vegas fanbase on OAKLAND having terrible attendance/financials; he's in a much better position than a new owner of the Marlins trying to win over the locals.

Bucky_Hoyt said:
I doubt it's anywhere but the Aviators stadium. Just expect all night games from May each season until the new stadium gets built.

The off chance it's not Vegas from 2025, could the Giants block the A's from playing in Sacramento as it's their AAA team?
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The Giants couldn't block the A's from playing in Sacramento unless they control the lease of the stadium.
 
KevFu said:
And it's highly doubtful the Las Vegas Athletics ever do things that will really entrench them/put down roots in the community and make them "Vegas' team" because their owner is a PR nightmare.
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They are legally required to give back $2m+ to community per season from the recent stadium agreement.
 
LadyStanley said:
They are legally required to give back $2m+ to community per season from the recent stadium agreement.
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Just cuz you donate to the community, that doesn't make you an altruist. As far as we know, those are almost entirely going to be tickets, which has been the current plan in Oakland.
 
I've said it once and I'll say it again, this should have the City, County and the States response to the A's

533825.jpg
 
Timeline of the ballot initiative according to the Independent.

*************

To get an initiative or referendum on the ballot that proposes or repeals language for state law, a petitioner must obtain signatures from at least 10 percent of the voters in the previous general election — meaning that at least 102,586 signatures are needed to get an initiative or referendum on the 2024 ballot. At least 25,647 signatures would need to come from each of the state’s four congressional districts.

Petitioners would need to file with the secretary of state no earlier than Aug. 1, then within 10 business days, the secretary of state would post a copy of the petition, and petitioners could begin collecting signatures. The petitioners must collect and submit signatures by July 8, 2024.

If a petition receives enough signatures and a simple majority of Nevadans vote in favor of the corresponding ballot question, it would pass and change state law.

*********

If successful in collecting the ballots, this would put the project in limbo til after their final regular season on the lease with the city they're burning bridges with

Could be a nice trainwreck on the way
 
KevFu said:
Yeah, I don't think the Athletics are going to be a disaster in Las Vegas... I think they'll be like the Diamondbacks. They'll draw okay, they'll have fans. But the market will also just have a ton of people who are fans of other teams instead.

It's going to take a decade before the "Las Vegas Athletics" doesn't sound WEIRD to people.
Then it's going to take multiple decades more before they reach the stage that the Oakland Athletics are in: Where no one really thinks of them as "Kansas City/Philadelphia's old team."


The people of Vegas might like football and baseball more than hockey, but the Knights will be special to them because they're (a) first and (b) "Vegas Born" and not "someone else's team.

And it's highly doubtful the Las Vegas Athletics ever do things that will really entrench them/put down roots in the community and make them "Vegas' team" because their owner is a PR nightmare.
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This is all assuming Fisher will try to field a winning product.
 
www.reviewjournal.com

A’s to Vegas: What’s next in the relocation process?

The Oakland Athletics have secured up to $380 million in public financing for a planned Las Vegas ballpark, but steps remain before shovels hit the ground.
www.reviewjournal.com www.reviewjournal.com

What's next.... Relocation submission to MLB committee, then recommendation to MLB exec/commish. Then LV stadium authority (next scheduled meeting 8/24) gets involved.

Then bond process starts. A's have to pony up first $100m before any public funds come into play.
 
I understand the Mayor's position. And quite honestly, I understand the A's and MLB's position...

A deal in Oakland should have gotten done a LONG TIME AGO. But you can't change that.

Since Oakland has had 20 to 25 years more than reasonably expected to build a new stadium, the A's are right to want to GTFO. Where MLB screwed up royally is firmly backing that position instead of keeping the LEAGUE'S prerogatives in mind. MLB needed to broker a deal in Oakland, period. It's inexcusable that they hadn't.

As a Mets fan, I want Steve Cohen to build a damned stadium in Oakland NOW to keep the A's there. It's in our interest as Mets fans that the A's don't leave. I don't need the Giants turning into the Dodgers North -- which they will over the next 50 years, without the A's dividing that massive market in half.
 
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