Proposal: NYR-STL(Shatty)

[WalterSobchak]

Ah, the classic case of undervaluing a great player because the team has to part ways with him due to money.

Shatty is a great offensive player. His defense is good to adequate but Pietrangelo is a better player. Don't doubt Blues fans would love to keep Shatty and we aren't devaluing him...he's just not the Blues best player.

He's arguably the Blues best "fantasy" player though, so if that is your standard then you are correct. But in any given game situation where the Blues are looking for an advantage on the ice, Pietrangelo is on the ice and Shatty is on the bench.

 

[bernmeister]

OP's proposal is terrible. But assuming the Rangers are actually going after Shattenkirk, what are they dangling? They're not willing to give up Buch or Skjei (management has called both untouchable), all our RFAs resigned so I don't think they'd be part of the deal, and the Rangers aren't going to trade any more firsts. My guess is that they have to be dangling Nash at 30-50% retained + other pieces (Fast, Klein, Lindberg?) to try and land Shattenkirk. The Blues wouldn't be adding Steen though, that's for sure.

OP is way way off, but I don't believe it is with malice in his heart. I think his thinking on Klein was,
they are losing a rental
Klein is productive, cheap and 2 yrs remaining
has to be significant add vs. the x factor of Nash...

this is disaster for NYR.

1. It remains to be seen what is the best offer for Nash, individually or in a package, presumably Zuc. However, St. Lou DOES NOT WANT NASH.
You would think for the right #, they'd go or at least kick the tires.
But no.

I have come to the conclusion they only fit is Stepan, and that is a likely no because we can get equal or better value elsewhere, and gamble on Shattenkirk for free post season. Also, no matter the scenario, Shattenkirk can not extend or originally sign with NY until THE DAY AFTER THE EXPANSION DRAFT. At that point, yes, I punch his ticket the full boat, but not before.

I don't think the Rangers are considering trading Stepan after trading Brassard, would leave us really thin at center.

Stepan isnt tradable after the Brassard trade unless its for a center thats better/has better potential than Stepan.

The Rangers are CERTAIN to trade Stepan, if for no other reason because he earns an NMC which kicks in after this season, and to defeat that a deal must be made this year. While it's not like there is killer pressure to do this immediately, if we wait too long the trading partner starts to get an edge by playing coy to lower the price. No, just move him.

As to 'we get thin' or 'must acquire a better C', this is stinkin thinkin. We must make a profitable trade. They can't all be like Brassard going and we get back not just a younger C but one who is righty, etc. That is the exception to the rule.

Create the very best team you can by constantly upgrading assets. If you are temporarily thin in one area, you hope your strengths in others offset it until you can upgrade the weak link. But you have to keep upgrading.

 

[RangerGuru]

I actually think Nash would fit well in St. Louis, but this is an awful proposal.

I'd counter with:

NYR: Shattenkirk, T. Thompson, +
STL: McDonagh

Rangers get their RHD, a really good young winger with upside and a pick or two perhaps.

Blues get an amazing partner for Pietro or Parayko.

No thanks

Fill one hole by making a huge one somewhere else and downgrading massively not to mention the 1 year deal vs Macs team friendly deal

I don't think there's a deal to be made by the two teams for shattenkirk at all. 4 threads of straight bickering between STL and NYR fans in the last few days have proven that

 

[Majorityof1]

Ah, the classic case of undervaluing a great player because the team has to part ways with him due to money.

Shattenkirk wants Pietrangelo type money. If Shattenkirk was better than Petro, they would trade Petro (for a gigantic haul) and re-sign Shatty. You have no argument here....none. Petro would have gotten us Draisaitl + 4th OA at the minimum from Edmonton. Instead we are arguing over which NYR scraps to take for Shatty. Why would we go that route if Shattenkirk was better? We wouldn't. Pietrangelo is head and shoulders, and then a guy standing on those shoulders above Shattenkirk.

 

[CanadienShark]

Shattenkirk >>> Klein
Steen > Nash

One team declines... Probably the Rangers.

OP's proposal is terrible. But assuming the Rangers are actually going after Shattenkirk, what are they dangling? They're not willing to give up Buch or Skjei (management has called both untouchable), all our RFAs resigned so I don't think they'd be part of the deal, and the Rangers aren't going to trade any more firsts. My guess is that they have to be dangling Nash at 30-50% retained + other pieces (Fast, Klein, Lindberg?) to try and land Shattenkirk. The Blues wouldn't be adding Steen though, that's for sure.

Totally off topic... Can't stand Kanye as a person, but one in every 10 of his songs is amazing. Life of Pablo has 2.5 great songs imo. FML sucks half way through.

 

[Savant]

Rangers wait until he hits FA

 

[Majorityof1]

Rangers wait until he hits FA

So glad we have someone from the Rangers to come here and let us know, in every thread.

 

[BA Carroll]

Rangers trade Kreider and Tambellini for Shattenkirk, Jaskin and a 2nd round pick

 

[Dbrownss]

Rangers wait until he hits FA

So, 8yrs after he signs with the team he's traded to?

 

[KirkOut]

Rangers trade Kreider and Tambellini for Shattenkirk, Jaskin and a 2nd round pick.

my god that is just ****ing terrible

 

[bleedblue1223]

East fans should stop talking about the gap between Petro and Shatty.

 

[Majorityof1]

Rangers trade Kreider and Tambellini for Shattenkirk, Jaskin and a 2nd round pick.

Dude, just stop. You have 92 posts and over half of them are about getting Kreider on the Blues. We get it. You like the guy. Its a ridiculous obsession, but whatever, that's your cross to bear. Just please stop posting these horrendous trades all the time.

 

[BA Carroll]

Dude, just stop. You have 92 posts and over half of them are about getting Kreider on the Blues. We get it. You like the guy. Its a ridiculous obsession, but whatever, that's your cross to bear. Just please stop posting these horrendous trades all the time.

Yes, I've been a broken record. Sorry about that.
Fair warning: until the situation resolves, I'm likely to continue.
I'm not in the habit of getting run off just because someone doesn't like what I have to say. If it really bothers you, I'm pretty sure this site has an "ignore" or "block" feature.

Regardless, what, specifically, is so "horrendous" about that proposal?
While there are plenty of reasons why a fan of either team might not like a Shattenkirk for Kreider deal, most seem to agree that in terms of value, it's close. Most are in agreement that Shattenkirk would sign any reasonable deal to stay in NYR--and the Blues have made it known that suitors can discuss contract with Shattenkirk, so any deal would almost certainly be contingent on a new contract anyway.

Tambellini tore up the AHL last year, but he's still unproven. Jaskin isn't a scrub--he's got size, he works hard, he showed his scoring touch in the AHL also--and he has NHL experience.

So, perhaps you'd prefer a first round pick, or maybe a stud defensive prospect, or a Barbashev to sweeten the deal. Or maybe you just want nothing to do with Shattenkirk at any price. That's fair--there are plenty of StL fans who say the same about Kreider. If that's your schtick, then say so. But if you're going to argue that a proposal is "horrible", then you need you spell out why--or better yet, offer a counter proposal that you think is better.

 

[KirkOut]

Yes, I've been a broken record. Sorry about that.
Fair warning: until the situation resolves, I'm likely to continue.
I'm not in the habit of getting run off just because someone doesn't like what I have to say. If it really bothers you, I'm pretty sure this site has an "ignore" or "block" feature.

Regardless, what, specifically, is so "horrendous" about that proposal?
While there are plenty of reasons why a fan of either team might not like a Shattenkirk for Kreider deal, most seem to agree that in terms of value, it's close. Most are in agreement that Shattenkirk would sign any reasonable deal to stay in NYR--and the Blues have made it known that suitors can discuss contract with Shattenkirk, so any deal would almost certainly be contingent on a new contract anyway.

Tambellini tore up the AHL last year, but he's still unproven. Jaskin isn't a scrub--he's got size, he works hard, he showed his scoring touch in the AHL also--and he has NHL experience.

So, perhaps you'd prefer a first round pick, or maybe a stud defensive prospect, or a Barbashev to sweeten the deal. Or maybe you just want nothing to do with Shattenkirk at any price. That's fair--there are plenty of StL fans who say the same about Kreider. If that's your schtick, then say so. But if you're going to argue that a proposal is "horrible", then you need you spell out why--or better yet, offer a counter proposal that you think is better.

Lol Majority is a Blues fan calling it horrible for the Blues because it is horrible for the Blues

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Shattenkirk >>> Klein
Steen > Nash

One team declines... Probably the Rangers.

Steen can't play a full 82 games. Nash is also coming off the worst season of his career. They are about even players. Different players, but probably even players.

We don't even need Steen.

You could make it Nash+Klein for Shattenkirk, and thats probably a fair trade, although Blues fans might not think the trade makes sense. The value is fair though.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Rangers trade Kreider and Tambellini for Shattenkirk, Jaskin and a 2nd round pick.

Why would we trade Kreider for a rental?

 

[Majorityof1]

Yes, I've been a broken record. Sorry about that.
Fair warning: until the situation resolves, I'm likely to continue.
I'm not in the habit of getting run off just because someone doesn't like what I have to say. If it really bothers you, I'm pretty sure this site has an "ignore" or "block" feature.

Regardless, what, specifically, is so "horrendous" about that proposal?
While there are plenty of reasons why a fan of either team might not like a Shattenkirk for Kreider deal, most seem to agree that in terms of value, it's close. Most are in agreement that Shattenkirk would sign any reasonable deal to stay in NYR--and the Blues have made it known that suitors can discuss contract with Shattenkirk, so any deal would almost certainly be contingent on a new contract anyway.

Tambellini tore up the AHL last year, but he's still unproven. Jaskin isn't a scrub--he's got size, he works hard, he showed his scoring touch in the AHL also--and he has NHL experience.

So, perhaps you'd prefer a first round pick, or maybe a stud defensive prospect, or a Barbashev to sweeten the deal. Or maybe you just want nothing to do with Shattenkirk at any price. That's fair--there are plenty of StL fans who say the same about Kreider. If that's your schtick, then say so. But if you're going to argue that a proposal is "horrible", then you need you spell out why--or better yet, offer a counter proposal that you think is better.

As Kirk said, I'm a Blues fan.

Shattenkirk > Kreider
Jaskin > Tambellini
2nd > nothing

We lose everywhere.

And to stem the Jaskin > Tambellini argument, when Jaskin was Tambelini's age in in the AHL, Jaskin put up 29 points in 42 games compared to Tambellini's 32 in 74 (hardly tearing it up). Finally, Jaskin plays a much better 2-way game. So, NHL experience, better AHL pedigree, and better 2-way play. I'll take Jaskin 10 times out of 10.

 

[RangerGuru]

Rangers pass on a Kreider Shattenkirk based deal. He just signed a new extension today - they will not deal him for a rental. Deal Shattenkirk somewhere else (assuming Nash is of no interest) or keep him and NYR will look at him next summer. No need to deal young assets for him

 

[Sean Aviary]

From a Rangers fan:

If the Blues know he's interested in going to STL long term, the #1 guy they'd be going for would be Buchnevich. Both teams consider each to be a big asset. Though not the main consideration, it also helps that the Blues have a Russian star playing the opposite side and the Rangers don't have a Russian speaker in the NHL/AHL at all.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

The Rangers are CERTAIN to trade Stepan, if for no other reason because he earns an NMC which kicks in after this season, and to defeat that a deal must be made this year.

Yeah you are full of it. Stepan is part of the core. Whether you like it or not he's not going to be moved.

 

[smoneil]

The Rangers are CERTAIN to trade Stepan, if for no other reason because he earns an NMC which kicks in after this season, and to defeat that a deal must be made this year. While it's not like there is killer pressure to do this immediately, if we wait too long the trading partner starts to get an edge by playing coy to lower the price. No, just move him.

No, Bern, the Rangers are certain NOT to trade Stepan. They could trade Stepan OR Brassard--not both. They chose. You don't like Stepan. As such, you make up interesting theories on why you think the team agrees with you. I can pretty much assure you that the team doesn't agree with you.

Yes, Stepan has a NMC that kicks in next year. He has it because he's a 25 year old #1 center who also does yeoman's work shutting down the opposition's top lines. He's a bargain and will be part of the new leadership group. He's going nowhere.

In two years, Kreider's NTC kicks in. Do we need to trade him before then? If your answer (as it surely will be) is no, then you need to step back and realize that you are letting your own fan bias (pro for Kreider and con for Stepan) impact your posts. That's fine. We all have favorite players. But you've got to stop acting as if your biases are based on logic and fact, because they aren't.


IF the Rangers make another move, it will almost certainly be situated around players like Nash and Klein (though I think both will have more value closer to the trade deadline). If fortune smiles on us, we might find a taker for G and Staal (though I think they can bounce back under a new coach).

 

[smoneil]

From a Rangers fan:

If the Blues know he's interested in going to STL long term, the #1 guy they'd be going for would be Buchnevich. Both teams consider each to be a big asset. Though not the main consideration, it also helps that the Blues have a Russian star playing the opposite side and the Rangers don't have a Russian speaker in the NHL/AHL at all.

Can't do it. The Rangers need to hold on to their high end youth. If that means losing out on Shattenkirk, so be it. I don't think STL should be boned on a Shattenkirk trade. I just don't think the Rangers should be ponying up what STL thinks the price should be. They can't afford to give up the kinds of pieces STL fans will want.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think the Rangers have learned their lesson from the Yandle and Staal trades on trading top prospects for players with less than two years left on their contract.

 

[Sean Aviary]

Yeah, that's why it's not happening right now. It's great to anticipate that he's interested in playing near home, but there's no reason a team coming off of a strong season is selling a top player without a top return. It's Hitchcock's last year, after all, so their mindset right now is that they're all in.

 

[KirkOut]

I like how Shattenkirk is just going to sign with the Rangers after next season without them having to give up any assets for him while simultaneously being a rental in the case that they trade for him.