Proposal: NYR-STL(Shatty)

[KirkOut]

would the blues be interested in something around

girardi with 10% retained (more?) & jt miller
for
shattenkirk+?

is there even a plus from st.louis? LOVE millers game and he'd be great on the blues. i do feel the rags would likely want a roster player. perron, steen, lehtera. give or take from either side or do it clean, there's a deal to finagle here.

Um. Maybe consider both teams instead of just one.

 

[SirGoose]

Um. Maybe consider both teams instead of just one.

i thought i was

im a big fan of miller. he's a nice young cheap piece that would replace some of the soon to go vets in stlouis. girardi is a good dman and will play the right side. posters here are ridiculous with how they talk about him, hes a hitting/blocking machine and would keep the defense together. girardi retained becomes a fan favorite anywhere he goes, hes simply not the right piece for the rangers right now with the style theyre trying (should be) to gravitate to. no puckmovers, but really outside of a very select few, (stepan, mcdonagh, buchnevich, zib) the rangers can be flexible and pony up.

skjei and miller is likely a much more attractive offer, but the rangers still need to clear space for shatt's contract. perhaps thats a different deal.

 

[Frenzy31]

i thought i was

im a big fan of miller. he's a nice young cheap piece that would replace some of the soon to go vets in stlouis. girardi is a good dman and will play the right side. posters here are ridiculous with how they talk about him, hes a hitting/blocking machine and would keep the defense together. girardi retained becomes a fan favorite anywhere he goes, hes simply not the right piece for the rangers right now with the style theyre trying (should be) to gravitate to. no puckmovers, but really outside of a very select few, (stepan, mcdonagh, buchnevich, zib) the rangers can be flexible and pony up.

skjei and miller is likely a much more attractive offer, but the rangers still need to clear space for shatt's contract. perhaps thats a different deal.

Teams aren't going to trade the Rangers the best player in the deal and take a cap dump in return. That is just terrible. Blues fan's are not idiots - you can't sell us Girardi as a fan favorite or a solid dman at this point. And the 10% retention is a joke.

 

[SirGoose]

i dont think skjei and miller for shattenkirk is a bad deal for anyone

 

[Frenzy31]

i dont think skjei and miller for shattenkirk is a bad deal for anyone

Well that is a fair offer. Just the Girardi inclusion was kind of like trying to dress up a dog.

 

[Majorityof1]

i thought i was

im a big fan of miller. he's a nice young cheap piece that would replace some of the soon to go vets in stlouis. girardi is a good dman and will play the right side. posters here are ridiculous with how they talk about him, hes a hitting/blocking machine and would keep the defense together. girardi retained becomes a fan favorite anywhere he goes, hes simply not the right piece for the rangers right now with the style theyre trying (should be) to gravitate to. no puckmovers, but really outside of a very select few, (stepan, mcdonagh, buchnevich, zib) the rangers can be flexible and pony up.

skjei and miller is likely a much more attractive offer, but the rangers still need to clear space for shatt's contract. perhaps thats a different deal.

You really weren't considering the Blues. They have zero need for Girardi. Even ignoring the contract, they are moving Shattenkirk because the right side is full with Pietrangelo and Parayko, plus Schmaltz having a good AHL season last year and being on the brink. Girardi would be a 3rd pairing guy this year and be a 7th D next year. He may have been good once, but those days are past. He is in decline and will continue to do so. Now add the contract back in. Its a bad contract even with 10%. He is a negative value asset. You know this. Guys who are rumored to be buy-out candidates generally don't have any trade value. Most of Miller's value is offsetting Girardi. You don't get much more than future considerations for that package. Cap space is too important to take on almost $8M in salary for a 3rd line center and 3rd pairing D, even if the center has upside. If we sent you one of our cap dumps in Lehtera, it would make things more palatable but still not good. Lehtera is only slightly overpaid and has a small chance to actually improve, whereas Girardi is just going to get worse.

 

[Moon Knight]

i dont think skjei and miller for shattenkirk is a bad deal for anyone

Awful for the Rangers though.

Skjei and Miller are two of the more important young players the Rangers are counting on the for the future.

 

[Rorschach]

Shattenkirk is a major contributor on the Blues. Pietrangelo IS the Blues.

Backes, Oshie, Shattenkirk, Elliott, MacDonald, the Blues will survive losing all of these players. Not Pie though.

 

[RangerGuru]

No thanks on Skjei and Miller for Shattenkirk. Do not want at the expense of young players this team should be collecting more of. If that's the price, please go ahead and deal him to someone else.

 

[bernmeister]

....

Bern, this right here is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about. You are putting Kreider and MacKinnon on a similar level. If, in the unlikely event that Colorado ever chooses to trade MacKinnon, it wouldn't be for Kreider +. Kreider would BE the plus, not the centerpiece.

MacKinnon is five years younger, plays the more valuable position and two of his three seasons saw him put up better numbers than Kreider's career highs (and if MacK hadn't missed ~20 games, all three of his seasons would have been higher than Kreider's career high).

Knowing all of that, you STILL seem like you would balk at the swap. You are not objective at all where Kreider is concerned. it goes back to what I said before--you make up "facts" that justify why your favorite players can never be traded and players you dislike NEED to be traded.

yes, macK is better. You ignore my point. the idea is to unify a Kreider who you already have w/a penultimate PF on the right; Ovie you won't get, MacK almost impossible to get.

I was thinking, by the way, of the core of that being McDonagh. I am on record of seeking Mc for Mac w/+s on both sides.

You went nuts cause I shorthanded it as Kreider + to prove there are exceptions to the rule. But the rule again is you add, don't swap potentially dominant players; not likely to be enuf gain except at prohibitive cost.

Case in point, Derek Stepan--the player you think has "plateaued"--is only 10 months older than Kreider. Here are some hard cold facts: He has played six seasons, to Kreider's four. Stepan has four seasons with higher numbers than Kreider's career high--while also being far better on the defensive side of the game. The two seasons where Stepan was below Kreider's career year were his rookie year, where a 20 year old Stepan was exactly one point off of Kreider's high mark, and the lockout year, where Stepan put up 44 points in 48 games. In other words, basically every single one of Stepan's seasons has seen him be at worst equal to, and more often than not BETTER than Kreider's career highs.

Stepan IS the significantly better player, and I don't really see that changing. You need to stop acting like Kreider is on par with MacKinnon and that Stepan is hot garbage. It's not based on anything factual, and you are literally the only person who believes it.

let us be polite and say we agree to disagree

But but but Kreider is big.

And keeps us from being the Canadiens!

He almost never sounds logical, only biased. Great post

not enough time to go on for page after page in reply.

The fact is, I pushed we should have flipped Girardi, Stepan and recently Staal, and obviously we would have been much better if we had.

Consider yourself rebuffed

 

[Dijock94]

i dont think skjei and miller for shattenkirk is a bad deal for anyone

That is not a fair deal whatsoever.

 

[ThisYearsModel]

i dont think skjei and miller for shattenkirk is a bad deal for anyone

Yeah, not a good deal from the Rangers POV. 2 young , inexpensive NHLers under team control for awhile. Not in this cap-driven NHL. Shattenkirk will be expensive and the Rangers need controllable and contributing youth. They would never do this.

 

[NewLife]

Rangers can absolutly not spend premium assets and cash for him, sign as a FA sure but no trade. Trade for someone younger.

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

Klein (50% retained = 1.45M cap hit) is his 4x cheaper replacement, one of [Lindberg/Fast/Gropp/Nieves]plus OTT's 2nd and a 3rd from NYR in 2017 for Shattenkirk.

Not sure if STL gets a better deal than that at the deadline. And as likely contenders again, I'm not sure any team can give them a player like Klein who can immediately roll that role for pennies plus a prospect/young roster player and two good picks.

Only time will tell.

 

[SteenMachine]

Klein (50% retained = 1.45M cap hit) is his 4x cheaper replacement, one of [Lindberg/Fast/Gropp/Nieves]plus OTT's 2nd and a 3rd from NYR in 2017 for Shattenkirk.

Not sure if STL gets a better deal than that at the deadline. And as likely contenders again, I'm not sure any team can give them a player like Klein who can immediately roll that role for pennies plus a prospect/young roster player and two good picks.

Only time will tell.

Why would we be sellers at the TDL?

 

[BA Carroll]

You and others have clearly, repeatedly, argued that there is no scenario in which the Rangers will trade any of Kreider, Stepan, or any of your better prospects to acquire Shattenkirk.

You've consistently maintained that you won't invest anything of value to improve a position of weakness.

You've repeatedly asserted that you are willing to wait until Shattenkirk hits UFA status to roll the dice and see if you can land him then, since you're reconciled to tbe idea that your team isn't really competing this year.

Fine. Apart from the head scratching assumption that Kevin would even want to sign with a team that--by your own admission-- isn't really trying to compete, that's a perfectly coherent position to take. Foolish, perhaps, but coherent.

But turning around days later and pretending you can acquire the same player for beans, whether now or at the TDL, well... ya'all be trippin'.

 

[Machinehead]

would the blues be interested in something around

girardi with 10% retained (more?) & jt miller
for
shattenkirk+?

is there even a plus from st.louis? LOVE millers game and he'd be great on the blues. i do feel the rags would likely want a roster player. perron, steen, lehtera. give or take from either side or do it clean, there's a deal to finagle here.

Done.

Keep Shattenkirk.

Enjoy.

Merry Christmas.

 

[NYR425]

St. Louis/ NYR

Would St. Louis Blues be interested in a Zuccarello for Shattenkirk trade? From my understanding, Kevin has basically said he wants to only play for the Rangers. From a Ranger standpoint they could wait and just sign him as free agent after this coming season. But I believe working out a trade is in both teams best interests.

 

[KirkOut]

sure whatever, just make this Shattenkirk situation end

 

[bleedblue1223]

sure whatever, just make this Shattenkirk situation end

ditto...yada, yada, yada, show me where Shattenkirk has indicated that he only wants to go to the Rangers.

 

[AZviaNJ]

Would St. Louis Blues be interested in a Zuccarello for Shattenkirk trade? From my understanding, Kevin has basically said he wants to only play for the Rangers. From a Ranger standpoint they could wait and just sign him as free agent after this coming season. But I believe working out a trade is in both teams best interests.

why would the Rangers trade Zuc? Isnt he your best forward?

 

[bfaust30]

Really starting to think the eventual trade will be Nash at 30% + Klein + 5th rounder/Daniel Bernhardt or c level prospect for Shatty + Berglund.

 

[67Blues]

Really starting to think the eventual trade will be Nash at 30% + Klein + 5th rounder/Daniel Bernhardt or c level prospect for Shatty + Berglund.

Give one reason why the Blues would take any of those players that would improve the team. 5th rounder is a useless crapshoot. Nash is too expensive even at 30% retained, and Klien isn't a fit as we have young D who aren't going to be held back by Klien.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Would St. Louis Blues be interested in a Zuccarello for Shattenkirk trade? From my understanding, Kevin has basically said he wants to only play for the Rangers. From a Ranger standpoint they could wait and just sign him as free agent after this coming season. But I believe working out a trade is in both teams best interests.

Can someone please point me to why some folks believe this? Is it coming from some legit source? Someone guessing? Someone making it up and others running with it?

Thanks.

 

[bluetuned]

Would St. Louis Blues be interested in a Zuccarello for Shattenkirk trade? From my understanding, Kevin has basically said he wants to only play for the Rangers. From a Ranger standpoint they could wait and just sign him as free agent after this coming season. But I believe working out a trade is in both teams best interests.

I'm sure the Blues would take Zucc, but I don't see the Rangers wanting to trade him.

Shattenkirk has never said he'd only play for the Rangers. That's Rangers fans interjecting their own hopes/assumptions.

He's said it was his dream growing up to play for the Rangers, which makes sense since he grew up in the area. Every hockey playing kid dreams of playing for a certain team. Stamkos dreamed of playing for the Maple Leafs. How'd that work out? When you're a pro and millions of dollars and Stanley Cups are on the line, there's a lot more to it than who you rooted for as a kid.

What's probably true is that he'd prefer to play closer to home in the Northeast, but that's all. It's been pretty regularly reported that he'd consider Boston (he's a Boston U alum). The Islanders and Devils (played in the Devils youth organization as a kid) would also be logical destinations from his perspective. The Blues beat writer also said that Shattenkirk would be willing to sign with certain Western Conference teams as well, just not the Oilers (which came up when the Blues were talking with them near the draft).