Proposal: NYR-SJS

[Groo]

I'm not glad you and others require me to reassert clarifying correction to your statements. CONTINUOUSLY

"One team needs a C" -- ok, everybody besides LA could use one.

"a center and has RHD to make available in trades"
NO WRONG.
As explained, there is no surplus righty RD.
Nils is making the team, and provides needed righty PP shot specialty on top of general excellence.

Schneider is unavailable b'c we are gonna have to do something, whether he likes it or not, with Trouba long term. This season no prob. Next can likely juggle, after this, he has gotta be moved. His nmc is not for entire duration of contract. He would be asked, in exchange for us owing him a solid when he hangs up his skates, to let it go a year or two early. This is not a slam dunk given but is theoretically possible.
At that point, Schneid is the elc replacement for his big salary.

And why is that so critical?
b'c as explained....
Fox gets long term deal to constrain long term cap
AND
after this season
LaF + Kakko = elc ->rfa
with Kravtsov same following season

Stop ignoring this like it isn't reality for Rangers just b'c you want one of our bluest blue chip assets who is not available.

Jones is so in the mold of Fox, he is the only one who is truly redundant and hence available.

"yet this Bernmeister guy has gone on for multiple pages how Jones essentially isnt as good as his other prospects and therefore he'll only trade Jones"
others fit other needs
Jones is redundant given Fox
it is not a matter of better or not, that is a moot point.

if you speak truth and admit that, we are fine.
If you continue to ignore that, don't know what I can tell you.

Redundant doesn't get you a Hertl

 

[bernmeister]

I don't believe in compromise for its own sake.

However, there are some instances where it may make sense.

Rangers primary concern here is currency, less than value, although level of overpayment can't be crazy here.
We have strict limitations on what player assets can be made available, for reasons explained.

Sharks, with many holes to fill, appear to be reciprocal partner in need of value more than specific pieces.

How about this:
to SJ:
NYR 2022 1st
Jones
Strome
NYR 2023 7th that can morph into a conditional 1st

to NYR
Hertl as is, NY bears risk he extends
SJ 2023 + 2024 2nds

rationale:
2022 unprotected 1st
then Strome = mid-late 1st available at a discount of a 2nd
then similar Jones, ditto
note both these 2nds are pushed an extra year down the road

the conditional NY 7th rnd pick that morphs into a 2023 1st IF Hertl extends 4 years or less at 8-8.5 or better is like a bonus

as a concession NY will take the risk of Hertl's health while under contract


thoughts?

 

[Groo]

I don't believe in compromise for its own sake.

However, there are some instances where it may make sense.

Rangers primary concern here is currency, less than value, although level of overpayment can't be crazy here.
We have strict limitations on what player assets can be made available, for reasons explained.

Sharks, with many holes to fill, appear to be reciprocal partner in need of value more than specific pieces.

How about this:
to SJ:
NYR 2022 1st
Jones
Strome
NYR 2023 7th that can morph into a conditional 1st

to NYR
Hertl as is, NY bears risk he extends
SJ 2023 + 2024 2nds

rationale:
2022 unprotected 1st
then Strome = mid-late 1st available at a discount of a 2nd
then similar Jones, ditto
note both these 2nds are pushed an extra year down the road

the conditional NY 7th rnd pick that morphs into a 2023 1st IF Hertl extends 4 years or less at 8-8.5 or better is like a bonus

as a concession NY will take the risk of Hertl's health while under contract


thoughts?

No sale

 

[bernmeister]

So I didn’t say they were clones. I said they were similar and you didn’t respond to that. Rather you created a straw man and didn’t even respond to that. Now it’s a position thing and you expect to move Trouba instead of one of Lundkvist or Schneider. Jones would be better to keep simply because the style is helpful and there isn’t as much depth on the left side.

by saying they are not clones I DID respond to your assessment they are similar.
I DID point out differences.
YOU are the one ignoring those difs.

As to
"... Jones would be better to keep simply because the style is helpful and there isn’t as much depth on the left side."
is inaccurate, and arguably is volunteered b'c you want the larger Dman, of which there is no surplus.

There is a place for smaller guys -- Fox, Jones, etc.
along with a need for larger guys

Again, we already have Fox and for obv reasons he is not getting dealt


As for
"Now it’s a position thing and you expect to move Trouba instead of one of Lundkvist or Schneider. "
Moving Trouba is difficult, very difficult, but in a yr esp it is not impossible.
I am shocked we got out from under the Marc Staal contract, and that he agreed to go.

The main thing there is if his wife has sufficiently moved on from her studies to an area of actual practice, and if that is the case, can she be accommodated. Even if somebody has to do somebody a favor and make a donation and create a position --- exactly to her liking --- for her.

Once that nmc runs out NY does not have to be nice and bend over backwards on where it will send him to create cap. So working with us now -- maybe not this yr but next season --- is to his benefit as well.

And the other option is to require Trouba to play bottom 6 RW.

So there are ways to skin that cat.

to reiterate:
"... move Trouba instead of one of Lundkvist or Schneider. "
One cannot be open to any alternative idea.
There is no such option.
NL or BS will be replaced with either a cheap vet add, which is an unwanted step backward, or with a quality vet add who will cost $.

pls let this make an impression upon you.

 

[bernmeister]

Redundant doesn't get you a Hertl

fine,
If we don't get Hertl in a construct that works, it is better to pass and see if he tests ufa waters after this season.
If yes, we can consider an offer.
If not, fine.

Getting Hertl is not be all and end all.

 

[bernmeister]

No sale

your no vote is acknowledged and appreciated.
that is the full range NY can consider putting on the table.
imo

 

[Pinkfloyd]

by saying they are not clones I DID respond to your assessment they are similar.
I DID point out differences.
YOU are the one ignoring those difs.

As to
"... Jones would be better to keep simply because the style is helpful and there isn’t as much depth on the left side."
is inaccurate, and arguably is volunteered b'c you want the larger Dman, of which there is no surplus.

There is a place for smaller guys -- Fox, Jones, etc.
along with a need for larger guys

Again, we already have Fox and for obv reasons he is not getting dealt


As for
"Now it’s a position thing and you expect to move Trouba instead of one of Lundkvist or Schneider. "
Moving Trouba is difficult, very difficult, but in a yr esp it is not impossible.
I am shocked we got out from under the Marc Staal contract, and that he agreed to go.

The main thing there is if his wife has sufficiently moved on from her studies to an area of actual practice, and if that is the case, can she be accommodated. Even if somebody has to do somebody a favor and make a donation and create a position --- exactly to her liking --- for her.

Once that nmc runs out NY does not have to be nice and bend over backwards on where it will send him to create cap. So working with us now -- maybe not this yr but next season --- is to his benefit as well.

And the other option is to require Trouba to play bottom 6 RW.

So there are ways to skin that cat.

to reiterate:
"... move Trouba instead of one of Lundkvist or Schneider. "
One cannot be open to any alternative idea.
There is no such option.
NL or BS will be replaced with either a cheap vet add, which is an unwanted step backward, or with a quality vet add who will cost $.

pls let this make an impression upon you.

You didn't actually point out any differences in play styles. Now you're just talking about size which I think is a shortsighted view on comparing players and their contributions to the team. Trouba's nmc doesn't run out for three seasons and I think you're deluding yourself if you think he's going to switch to forward. I don't get how you think it'll be any different in a year when he still has the nmc. I quite honestly don't understand any of your 'logic' and I don't think it's based in reality.

Trouba isn't going anywhere for at least three seasons. So any kid on the right side is going to either wait three seasons or be used to help the team get better elsewhere. I think you can keep one of Schneider or Lundkvist but not both especially if you're fishing for someone like Eichel or Hertl or any other 1C trade option.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Stop ignoring this like it isn't reality for Rangers just b'c you want one of our bluest blue chip assets who is not available.

Jones is so in the mold of Fox, he is the only one who is truly redundant and hence available.

"yet this Bernmeister guy has gone on for multiple pages how Jones essentially isnt as good as his other prospects and therefore he'll only trade Jones"
others fit other needs
Jones is redundant given Fox
it is not a matter of better or not, that is a moot point.
.

Maybe I'd be able to reply to you sooner if I didn't have to reread all of your posts 3 times to understand your grammar. But first of all, obviously we want a blue chip asset back...we're trading our best player. Also, neither Nils nor Schneider are classified as "bluest blue chip assets"...they're good prospects and I'll give them that.

Secondly, other Rangers fans have admitted with Fox and Trouba already on your right side, there is opportunity to flip one of Nils or Schneider to improve an area of need. You're the only one in fairytale land where Trouba (who wanted out of his previous team to join a big market) will waive his NMC to leave the biggest city in the NHL which happens to be a good team.

You call Jones redundant because he plays similar to the reigning Norris trophy winner, yet won't admit it's just as redundant to have a plethora of RHD with ideally only 3 spots open. My main point is Zac Jones is not a prospect to be a main piece in a trade for Tomas Hertl.

 

[KevinFinnerty]

Thinking you’re going to get more than a 1st unprotected, a top 6 C in his prime, a good defensive prospect for a UFA Hertl is bonkers to me. I’d offer Lundkqvist+ 1st or Strome + 1st MAX.

But, we have a a very good center in Chytil who I believe can produce just as well as Hertl. So this is not necessary.

we have:

Zibby
Strome
Chytil
Barron
Goodrow
Rooney

as centers

Hertl is not a need. He’s a luxury.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Thinking you’re going to get more than a 1st unprotected, a top 6 C in his prime, a good defensive prospect for a UFA Hertl is bonkers to me. I’d offer Lundkqvist+ 1st or Strome + 1st MAX.

But, we have a a very good center in Chytil who I believe can produce just as well as Hertl. So this is not necessary.

we have:

Zibby
Strome
Chytil
Barron
Goodrow
Rooney

as centers

Hertl is not a need. He’s a luxury.

Strome would be flipped if it came to that. Lundkvist and a 1st is probably doable. I don't think Chytil will be as good as Hertl but it would be understandable if you think him MZ would be fine and not want to pay for Hertl.

 

[bernmeister]

You didn't actually point out any differences in play styles. Now you're just talking about size which I think is a shortsighted view on comparing players and their contributions to the team. Trouba's nmc doesn't run out for three seasons and I think you're deluding yourself if you think he's going to switch to forward. I don't get how you think it'll be any different in a year when he still has the nmc. I quite honestly don't understand any of your 'logic' and I don't think it's based in reality.

Trouba isn't going anywhere for at least three seasons. So any kid on the right side is going to either wait three seasons or be used to help the team get better elsewhere. I think you can keep one of Schneider or Lundkvist but not both especially if you're fishing for someone like Eichel or Hertl or any other 1C trade option.

"You didn't actually point out any differences in play styles."
I did.
I say each is ok somewhat across the board, but with areas of specialization.
I said Nils L = PP shot.
You continue to cherry pick and ignore what I'm saying.
pls stop it; it is a waste of time for you to continue to go there and for me to have to correct you.

"Trouba's nmc doesn't run out for three seasons and I think you're deluding yourself if you think he's going to switch to forward."
I don't think it will be necessary to go to backup last option of playing at F just so Schneider, an elc, cracks the lineup.
Yes, his nmc is like 3 yrs which is prior to end of his deal.
He can dictate accepting a deal or not.
As I described, if he plays hardball, he gets nothing from us post career.
If he scratches our back, we will scratch his.
The dominant consideration here is what makes his wife happy.
The wife was previously a student; focus was on education.
Has she graduated? If yes, and is early on in career as resident/doctor then obviously many more options about where she works.


"I think you can keep one of Schneider or Lundkvist but not both especially if you're fishing for someone like Eichel or Hertl or any other 1C trade option."
we won't fish, thank you.
We will control our cap by keeping young elcs.

We are rejecting Eichel unless/until all medical risk and other issues fully check out before there is even a conversation.

As to Hertl, some variant on what I've said,
or
we wait and see if he wants to come here as a ufa.

Some variant of rental price can work.
This idea of we overpay, or overpay on Eich level terms, not gonna happen.

 

[bernmeister]

Thinking you’re going to get more than a 1st unprotected, a top 6 C in his prime, a good defensive prospect for a UFA Hertl is bonkers to me. I’d offer Lundkqvist+ 1st or Strome + 1st MAX.

But, we have a a very good center in Chytil who I believe can produce just as well as Hertl. So this is not necessary.

we have:

Zibby
Strome
Chytil
Barron
Goodrow
Rooney

as centers

Hertl is not a need. He’s a luxury.

agree w/the bold
would not offer as much as you did

if he goes elsewhere, he goes
and we see what he does post season as ufa

 

[Adam da bomb]

"You didn't actually point out any differences in play styles."
I did.
I say each is ok somewhat across the board, but with areas of specialization.
I said Nils L = PP shot.
You continue to cherry pick and ignore what I'm saying.
pls stop it; it is a waste of time for you to continue to go there and for me to have to correct you.

"Trouba's nmc doesn't run out for three seasons and I think you're deluding yourself if you think he's going to switch to forward."
I don't think it will be necessary to go to backup last option of playing at F just so Schneider, an elc, cracks the lineup.
Yes, his nmc is like 3 yrs which is prior to end of his deal.
He can dictate accepting a deal or not.
As I described, if he plays hardball, he gets nothing from us post career.
If he scratches our back, we will scratch his.
The dominant consideration here is what makes his wife happy.
The wife was previously a student; focus was on education.
Has she graduated? If yes, and is early on in career as resident/doctor then obviously many more options about where she works.


"I think you can keep one of Schneider or Lundkvist but not both especially if you're fishing for someone like Eichel or Hertl or any other 1C trade option."
we won't fish, thank you.
We will control our cap by keeping young elcs.

We are rejecting Eichel unless/until all medical risk and other issues fully check out before there is even a conversation.

As to Hertl, some variant on what I've said,
or
we wait and see if he wants to come here as a ufa.

Some variant of rental price can work.
This idea of we overpay, or overpay on Eich level terms, not gonna happen.

I think it's way too early for Trouba to be thinking post career and to know that he wants to be with a hockey Organization once it ends. He might want to open a Cafe Hard Rock for all we know. Therefore, he might laugh at the idea of getting nothing post career from the Rangers. He might want to give back and be part of the American National Hockey program for all we know.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

"You didn't actually point out any differences in play styles."
I did.
I say each is ok somewhat across the board, but with areas of specialization.
I said Nils L = PP shot.
You continue to cherry pick and ignore what I'm saying.
pls stop it; it is a waste of time for you to continue to go there and for me to have to correct you.

"Trouba's nmc doesn't run out for three seasons and I think you're deluding yourself if you think he's going to switch to forward."
I don't think it will be necessary to go to backup last option of playing at F just so Schneider, an elc, cracks the lineup.
Yes, his nmc is like 3 yrs which is prior to end of his deal.
He can dictate accepting a deal or not.
As I described, if he plays hardball, he gets nothing from us post career.
If he scratches our back, we will scratch his.
The dominant consideration here is what makes his wife happy.
The wife was previously a student; focus was on education.
Has she graduated? If yes, and is early on in career as resident/doctor then obviously many more options about where she works.


"I think you can keep one of Schneider or Lundkvist but not both especially if you're fishing for someone like Eichel or Hertl or any other 1C trade option."
we won't fish, thank you.
We will control our cap by keeping young elcs.

We are rejecting Eichel unless/until all medical risk and other issues fully check out before there is even a conversation.

As to Hertl, some variant on what I've said,
or
we wait and see if he wants to come here as a ufa.

Some variant of rental price can work.
This idea of we overpay, or overpay on Eich level terms, not gonna happen.

Saying someone is a pp shot is hardly making any real distinction. Come on. You're not correcting anything. You're just off in your fairy tale land acting like anything you say has merit when it doesn't.

 

[bernmeister]

Maybe I'd be able to reply to you sooner if I didn't have to reread all of your posts 3 times to understand your grammar. But first of all, obviously we want a blue chip asset back...we're trading our best player. Also, neither Nils nor Schneider are classified as "bluest blue chip assets"...they're good prospects and I'll give them that.

Secondly, other Rangers fans have admitted with Fox and Trouba already on your right side, there is opportunity to flip one of Nils or Schneider to improve an area of need. You're the only one in fairytale land where Trouba (who wanted out of his previous team to join a big market) will waive his NMC to leave the biggest city in the NHL which happens to be a good team.

You call Jones redundant because he plays similar to the reigning Norris trophy winner, yet won't admit it's just as redundant to have a plethora of RHD with ideally only 3 spots open. My main point is Zac Jones is not a prospect to be a main piece in a trade for Tomas Hertl.

we disagree across the board, so thanks and that's it.

"Maybe I'd be able to reply to you sooner if I didn't have to reread all of your posts 3 times to understand your grammar. "
I am a professional wordsmith.
My track record on that stands.
Physician heal thyself.

"But first of all, obviously we want a blue chip asset back...we're trading our best player. "
You are trading him b'c you have to b'c he is a pending ufa and the underlying assumption is he won't extend.
You are not in control as to setting the price.
Ultimately, you will not want to do another Isles/Tavares fiasco and let him walk for nothing.
You are in control over how long you hold him [up to last TDL date].
The market here will be set by the buyers, what they are willing to pay, not by the seller, what he will insist is to be paid.

"Also, neither Nils nor Schneider are classified as "bluest blue chip assets"...they're good prospects and I'll give them that."
Disagree.
Also, it conspicuous that despite your assertion they are [just only] "good prospects", these ARE the guys EVERYBODY is demanding in deals.

"Secondly, other Rangers fans have admitted with Fox and Trouba already on your right side, there is opportunity to flip one of Nils or Schneider to improve an area of need. "
I do not speak for others, and they do not speak for me.

If we do a headcount, I believe the majority are with me on this.
And even if that is not so, I am objectively, not subjectively correct on this.
You claim "there is opportunity to flip one of Nils or Schneider to improve an area of need". That opportunity is NOT in a vacuum; it comes at a cost.

Admit to the fact that if they deal NL or BS for help now which costs $$, at some pt replacing NL or BS will likely = using vets.
Logic suggests probability is if vet is not good they are cheap. That does not cost $ but costs performance.
If they are good and cost $$ now you have added cap which is a real problem.
Stop ignoring it, and stop belittling me for proactively getting ahead of it.


"You're the only one in fairytale land where Trouba (who wanted out of his previous team to join a big market) will waive his NMC to leave the biggest city in the NHL which happens to be a good team."
As explained, getting Staal traded is a shocker.
Trouba has incentive now, which he did not before.
And we are not putting the screws on him immediately.
This is a let's everybody plan about how we deal with cap and JT's short term future.
And finally, if we tell him to go to F, b'c there are cap issues forcing how we shape the roster, then he will do 2 years as reserve D and get most of his mins at RW. His nmc does not dictate how he is used.


"You call Jones redundant because he plays similar to the reigning Norris trophy winner, yet won't admit it's just as redundant to have a plethora of RHD with ideally only 3 spots open."
Do not have a plethora.
There are 4 guys for 3 slots if we go by handedness -- Fox, Trouba, Nils L and Schneider. As explained Trouba has to go eventually due to cap. The time to address that reality is now, and to not exacerbate the problem by dealing a bluest blue chip elc. Also, if Zib is not dealt, in pretty much any scenario, he is gonna command way more than the 5+ he currently gets. In the short term, we can juggle by dealing Strome and Geo. But long term, Trouba and maybe also Kreider will have to go.
It is math, the numbers do not lie, period.


"My main point is Zac Jones is not a prospect to be a main piece in a trade for Tomas Hertl."
You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else.
I respectfully disagree.
Jones is not chopped liver.
If he were redrafted, he would be a 1st round selection.

 

[bernmeister]

I think it's way too early for Trouba to be thinking post career and to know that he wants to be with a hockey Organization once it ends. He might want to open a Cafe Hard Rock for all we know. Therefore, he might laugh at the idea of getting nothing post career from the Rangers. He might want to give back and be part of the American National Hockey program for all we know.

Sure, there are a lot of possibilities.
But the point is whatever he will choose, we -- a friend with very, very deep pockets with a good track record -- would owe him a favor.
That's very useful.

And if the timetable for his wife has advanced so it is not a great inconvenience, for him to not delay the inevitable for another 2 yrs and make that decision after this season is not so crazy far fetched.

 

[bernmeister]

Saying someone is a pp shot is hardly making any real distinction. Come on. You're not correcting anything. You're just off in your fairy tale land acting like anything you say has merit when it doesn't.

Why?
The bold is not a substantiated claim by you.

NY could use a cannon at RD and by all accounts Nils is that.


"You're just off in your fairy tale land acting like anything you say has merit when it doesn't."
ad hominem without substantiation

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Why?
The bold is not a substantiated claim by you.

NY could use a cannon at RD and by all accounts Nils is that.


"You're just off in your fairy tale land acting like anything you say has merit when it doesn't."
ad hominem without substantiation

I don't need substantiation when it's an opinion on distinction. Everyone shoots including guys like Fox and Trouba on the same side. Also, what needs substantiation when it comes to your track record and recognizing value in any context as it relates to hockey? Your record on this stuff is really bad even for fans.

 

[ElLeetch]

I just don't see the love for Hertl, a guy who cracked 70 points once.

Why would the rangers trade for a soon-to-be 28 year old 50-70 point Czech center, when the cost to get him is a 22 year old Czech center who is basically on the same progression path, PLUS two or three other high-end assets?

 

[LyNX27]

Maybe I'd be able to reply to you sooner if I didn't have to reread all of your posts 3 times to understand your grammar. But first of all, obviously we want a blue chip asset back...we're trading our best player. Also, neither Nils nor Schneider are classified as "bluest blue chip assets"...they're good prospects and I'll give them that.

Secondly, other Rangers fans have admitted with Fox and Trouba already on your right side, there is opportunity to flip one of Nils or Schneider to improve an area of need. You're the only one in fairytale land where Trouba (who wanted out of his previous team to join a big market) will waive his NMC to leave the biggest city in the NHL which happens to be a good team.

You call Jones redundant because he plays similar to the reigning Norris trophy winner, yet won't admit it's just as redundant to have a plethora of RHD with ideally only 3 spots open. My main point is Zac Jones is not a prospect to be a main piece in a trade for Tomas Hertl.

You're talking about value for a UFA pending player, who's due a big pay day, with some interesting injuries. Even if Sharks let other teams talk to him before signing the value is still going to be reduced.

Sharks aren't in "win now" mode so getting a 1st, a prospect, and someone who can slot in now is probably the best return they'll get. Price-controlled defensemen make sense for a team carrying both Karlsson and Burns.

Nils just won the Salming trophy in the SHL and has been on fire for multiple seasons, Schneider won the Bill Hunter Memorial Trophy for WHL Defenseman of the Year, and Zac Jones has been highly touted by scouts for being a slick and smart (yet undersized defenseman) and just won a National Championship with UMass-Am.

Nothing to talk about here if you don't see those as blue-chip prospects.

 

[Machinehead]

it is not worth the loss of youth

Chytil is unavailable, needed to replace Strome, who must go if for no other reason b'c of $ -- also Chytil ceiling projects as better all around player.

Jones is the only D who can be made available.

Bern, I love you, but in this scenario Hertl is replacing Strome.

 

[bernmeister]

Saying someone is a pp shot is hardly making any real distinction. Come on. You're not correcting anything. You're just off in your fairy tale land acting like anything you say has merit when it doesn't.

Another bad faith effort by you to control the narrative.
If a terrific shot is a premium feature because in 2021 not everybody, and esp not most D has one, then it IS an item of distinction.

 

[bernmeister]

You're talking about value for a UFA pending player, who's due a big pay day, with some interesting injuries. Even if Sharks let other teams talk to him before signing the value is still going to be reduced.

Sharks aren't in "win now" mode so getting a 1st, a prospect, and someone who can slot in now is probably the best return they'll get. Price-controlled defensemen make sense for a team carrying both Karlsson and Burns.

Nils just won the Salming trophy in the SHL and has been on fire for multiple seasons, Schneider won the Bill Hunter Memorial Trophy for WHL Defenseman of the Year, and Zac Jones has been highly touted by scouts for being a slick and smart (yet undersized defenseman) and just won a National Championship with UMass-Am.

Nothing to talk about here if you don't see those as blue-chip prospects.

thank you for a solid contribution here
the link ID'ing Jones as 4th ranked NYR prospect is informative and adds credence to what several have said here.

 

[bernmeister]

Bern, I love you, but in this scenario Hertl is replacing Strome.

I love you too, man.
After all, four of the great archangels of our time
John, Paul, George and Ringo
did coin the phrase "Love is all you need."
and those words are true more often than not.

But as to the item, Chytil is the internal replacement for Strome, with Hertl a strategic add atm. Chytil is an integral part of the team for other reasons also but including b'c his salary and what it takes to extend him short term.

Hertl at 8 is our replacement for zib when he will want 10+.

At that pt we pay zib 10.5 + w/no nmc and limited ntc and then retain to flip him for assets

So actually Hertl is mid term insurance vs a zib exit = a vacuum

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Another bad faith effort by you to control the narrative.
If a terrific shot is a premium feature because in 2021 not everybody, and esp not most D has one, then it IS an item of distinction.

I'm not trying to control anything. It's just pointing out your laziness on this issue. When one thing counter to your thought process is pointed out, you don't actually respond to the point. You just move to something else that nominally supports your original assertion. If anything, you're trying to control your own narrative but it's based on faulty reasoning that is often shortsighted and misinformed. Fox is going to be your guy on the PP. If Zibanejad is extended, he's your other point guy. With Trouba going nowhere anytime soon, it's hard to see how the Rangers are going to find time for both Lundkvist and Schneider. A prospect with a shot isn't a meaningful enough distinction in this context to be taken seriously when you have two guys on the point with good shots already. Now maybe Zibanejad walks and there's a spot there but it would likely be years down the road still and one of Lundkvist or Schneider is still on the outside looking in. The Rangers would be better off improving elsewhere and trading from a position of strength and depth. Improving from Strome to Hertl would be a worthy reason to do so regardless of whether you feel they're untouchable to you.