Proposal: NYR-SJS

[Pinkfloyd]

1. I'm not too thrilled with your very uncivil tone in the bold.
Take care.
I give as good as I get and then some.

2. As to the underline, your assumption is wrong.
They may well elect to give Fox an entire game off vs a weaker opponent as I already suggested.

The key will be if and how fast Nils L rises to the occasion.
He's played very well as a boy among men in Sweden.
Yes, there will be a short term learning/adjustment curve,
but
there is no reason to not believe he will handle it properly within suitable time frame.
NY had more realistic cause for concern w/K'Andre Miller making club right out of camp.

--------------

You are trying to control the narrative and I will not let you.
You are arguing that not all mins are the same.
Let's say we agree on that in a vacuum.
You then want to say that further, that variance somehow applies to Fox here.

No it does not.
The overriding point of that is regardless of what other impact it has on the team, if Fox plays couple of mins less every day on average, and is more rested, he will be fresher the deeper NY hopefully goes into the playoffs.
That last sentence is math based logic and as such is irrefutable.

You have no response to my pointing out that many teams in all sports rest key players last games of the season for this very reason.

Your attempt to misdirect and seize the narrative is called out.

-----------------

The bottom line here is you want other assets we will not surrender.
Giving them up ultimately is counterproductive given cap reality.
Rule: It is smarter to keep young depth than add expensive vets.
Exceptions work within NY long term best interest plan, do not blow it up.

Either take a 1st
or
take Jones +

or let it go.

So your response is to make more unsupported assertions and outlandish scenarios that will never actually happen. This isn't about controlling narratives, bern. It's about you not understanding that reality doesn't work like you think it does. You have absolutely no prior instances to support any of this. You say it happens in all sports yet provide absolutely no examples of that happening as it relates to a Norris winning defenseman. You can't just hand wave away the reality that certain minutes in hockey are more taxing than others. And you can sit someone in October to lower the average TOI but it doesn't mean that they'll actually be fresher come April. Your math based nonsense is incorrect because it completely removes the human element that cannot completely be quantified.

But then again, this is pretty par for the course for you. Instead of responding to points directly, you go on tangents that probably sound good to you but are fundamentally missing the point...because you like to control the narrative. Luckily, I don't really care about such things. I care about the point and the arguments. Of which, yours is lacking in coherence and evidence.

 

[TGWL]

I don't have a problem with him saying Fox with less minutes might help him later in the season, but when the point of "basic math" is based on powerplay minutes, you really have no point, and it's still not basic math...

 

[themelkman]

Man this thread is wacky

Every NYR thread is wacky these days

 

[bernmeister]

So your response is to make more unsupported assertions and outlandish scenarios that will never actually happen. This isn't about controlling narratives, bern. It's about you not understanding that reality doesn't work like you think it does. You have absolutely no prior instances to support any of this. You say it happens in all sports yet provide absolutely no examples of that happening as it relates to a Norris winning defenseman. You can't just hand wave away the reality that certain minutes in hockey are more taxing than others. And you can sit someone in October to lower the average TOI but it doesn't mean that they'll actually be fresher come April. Your math based nonsense is incorrect because it completely removes the human element that cannot completely be quantified.

But then again, this is pretty par for the course for you. Instead of responding to points directly, you go on tangents that probably sound good to you but are fundamentally missing the point...because you like to control the narrative. Luckily, I don't really care about such things. I care about the point and the arguments. Of which, yours is lacking in coherence and evidence.

1st bold: sez you

1st underline: I am not gonna waste even more of my time and go back and look at when the example I provided, which clearly is applicable in all sports --- as to teams resting personnel esp key players before playoffs --- is highlighted specifically as to Norris D.
Like a team would rest everybody else except one of their most valuable cogs.
As if....


2nd bold: Yes, I can b'c it does not supercede the point that total mins is what is key here. Any AND ALL mins Fox rests will = less CUMULATIVE wear and tear come April.
THAT is THE BOTTOM line, not your attempt to exit that premise.

2nd underline: Yes, resting in October is also helpful.
Your assertion it is not is arbitrary.

2nd paragraph: also, sez you.

 

[bernmeister]

I don't have a problem with him saying Fox with less minutes might help him later in the season, but when the point of "basic math" is based on powerplay minutes, you really have no point, and it's still not basic math...

I appreciate the honest admission in bold.

As to the confusion over 'basic math' I made the assertion yes, but it is as to what you can deduce --- that any minutes off will help potentially reduce risk of late season exhaustion into the playoffs.

It is the other side that is saying all minutes are not equal, and beyond that, such inequality somehow defeats the fundamental premise of less overworking of a critical asset by a few fewer minutes per game here and there.
It does not.
Math may not always be crystal clear -- especially at first.
Statistics, damn statistics.

But when a proof is run, ultimately math = math.
The other side is saying not math = math
but
math = their interpretation of math.

Is it not enough that we have a third of the country wh9 qualify to be members of the flat earth society, rejecting science [vaccines] etc.?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

1st bold: sez you

1st underline: I am not gonna waste even more of my time and go back and look at when the example I provided, which clearly is applicable in all sports --- as to teams resting personnel esp key players before playoffs --- is highlighted specifically as to Norris D.
Like a team would rest everybody else except one of their most valuable cogs.
As if....


2nd bold: Yes, I can b'c it does not supercede the point that total mins is what is key here. Any AND ALL mins Fox rests will = less CUMULATIVE wear and tear come April.
THAT is THE BOTTOM line, not your attempt to exit that premise.

2nd underline: Yes, resting in October is also helpful.
Your assertion it is not is arbitrary.

2nd paragraph: also, sez you.

So instead of either admitting fault with your logic, you've decided to just go schoolyard arguing. In actuality, cumulative wear and tear isn't some 1 to 1 relationship with minutes played. If it was so clear to you, you'd be able to provide such an example but you aren't doing that. It's not difficult to see why. And no, any and all minutes rested doesn't override that certain situations are more taxing than others. Saving Fox some PP minutes isn't going to make him fresher come playoff time no matter how hard you try to will that nonsense into existence.

 

[bernmeister]

So instead of either admitting fault with your logic, you've decided to just go schoolyard arguing. In actuality, cumulative wear and tear isn't some 1 to 1 relationship with minutes played. If it was so clear to you, you'd be able to provide such an example but you aren't doing that. It's not difficult to see why. And no, any and all minutes rested doesn't override that certain situations are more taxing than others. Saving Fox some PP minutes isn't going to make him fresher come playoff time no matter how hard you try to will that nonsense into existence.

1. I am not the one who needs to admit to fault here.

2. The bold is erroneous, not withstanding that the 1:1 reference is not applicable.

It is indisputable that a player who is not overused is fresher.
While different players have different thresholds as to what is overuse for any single specific player, it is clear as a sunny day that less total minutes = less wear and tear for every player, even if that is in different degrees to different players.

3. You are the one pigeonholing Fox as to PP mins.
PP or not it is moot.
Mins are mins.

-----------------

You can continue this path but you will not prevail.
No one berates bernmeister into submission.

If you have something that is actually correct on the merits because it is objectively true, and not predominantly on subjective assertions, feel free to advance it.
Otherwise ....

 

[Pinkfloyd]

1. I am not the one who needs to admit to fault here.

2. The bold is erroneous, not withstanding that the 1:1 reference is not applicable.

It is indisputable that a player who is not overused is fresher.
While different players have different thresholds as to what is overuse for any single specific player, it is clear as a sunny day that less total minutes = less wear and tear for every player, even if that is in different degrees to different players.

3. You are the one pigeonholing Fox as to PP mins.
PP or not it is moot.
Mins are mins.

-----------------

You can continue this path but you will not prevail.
No one berates bernmeister into submission.

If you have something that is actually correct on the merits because it is objectively true, and not predominantly on subjective assertions, feel free to advance it.
Otherwise ....

Yeah, sure bern. When you boil it down to math and it being irrefutable, you're implying it's 1:1. You can't even make the case that he's being overused. You can't really quantify the wear and tear. You specifically, can't even quantify it accurately when you attempt to put out the notion that any minutes would accomplish that task when that's not really true. You've yet to substantiate any claim of yours in this thread and it would behoove you to do so if you'd like to salvage any shred of credibility you think you have.

 

[bernmeister]

Yeah, sure bern. When you boil it down to math and it being irrefutable, you're implying it's 1:1. You can't even make the case that he's being overused. You can't really quantify the wear and tear. You specifically, can't even quantify it accurately when you attempt to put out the notion that any minutes would accomplish that task when that's not really true. You've yet to substantiate any claim of yours in this thread and it would behoove you to do so if you'd like to salvage any shred of credibility you think you have.

"You can't even make the case that he's being overused. "
In your continued hate, in your incessant desire to knock my off my own petard, you continue to misrepresent.

No one said Fox WAS BEING overused.
The point was that keeping RD Nils L who is a better overall fit including b'c he can serve as a PP specialist, that there is reasonable basis to project reduced mins for Fox.
You refuse to admit it, but regardless of anyone's failure to admit, math tells us that less minutes played by any player = less wear and tear = fresher player for the playoffs.


"You can't really quantify the wear and tear."
I don't have to capitulate to your demand to quantify it.
It is obvious that less mins played = less wear and tear ACROSS THE BOARD.

The fact there are actually different levels of wear and tear to different players of different ages in differing physical conditions is irrelevant.
Any reduction in use saves the (player) asset from overuse, because regardless of where the level of overuse is for a specific player, any reduction in (over) use is beneficial.

"You specifically, can't even quantify it accurately when you attempt to put out the notion that any minutes would accomplish that task when that's not really true."

The world is not flat.
The truth will set you free.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

"You can't even make the case that he's being overused. "
In your continued hate, in your incessant desire to knock my off my own petard, you continue to misrepresent.

No one said Fox WAS BEING overused.
The point was that keeping RD Nils L who is a better overall fit including b'c he can serve as a PP specialist, that there is reasonable basis to project reduced mins for Fox.
You refuse to admit it, but regardless of anyone's failure to admit, math tells us that less minutes played by any player = less wear and tear = fresher player for the playoffs.


"You can't really quantify the wear and tear."
I don't have to capitulate to your demand to quantify it.
It is obvious that less mins played = less wear and tear ACROSS THE BOARD.

The fact there are actually different levels of wear and tear to different players of different ages in differing physical conditions is irrelevant.
Any reduction in use saves the (player) asset from overuse, because regardless of where the level of overuse is for a specific player, any reduction in (over) use is beneficial.

"You specifically, can't even quantify it accurately when you attempt to put out the notion that any minutes would accomplish that task when that's not really true."

The world is not flat.
The truth will set you free.

So now you're just being blatantly dishonest with your arguments. And you can reassert all you like but it's not proving your case. I'm over you talking out of both sides of your mouth. You've consistently decided against direct responses and supporting your assertions with evidence. The last little quip is an example of you trying to control the narrative. You're hilarious though lol

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

So what would Hertl cost again? I’m just happy that Bern and Pinkfloyd have found each other for kindred spirits

 

[bernmeister]

So now you're just being blatantly dishonest with your arguments. And you can reassert all you like but it's not proving your case. I'm over you talking out of both sides of your mouth. You've consistently decided against direct responses and supporting your assertions with evidence. The last little quip is an example of you trying to control the narrative. You're hilarious though lol

Sez you, and without substantiation.

 

[bernmeister]

So what would Hertl cost again? I’m just happy that Bern and Pinkfloyd have found each other for kindred spirits

funny.

to answer your ?:
one price extended which NYR will not pay
one price as a rental

rental price could be a guaranteed 1st + 2 conditional picks each morphing into a 1st [based on Hertl's availability and his extending on terms ok for NY --- 4yrs 8.5 max]
OR
the 2 conditionals are exchanged for 1 additional guaranteed 1st

The other deal is something around Jones + Strome + a pick

PERIOD
Asks for Nils L, Schneider, Kravtsov, other bluest blue chips is DOA

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Sez you, and without substantiation.

All your posts are all the substantiation anybody needs to see that, buddy. lol

 

[seroes]

funny.

to answer your ?:
one price extended which NYR will not pay
one price as a rental

rental price could be a guaranteed 1st + 2 conditional picks each morphing into a 1st [based on Hertl's availability and his extending on terms ok for NY --- 4yrs 8.5 max]
OR
the 2 conditionals are exchanged for 1 additional guaranteed 1st

The other deal is something around Jones + Strome + a pick

PERIOD
Asks for Nils L, Schneider, Kravtsov, other bluest blue chips is DOA

If you aren't willing to give up blue chips then this is dead on arrival. In addition, you can no longer trade conditional picks based on a player resigning.

 

[TGWL]

funny.

to answer your ?:
one price extended which NYR will not pay
one price as a rental

rental price could be a guaranteed 1st + 2 conditional picks each morphing into a 1st [based on Hertl's availability and his extending on terms ok for NY --- 4yrs 8.5 max]
OR
the 2 conditionals are exchanged for 1 additional guaranteed 1st

The other deal is something around Jones + Strome + a pick

PERIOD
Asks for Nils L, Schneider, Kravtsov, other bluest blue chips is DOA

You can't do conditional picks based on players signing anymore.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

You can't do conditional picks based on players signing anymore.

Guess he'll have to revert to the "cushy organization job if you take this shitty contract" and "Dolan can buy your house if you waive your NMC" takes.