Proposal: NYR-SJS
- Thread starter bfaust30
- Start date
- Jul 28, 2011
- 15,666
- 10,397
You can't just avoid the question by calling it basic match. If I skate for 25 minutes with 23 minutes being a hard skate and the other 2 minutes being a downhill cruise, I'm not going to feel fresher in a few months just because I eliminated the 2 minute cruise from my skates. Don't call it an observation and say it can't be refuted. Basic math is 2 + 2 because there's always the same answer. Basic match isn't "what if".
You've lost the plot when you pretend that 2-3 minutes of power play time is saving wear and tear. That's not how that works because those minutes are incredibly easy on players. But putting that aside, please point out situations which you believe support your assertion. It simply doesn't happen especially to Norris winning defensemen. I don't buy that teams choose to rest their top guy on defense by reducing their power play minutes. Guys that get reduced minutes on the power play get those minutes reduced because they're losing effectiveness. For someone like Fox, that simply isn't going to happen. Now if you were advocating for them to reduce his PK time from the 2:36 per game he has been to pretty much zero then there's a legitimate argument to make when it comes to being fresher down the line but you don't actually have a d-man ready to carry that load for Fox and Lundkvist isn't going to be that guy.
You really need to stop the projection, bern. The only one with continued denials saying false is true and true is false is you. You've yet to substantially support any assertion you've made in this regard. You just think pointing to math proves your case and it simply doesn't. That's shallow reasoning and you should know that.
"It has to be a mixture of both."
it does not HAVE TO be tho a mixture may make sense
"Fox is your best defenseman, so having him on the ice is obviously going to have more of a positive impact on the Rangers chances of winning than someone else."
Obviously yes more Fox mins are stronger for NY than otherwise, in a vacuum.
But risking overworking Fox to exhaustion or increased risk of injury is not smart.
The idea is to develop everyone to their best level of play, and enjoy depth.
Depth > less/no depth.
" In order to have the best chance at winning hockey games, you need your best players playing the most ice time possible."
No.
balance = depth which is desirable, not all best players 111% of the time.
"It's not like the Rangers are a superteam that can rest players and still clinch a playoff spot."
Don't have to be superhuman superteam, just smart to give emerging youth mins so they develop.
Granted, there will be some growing pains esp year 1.
But it is necessary regardless.
Also, this can be selectively pursued.
You can sit Fox entirely vs a very weak time, or give him minimum mins; and then vs top competition, maybe you can even push him an extra 2 or 3 mins for the odd couple of games here and there.
The faster the entire roster is kicking it on all cylinders is the shortest route to best ongoing results.
themelkman
Always Delivers
If theres one thing Bern doesnt do, its follow the commonly agreed on
sorry but this attempt to parse the facts will not change them.
It IS basic math.
Also, you said what about YOU skating 23 mins hard, 2 mins soft.
Fox has to adjust his intensity as is warranted.
No athlete can turn on full energy, full intensity every second of a game in any sport. It is counterproductive and takes too much out of you.
Fox is smart enough AND familiar enough to know exactly what to do and when to pick his spots.
We are optimistic once Nils is here a couple of months he will be familiar enough that his talent too can take over.
that will improve and be more fluid over time but he should be able to get the ball rolling.
Stewie Griffin
What the deuce
I wonder what it says when a thread about Tomas Hertl being traded to the Rangers turns into bernmeister teaching us how we should coach a team with the Norris winner.
You are attempting to control the narrative and to the extent that is putting words in my mouth, I execute my right to reject it.
I said couple of minutes a game.
YOU are now SPECIFYING it is [implying must be] on power play.
A couple of minutes is a couple of minutes.
yes and no
something is not inherently right or wrong b'c it is commonly agreed to.
bern goes on the merits
when possible that is on objective over subjective criteria.
Tell it like it is
let your conscience be your guide
not original, but always words to live by
Is bern compelling you to learn?
Or is he rejecting the 'teachings' you would force on him?
Stewie Griffin
What the deuce
He's giving me mental health problems with the way he talks in 3rd person and the fact he won't trade for Tomas Hertl because it would be more beneficial for the team to play Fox a few less minutes a game.
Shark Finn
∀dministrator
Don't give me that control the narrative projection. You have limited options on where you can take minutes away from Fox in your outlandish scenario. There is no reasonable way to assert that Lundkvist would take it away from him at evens or on the PK so what are you left with? You either honestly answer that question or don't but for the purposes of gathering information, it's irrelevant if you do answer it. You have yet to establish that there is any actual way for Lundkvist to take a couple minutes per game away from Fox. And you're never going to because even you know how ridiculous that idea actually is.
So man up and actually lay out how that gets done or shut the hell up.
FoxysExpensiveNYDigs
Boo Nieves Truther
If there is ever another expansion draft i propose the NHL waive the league entry fee with the caveat that the team must make Bern the GM for 3 years.
any such team could do worse
a lot worse
but I am unavailable, even to my beloved Rangers
until my theory
on how to solve a nice chunk of the world's economic problems
by restructuring the international monetary system
based on finally recognizing the correct standard to value money
is validated.
expect a big announcement within a year.
Will you try to change things,
with the power that you have
the power of a million new ideas.
Lyric from the song Dialogue by Robert Lamm, of the supergroup Chicago
Stewie Griffin
What the deuce
Bernmeister after Fox plays 90 less seconds a game so Nils Lundkvist becomes a Noriss contender as well.
"the way he talks in 3rd person"
setting aside any other ok to go there because of artistic license
the comment being responded to was made to me in 3rd person [as opposed to regular conversation of "you" and "I"].
"and the fact he won't trade for Tomas Hertl because it would be more beneficial for the team to play Fox a few less minutes a game."
I will trade for Hertl but only in construct where reward justifies risk
That means as a rental for less or possibly something in between but definitely not top top dollar for extended.
We do not want him 7-8 yrs term, only 4 yrs max.
So we pay accordingly. If that's not enough, we wait until he is ufa if that happens.
At that pt he may agree to be overpaid by a 1.5m ish for those years instead of a larger amount due to longer term, b'c he will then still have those additional 3-4 years after his deal w/NY.
I am willing to do either
one 1st
plus 2 picks that could morph into 1sts depending on Hertl availability and production.
I consider that reasonable.
I would consider in lieu of a 1st and two maybe 1sts, two definite 1sts.
I would consider something around Jones +
I will not consider our other bluest blue chip elc assets, period.
Everyone else trying to make me/Rangers bend buckle and break in capitulation on that point, the answer is no, you are the one who is rebuked.
Once and for all, we need to admit that on this bern is right:
Chytil and elcs/rfas are needed b'c
setting aside zib
and whether or not we add salary in Hertl or other acquisition
even moving Strome
1. we need a long term deal for Fox which is gonna be at least 8.5 x 8 presuming he does us a favor, and which cannot be rejected b'c long term deal = cheapest cap hit going forward
2. LaF + Kakko are in end year elcs with rfas next. Kravtsov follows after next season. That is gonna require more $, which we can theoretically tweak here and there. However, ....
3. ... if any bluest blue chip assets are dealt, then setting aside whoever they return is going to be another expensive add --- ikely a large single contract which will result in structural cap headaches --- whatever blue chips we deal have to be replaced. If they are replaced by inexpensive vets, these are likely to be fodder which is unproductive. If they are replaced by productive vets who are expensive, that = instant cap problems.
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So in conclusion, stop asking for Nils L and Schneider who fits specific needs and consider the playmaking skill of Jones, who is only available b'c he is redundant to Fox.
Or just do picks
Or no deal.
Groo
Registered User
1. I'm not too thrilled with your very uncivil tone in the bold.
Take care.
I give as good as I get and then some.
2. As to the underline, your assumption is wrong.
They may well elect to give Fox an entire game off vs a weaker opponent as I already suggested.
The key will be if and how fast Nils L rises to the occasion.
He's played very well as a boy among men in Sweden.
Yes, there will be a short term learning/adjustment curve,
but
there is no reason to not believe he will handle it properly within suitable time frame.
NY had more realistic cause for concern w/K'Andre Miller making club right out of camp.
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You are trying to control the narrative and I will not let you.
You are arguing that not all mins are the same.
Let's say we agree on that in a vacuum.
You then want to say that further, that variance somehow applies to Fox here.
No it does not.
The overriding point of that is regardless of what other impact it has on the team, if Fox plays couple of mins less every day on average, and is more rested, he will be fresher the deeper NY hopefully goes into the playoffs.
That last sentence is math based logic and as such is irrefutable.
You have no response to my pointing out that many teams in all sports rest key players last games of the season for this very reason.
Your attempt to misdirect and seize the narrative is called out.
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The bottom line here is you want other assets we will not surrender.
Giving them up ultimately is counterproductive given cap reality.
Rule: It is smarter to keep young depth than add expensive vets.
Exceptions work within NY long term best interest plan, do not blow it up.
Either take a 1st
or
take Jones +
or let it go.
thank you and fine
at end of the season we will see how this all plays out
good chance Hertl considers ufa
we keep our bluest clue chip and see what happens.
good luck to you if you rent him
Groo
Registered User
Not a problem. Perhaps the NYR's will be a consideration for Hertl if he hits FA's
It wouldn't be 30 seconds less, it would be enuf to give Fox decent rest before playoffs.
But if Nils L could also turn into a Norris contender sooner than later, that would be great!
And as for that jibe --- oh, let's not make this about me if we don't have to.
perhaps
and it is a fair and open ? to challenge my assertion about going only 4 years max at a bit more per.
But the point is, whatever he decides, NY has operating parameters; somewhat flexible but not with definitions that can be ignored.
If those parameters are broken, whether it is Eichel, Hertl, or someone else there will be consequences which are likely not worth it [an exception could be a guy like Barkov, just to state the point, but he's not gonna be available].
======
Hertl is a good player
Sharks to my limited knowledge are first class organization
good luck
