Proposal: NYR-SJS

[bernmeister]

eloquent retort for me agreeing with you as to a deal or no deal

somebody tell Howie Mandel he's got nothin to worry 'bout.

 

[Groo]

eloquent retort for me agreeing with you as to a deal or no deal

somebody tell Howie Mandel he's got nothin to worry 'bout.

That's not what it was for.
Might wanna put off patting yourself on the back for a while

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You can have 2 playmaking D esp when they are opposite sides.
But we have additional needs:
shot for PP, clear the crease types, etc.
Fox is already here and not going anywhere
Jones will go as soon as his value is sufficiently upped.

Those needs aren't as valuable as having another playmaking defenseman.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I am willing to pay a rental price and gamble we can give him just enough on 4 yrs for him to bite. And if he wants to walk after 1 yr, that's fine we paid fair rental not an overpay for what = fully extended.
Do not want to go past 4 yrs,

Now, if he is willing to do 4 yrs and there is a sign and trade, we can discuss how much more that is worth.
Would prefer not to pay SJ a premium and gamble player will sign.
But there should be room to accommodate IF IF IF it is in the right currency.
Bluest blue chips not on the table

Well then you are going to be outbid by a lot of other teams that are willing to pay for his extension

What blue chip prospects are being asked for? No one said Lafreniere

Chytil + 1st + Schneider is a very fair deal for Hertl extended

 

[Lays]

Well then you are going to be outbid by a lot of other teams that are willing to pay for his extension

What blue chip prospects are being asked for? No one said Lafreniere

Chytil + 1st + Schneider is a very fair deal for Hertl extended

Chytil+1st+Schneider is definitely not a fair deal for an extended Hertl. That’s terrible for NY. A center who put up .5 PPG in his 21 year old season with no PP/Top 6 time, a mid first in a deep draft, and a blue chip RHD prospect? Mark Stone extended returned Brannstrom+2nd. Schneider is roughly around Brannstrom as a prospect, then you want us to add two pieces with the value of a mid first for a player that isn’t even as good as Stone and a player who’s been openly disgruntled with the Sharks situation?

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Chytil+1st+Schneider is definitely not a fair deal for an extended Hertl. That’s terrible for NY. A center who put up .5 PPG in his 21 year old season with no PP/Top 6 time, a mid first in a deep draft, and a blue chip RHD prospect? Mark Stone extended returned Brannstrom+2nd. Schneider is roughly around Brannstrom as a prospect, then you want us to add two pieces with the value of a mid first for a player that isn’t even as good as Stone and a player who’s been openly disgruntled with the Sharks situation?

First of all Mark Stone was also disgruntled and did not come with an extension, that was a last minute TDL deal that forced Ottawa's hand. If we are talking a preseason trade then I think this is 100% reasonable. Schneider is also a good prospect but not a blue chip prospect

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Chytil+1st+Schneider is definitely not a fair deal for an extended Hertl. That’s terrible for NY. A center who put up .5 PPG in his 21 year old season with no PP/Top 6 time, a mid first in a deep draft, and a blue chip RHD prospect? Mark Stone extended returned Brannstrom+2nd. Schneider is roughly around Brannstrom as a prospect, then you want us to add two pieces with the value of a mid first for a player that isn’t even as good as Stone and a player who’s been openly disgruntled with the Sharks situation?

He has not been openly disgruntled. That is a pretty bad read of the situation. Stone and Hertl aren't real comparables considering their positions.

 

[SRHRangers]

Schneider is off the table.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Rangers have no business trading Jones. He’s our only LHD with any significant amount of offense in his game. We also have too many RHD’s. Schneider or Lundkvist will be traded. Trouba is going nowhere and we aren’t playing with four RHD’s, so bringing up Jones for a trade makes no sense. I don’t know why so many do so before bringing up Schneider or Lundkvist.

 

[Chayos]

I love how you continue to spout shit about how our proposals are bad but when we tell you your proposals are bad you ignore them and continue with shit proposals for our 1C.

I know what you mean. I don't even mention Broberg around him anymore.

 

[bernmeister]

Those needs aren't as valuable as having another playmaking defenseman.

say I agree
Nils L can play either side, and while he is more important as a serious shot esp for PP, we project he can handle QB duties.

while Jones can do more than just QB, playmaker is his strength
but again, w/Fox Jones is redundant
unless we play him at W [if I recall he was repurposed from there]

 

[bernmeister]

Well then you are going to be outbid by a lot of other teams that are willing to pay for his extension

What blue chip prospects are being asked for? No one said Lafreniere

Chytil + 1st + Schneider is a very fair deal for Hertl extended

I accept taking my chances on the bold
also, Hertl may decide not to extend with anyone and test the market
I get IF you are suggesting a sign and trade THEN IF that happens that alleviates risk which affects price.
But would rather just try to get him as ufa for 4 yrs only

More importantly
to what extent
"Chytil + 1st + Schneider is ... very fair" is besides the point.

Please, peeps, one more time:
Strome is going. Zib may stay and he will certainly in any event get more than the 5+ he gets now.

Fox - needs long term deal so max cost effective cap over time.

Then, what people are ignoring,
LaF + Kakko = elc ->rfa after this season
Kravtsov the same

We are not dealing LaF, Kakko, Kravtsov
even if we did
we would have to replace them with vets
quality vets are gonna cost

It is just counterproductive and not gonna work.

 

[bernmeister]

I know what you mean. I don't even mention Broberg around him anymore.

stop
Broberg for Buch was fair value

It was proper to continue to assert that until Klefbom went down, at which point THEN Broberg was arguably more needed as D then as trade asset for W scoring.
At that pt, I dropped Broberg.

tell it like it is
let your conscience be your guide

without erroneous attempted historical rewrites

 

[Pinkfloyd]

say I agree
Nils L can play either side, and while he is more important as a serious shot esp for PP, we project he can handle QB duties.

while Jones can do more than just QB, playmaker is his strength
but again, w/Fox Jones is redundant
unless we play him at W [if I recall he was repurposed from there]

I think it's a tad hasty to assume Lundkvist can play both sides. Vlasic can play both sides. It doesn't mean he's good at it. It's logically inconsistent to believe that Fox makes Jones redundant but not Lundkvist or Schneider. If position doesn't matter to you and it's purely play style, why wouldn't Fox make the other two redundant as well? It's not as if Fox doesn't play similarly to the other two as well. Yes they're all different but for role purposes, they're more or less the same.

 

[Chayos]

stop
Broberg for Buch was fair value

It was proper to continue to assert that until Klefbom went down, at which point THEN Broberg was arguably more needed as D then as trade asset for W scoring.
At that pt, I dropped Broberg.

tell it like it is
let your conscience be your guide

without erroneous attempted historical rewrites

I am not lying if that is what you are saying? Did I say anything untrue like the above? It went on for months and even after we thought it had died it came back.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

He has not been openly disgruntled. That is a pretty bad read of the situation. Stone and Hertl aren't real comparables considering their positions.

He will become disgruntled, he just doesn’t know it yet

 

[DollardStLaurent]

I wouldn't put anything past Wilson. He's known for making head scratching decisions.

 

[Machinehead]

Hertl may be the only realistic target in the league I would move Chytil and a prime D prospect for.

It would hurt, but I think we're a Cup contender right now with Hertl.

 

[KevinFinnerty]

I’d rather let Strome continue to put up around 60 point seasons with Panarin and poach Hertl asset-free in UFA next year

 

[bernmeister]

I am not lying if that is what you are saying? Did I say anything untrue like the above? It went on for months and even after we thought it had died it came back.

that comment is true, not untrue
obviously is subjective and can't be established definitively either way
but

while most NYR fans did not want to move Buch early, as I was willing,
when push came to shove and it was clear NY could not afford him,
most where happy w/a 10-12OA return or better, which is what Broberg is.

 

[bernmeister]

Hertl may be the only realistic target in the league I would move Chytil and a prime D prospect for.

It would hurt, but I think we're a Cup contender right now with Hertl.

it is not worth the loss of youth

Chytil is unavailable, needed to replace Strome, who must go if for no other reason b'c of $ -- also Chytil ceiling projects as better all around player.

Jones is the only D who can be made available.

 

[bernmeister]

I think it's a tad hasty to assume Lundkvist can play both sides. Vlasic can play both sides. It doesn't mean he's good at it. It's logically inconsistent to believe that Fox makes Jones redundant but not Lundkvist or Schneider. If position doesn't matter to you and it's purely play style, why wouldn't Fox make the other two redundant as well? It's not as if Fox doesn't play similarly to the other two as well. Yes they're all different but for role purposes, they're more or less the same.

"tad hasty to assume Lundkvist can play both sides. Vlasic can play both sides. It doesn't mean he's good at it."
We think Jones is actually better at playing either side, but Nils L checks off that box also, sufficiently. Using Vlastic as a basis of comparison is not applicable.


"It's logically inconsistent to believe that Fox makes Jones redundant but not Lundkvist or Schneider. If position doesn't matter to you and it's purely play style, why wouldn't Fox make the other two redundant as well? It's not as if Fox doesn't play similarly to the other two as well. Yes they're all different but for role purposes, they're more or less the same."

These guys are not exact clones of each other, which is what your fallacy is suggesting. Each has strengths and weaknesses.
We will keep righty shot Nils for PP. Our right side is clear notwithstanding we have to hope after this season to deal or otherwise repurpose Trouba.

We have a larger glut at LD but there we need more toughness + clear the crease.

So again, Jones, and only Jones atp is odd man out

 

[Stewie Griffin]

I like how one team needs a center and has RHD to make available in trades, and the other team has a center to trade with a need of RHD prospects yet this Bernmeister guy has gone on for multiple pages how Jones essentially isnt as good as his other prospects and therefore he'll only trade Jones.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

"tad hasty to assume Lundkvist can play both sides. Vlasic can play both sides. It doesn't mean he's good at it."
We think Jones is actually better at playing either side, but Nils L checks off that box also, sufficiently. Using Vlastic as a basis of comparison is not applicable.


"It's logically inconsistent to believe that Fox makes Jones redundant but not Lundkvist or Schneider. If position doesn't matter to you and it's purely play style, why wouldn't Fox make the other two redundant as well? It's not as if Fox doesn't play similarly to the other two as well. Yes they're all different but for role purposes, they're more or less the same."

These guys are not exact clones of each other, which is what your fallacy is suggesting. Each has strengths and weaknesses.
We will keep righty shot Nils for PP. Our right side is clear notwithstanding we have to hope after this season to deal or otherwise repurpose Trouba.

We have a larger glut at LD but there we need more toughness + clear the crease.

So again, Jones, and only Jones atp is odd man out

So I didn’t say they were clones. I said they were similar and you didn’t respond to that. Rather you created a straw man and didn’t even respond to that. Now it’s a position thing and you expect to move Trouba instead of one of Lundkvist or Schneider. Jones would be better to keep simply because the style is helpful and there isn’t as much depth on the left side.

 

[bernmeister]

I like how one team needs a center and has RHD to make available in trades, and the other team has a center to trade with a need of RHD prospects yet this Bernmeister guy has gone on for multiple pages how Jones essentially isnt as good as his other prospects and therefore he'll only trade Jones.

I'm not glad you and others require me to reassert clarifying correction to your statements. CONTINUOUSLY

"One team needs a C" -- ok, everybody besides LA could use one.

"a center and has RHD to make available in trades"
NO WRONG.
As explained, there is no surplus righty RD.
Nils is making the team, and provides needed righty PP shot specialty on top of general excellence.

Schneider is unavailable b'c we are gonna have to do something, whether he likes it or not, with Trouba long term. This season no prob. Next can likely juggle, after this, he has gotta be moved. His nmc is not for entire duration of contract. He would be asked, in exchange for us owing him a solid when he hangs up his skates, to let it go a year or two early. This is not a slam dunk given but is theoretically possible.
At that point, Schneid is the elc replacement for his big salary.

And why is that so critical?
b'c as explained....
Fox gets long term deal to constrain long term cap
AND
after this season
LaF + Kakko = elc ->rfa
with Kravtsov same following season

Stop ignoring this like it isn't reality for Rangers just b'c you want one of our bluest blue chip assets who is not available.

Jones is so in the mold of Fox, he is the only one who is truly redundant and hence available.

"yet this Bernmeister guy has gone on for multiple pages how Jones essentially isnt as good as his other prospects and therefore he'll only trade Jones"
others fit other needs
Jones is redundant given Fox
it is not a matter of better or not, that is a moot point.

if you speak truth and admit that, we are fine.
If you continue to ignore that, don't know what I can tell you.