Proposal: NYR-SJS

[themelkman]

So you read the ask, stated it and ignored it? Chytil plus the first has always been the only starting point

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Hertl is a 1C though and one we know is almost definitely hitting the market (and who’s neck doesn’t need surgery). Couturier was extended and Barkov will soon be as well. I assume Malkin and Bergeron are staying put.

That only leaves Eichel’s neck surgery/trade saga, the Rangers’ double shot UFAs Zib/Strome and Hertl. (Strome isn’t a 1C obviously.) Duchene’s trade package should remind you what value centers in particular have.

That’s a lot center hot 1C action but I have to admit I was disappointed Couturier signed so soon, I was hoping he would be available too and add to the mayhem.

Except you don’t know he is almost definitely hitting the market. That’s the problem with the premise of this thread.

 

[Guttersniped]

Except you don’t know he is almost definitely hitting the market. That’s the problem with the premise of this thread.

There’s a really good chance? I guess Wilson could potentially throw a mammoth 8 year contract and outbid everyone in a desperate attempt to get Hertl to stay but I don’t know if that’s feasible, much less a good idea. If the Sharks do badly in a bad division then a 28 year old center is very likely going to want to move on.

As a Sharks fan you may not be used to the non-playoff team thing but UFAs leave because they want to be on playoff teams.

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

“Tomas Hertl is a 1st round pick, high-end prospect and a player who will be NHL ready around the same time as William Eklund and is a center or defenseman.”

What the hell is this? That’s not an actual quote, is it?

 

[Shark Finn]

“Tomas Hertl is a 1st round pick, high-end prospect and a player who will be NHL ready around the same time as William Eklund and is a center or defenseman.”

What the hell is this? That’s not an actual quote, is it?

I suppose it's missing the word "worth".

 

[bernmeister]

So you read the ask, stated it and ignored it? Chytil plus the first has always been the only starting point

automatic no deal
Chytil is our replacement for Strome

we'd want to do Strome +/+ and add to Chytil and others, not replace

 

[bernmeister]

I love how you continue to spout shit about how our proposals are bad but when we tell you your proposals are bad you ignore them and continue with shit proposals for our 1C.

stop the unmitigated bullshit

we have a dif of op
period

why I reject yours are established in objective basis supporting subjective conclusion (i.e., need Nils L for his righty shot offense +)
wish to agree, fine, disagree, fine
it's a free country, thank God

but let's stop with the bullshit and the false claim to being superior, shall we?

 

[bernmeister]

You realize you are getting Hertl (likely extended) in this scenario right?

As I said, want him for 4 yrs, not 7 extended, and am willing to pay rental + for him as a 1 yr rental on paper.
However, currency is key.

Either do my actual 1st +
or do something around Strome + Jones

Jones is a signif piece, which will be proven over time

 

[bernmeister]

You're still deciding to exaggerate the actual risk with Hertl. Also, how does Fox get in Jones' way? If Fox is in anyone's way, it's Lundqvist or Schneider. I can get behind a two 1st round pick package but you're not getting any sort of conditions on it because you're not offering anything else of value to us.

I'd be open to 2 def unprotected 1sts instead of 1 1st and 2 conditional 1sts

Fox is a playmaking D as is Jones
both do other stuff but that is their calling card

 

[Groo]

As I said, want him for 4 yrs, not 7 extended, and am willing to pay rental + for him as a 1 yr rental on paper.
However, currency is key.

Either do my actual 1st +
or do something around Strome + Jones

Jones is a signifgate piece, which will be proven over time

Great so it will lesson the sting when you have to give up one of Schneider or Lundkqvist

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

I suppose it's missing the word "worth".

Ahh, ok. Thank you, I was so confused, lol.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

As I said, want him for 4 yrs, not 7 extended, and am willing to pay rental + for him as a 1 yr rental on paper.
However, currency is key.

Either do my actual 1st +
or do something around Strome + Jones

Jones is a signif piece, which will be proven over time

So basically you dont want to pay what he's worth extended but you still want to get him with an extension?

 

[Gecklund]

stop the unmitigated bullshit

we have a dif of op
period

why I reject yours are established in objective basis supporting subjective conclusion (i.e., need Nils L for his righty shot offense +)
wish to agree, fine, disagree, fine
it's a free country, thank God

but let's stop with the bullshit and the false claim to being superior, shall we?

I think this is the best post you’ve ever made. Now only if you could learn to follow your own advice.

 

[themelkman]

automatic no deal
Chytil is our replacement for Strome

we'd want to do Strome +/+ and add to Chytil and others, not replace

And we have then said you cant get Hertl. Simple as it always has been. Just like your not getting Eichel without top prospects, your not getting Hertl without items of value to a rebuilding team.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'd be open to 2 def unprotected 1sts instead of 1 1st and 2 conditional 1sts

Fox is a playmaking D as is Jones
both do other stuff but that is their calling card

You can have two playmaking d-men on your team especially if they're on opposite sides. Don't know why you're limiting yourself unnecessarily. If you're doing a pick-based package, it'll be two 1st round picks, Strome, and another pick but I tend to believe other teams will make a quality prospect we would want available here and that'd be more likely to be taken.

 

[Patty Ice]

Based on this from the Athletic: "Tomas Hertl is a 1st round pick, high-end prospect and a player who will be NHL ready around the same time as William Eklund and is a center or defenseman."

While I doubt they get that as that is a lot for a pending UFA too. I think Hertl is a much better case scenario upgrade over Strome than Eichel.

2022 1st rounder + 2023 2nd round+ Strome + Zac Jones for Hertl extension (7 years 7m per)

Something on the lines of this.

So if you are basing your offer off that bit from the Athletic, who is the player? Jones? Strome doesn't fit under those guidelines. Where is the high-end prospect?

 

[ThePlanet]

As I said, want him for 4 yrs, not 7 extended, and am willing to pay rental + for him as a 1 yr rental on paper.
However, currency is key.

Either do my actual 1st +
or do something around Strome + Jones

Jones is a signif piece, which will be proven over time

What makes you think Hertl would be willing to sign for only four years?

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Stone is a winger and Hertl is a 1C. There's a value difference whether he's better or not. One is more readily available and one isn't. Also, Hertl isn't really a rental. The team will talk extension when everyone is in San Jose for the start of the season. If you want the team to move him at this point, you have to make it worth not re-signing him which even two 1st rounders won't do.

1) You think Hertl is worth more than a prime Stone? LOL
2) You act like it’s a guarantee Hertl will want to resign in San Jose- it’s not
3) Yes he is really a rental. He is in his last year of his contract. Your feelings don’t change that fact.
4) So now he is worth more than 2 1st rounders? Good luck with that

 

[Pinkfloyd]

1) You think Hertl is worth more than a prime Stone? LOL
2) You act like it’s a guarantee Hertl will want to resign in San Jose- it’s not
3) Yes he is really a rental. He is in his last year of his contract. Your feelings don’t change that fact.
4) So now he is worth more than 2 1st rounders? Good luck with that

You clearly didn't actually read the post and are arguing things that aren't there. The only thing you got right is that he's worth more than two 1st rounders compared to keeping him which is absolutely an option for them. Hertl does want to re-sign and I said there's a value difference between Stone a winger and a legitimate 1C in Hertl. Good luck getting him when chances are the team will decide to keep him. The OP cites that Hertl is worth a 1st, a high end prospect, and something else which is saying basically the same thing.

 

[n8]

Hertl's knees at 7x7 is a cap time bomb I would want to avoid. Also 1st, 2nd, Strome, Jones is bad asset management for the Rangers so I pass on that alone.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Hertl's knees at 7x7 is a cap time bomb I would want to avoid. Also 1st, 2nd, Strome, Jones is bad asset management for the Rangers so I pass on that alone.

You have little knowledge of Hertl's knees if you actually believe this drivel.

 

[KevinFinnerty]

1st and 2nd and Strome is a great offer. 50 point 2C

 

[bernmeister]

Great so it will lesson the sting when you have to give up one of Schneider or Lundkqvist

There is no lesson to be learned as to what would lessen the sting of giving up either of those 2 because they are off the table.
If no deal, then fine, no deal.

So basically you dont want to pay what he's worth extended but you still want to get him with an extension?

I am willing to pay a rental price and gamble we can give him just enough on 4 yrs for him to bite. And if he wants to walk after 1 yr, that's fine we paid fair rental not an overpay for what = fully extended.
Do not want to go past 4 yrs,

Now, if he is willing to do 4 yrs and there is a sign and trade, we can discuss how much more that is worth.
Would prefer not to pay SJ a premium and gamble player will sign.
But there should be room to accommodate IF IF IF it is in the right currency.
Bluest blue chips not on the table

And we have then said you cant get Hertl. Simple as it always has been. Just like your not getting Eichel without top prospects, your not getting Hertl without items of value to a rebuilding team.

Fine.
In that case do not want.
Pls acknowledge + admit if NY is extending Fox on a big deal which is more cost effective long term [we are]
AND
if after this season LaF + Kakko go elc-> rfa with Kravtsov same next season, then understand
NY can't part with its elc base, Jones an exception b'c duplication

We either looking at what I said or if the answer is no, fine.

You can have two playmaking d-men on your team especially if they're on opposite sides. Don't know why you're limiting yourself unnecessarily. If you're doing a pick-based package, it'll be two 1st round picks, Strome, and another pick but I tend to believe other teams will make a quality prospect we would want available here and that'd be more likely to be taken.

You can have 2 playmaking D esp when they are opposite sides.
But we have additional needs:
shot for PP, clear the crease types, etc.
Fox is already here and not going anywhere
Jones will go as soon as his value is sufficiently upped.

What makes you think Hertl would be willing to sign for only four years?

4 yrs at 8/8.5 is not chopped liver. And after that, if his wear and tear holds up, then we can talk about 1 yr at a time, maybe.
If that's not to his liking he has the market.
He will have gotten good $ for his earlier years

Rangers will not gamble and give a guy a long term deal and then if he breaks down, we are stuck with a big contract.

Also remember, all players eventually hang up their skates.
NYR owned by multibillion $ concern.
When he retires, he can get cushy job as consultant/scout, etc
NO PROB
play ball w/us now, we backscratch later

 

[bernmeister]

I think this is the best post you’ve ever made. Now only if you could learn to follow your own advice.

physician, heal thyself

 

[Groo]

There is no lesson to be learned as to what would lessen the sting of giving up either of those 2 because they are off the table.
If no deal, then fine, no deal.



I am willing to pay a rental price and gamble we can give him just enough on 4 yrs for him to bite. And if he wants to walk after 1 yr, that's fine we paid fair rental not an overpay for what = fully extended.
Do not want to go past 4 yrs,

Now, if he is willing to do 4 yrs and there is a sign and trade, we can discuss how much more that is worth.
Would prefer not to pay SJ a premium and gamble player will sign.
But there should be room to accommodate IF IF IF it is in the right currency.
Bluest blue chips not on the table



Fine.
In that case do not want.
Pls acknowledge + admit if NY is extending Fox on a big deal which is more cost effective long term [we are]
AND
if after this season LaF + Kakko go elc-> rfa with Kravtsov same next season, then understand
NY can't part with its elc base, Jones an exception b'c duplication

We either looking at what I said or if the answer is no, fine.



You can have 2 playmaking D esp when they are opposite sides.
But we have additional needs:
shot for PP, clear the crease types, etc.
Fox is already here and not going anywhere
Jones will go as soon as his value is sufficiently upped.



4 yrs at 8/8.5 is not chopped liver. And after that, if his wear and tear holds up, then we can talk about 1 yr at a time, maybe.
If that's not to his liking he has the market.
He will have gotten good $ for his earlier years

Rangers will not gamble and give a guy a long term deal and then if he breaks down, we are stuck with a big contract.

Also remember, all players eventually hang up their skates.
NYR owned by multibillion $ concern.
When he retires, he can get cushy job as consultant/scout, etc
NO PROB
play ball w/us now, we backscratch later