Confirmed with Link: NYR Fire John Davidson and Jeff Gorton

[TheTakedown]

I agree that the rebuild was going well but I also feel that it's moving to another phase, a lot of the best aspects of the rebuild (Fox, Lafreniere, Kakko) fell from the sky, and Gorton has handed out a number of bad contracts putting us in cap trouble before our next core can even legally drink.

Also, Drury is a star in the exec game and many teams wanted him. The Rangers may have just wanted to keep him.

The reason I'm not blowing my stack just yet (we'll see) is that I do see the rationale for a change.

I actually... agree with this. I mean, Gorts did hit on some very good later picks, but you're correct that the top assets that Gorton got were a) Draft lottery's (Kakko, Laf), b) players that wanted to be here and nowhere else (Panarin, Fox), and c) guys that were already here (Shesterkin)... Couple with some very stupid moves that sort of made sense on paper but shouldn't have happened as early as they did (Shatts Signing, Girardi Buyout, Trouba Overpay instead of just keeping Pionk).... Yeah, a lot of this stuff are some very bad marks.

I think we, as rangers fans, were more excited that we didn't have Sather and his "pull shit from the sky" attitude... but the more you break this down, the more accurate it is to say that Gorton is an above average GM. Nothing more

 

[Edge]

You have to wonder if we are ever going to get the real story of why this went down the way it went down.

I think everyone more or less knows. It's the same shit that happened to the Yankees when there wasn't a buffer for Steinbrenner.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Sooooo what was the issue then Jimbo?



if the Dolan and Rangers are gonna lie to us at least get damn stories straight

 

[haveandare]

So basically Fredo was ok with the direction of the team he just threw a hissy fit because JD and Gorton didn't back the letter? Is this where all this is headed?

My guess is more Gorton didn’t love the letter, JD tried to do his job as buffer between an impulsive child owner and an actual professional GM by not backing Gorton’s firing, and then they both got fired.

 

[JHS]

It's not about forcing trades. You don't clear your entire front office out to stay the course.

This idea that Drury is going to carry the mission forward as planned is bonkers.

The owner is impatient. He's a well documented moron who can't control his emotions, and has paper thin skin.

So yeah I see why people are worried.

Agree on all this but in reality- what could Dolan realistically trade away that would be a disaster? He's not getting rid of teams last two top picks, he won't get rid of Fox, Miller or Lindgren and he won't give away Igor. Are any of teh other guys really that big of a loss? A lot of us have killed the veteran group here all along-- would it really be that bad if a clean house approach minus the really key guys that clearly won't be going anywhere.

 

[majormajor]

I wish I was in the room when Colin Campbell found out about the statement. Releasing that goes against a sacred code of hockey management which is never bring the league into disrepute. Colie must have been furious.

Drury has his work cut out for him repairing the relationship between the governors and the Rangers. We might not make it out intact. I shudder to think how bad it could get.

I’m also expecting the Rangers will be on the pk very early tonight.

That's not a sacred code, that's the league having the power to punish you. Managers would have a lot more to say publicly about the league if they didn't fear them.

 

[Anzi]

My guess is that Dolan was unhappy after we were swept by the Canes last year and expected to see significant improvements this year. We were a long shot to make the playoffs but we had our chances. We dropped our last 4 games against the Islanders in which we only scored 3 goals, and had 16 goals against. We also dropped a bunch of very winnable games against the Flyers and the Sabres. We were in a do or die situation to make the playoffs and we didn't win the games we were supposed to win and were completely uncompetitive with the Islanders similar to how the Canes series went last year.

 

[Edge]

Hey if they fail to win the SC at least we know it won't ruin his weekend.



I'm sorry that I have but only one like to give for this post.

BTW after Carolina bottomed out it took them three subsequent seasons of middling play before they made the playoffs and became the team they are now. The Avalanche? After drafting MacKinnon, they immediately had a successful 112pt season but then regressed and went three more seasons before seeing the playoffs again. TB after drafting Stamkos and Hedman? Missed the playoffs in the following 3 out of next 4 years.

We've missed the playoffs 4 years, because no one counts last year's play-in round now apparently unless its to talk about how we were bounced.

Meanwhile, the alternative was to keep plugging along in mediocrity with not enough to win, but too much to completely fail. And BTW we'd still be at the crossroads with contracts like Zibanejad.

Part of me has to laugh because we missed for four years under Sather, without nearly as much hope for the future, and that Broadway hit bought him another decade.

But THIS, this is the direction we're worried about? Not buying it.

 

[chosen]

this is where i disagree with u. I think we were completely outworked by the isles. We did alot of standing while they kept skating. We out talent them, they outwork us.

But yes, injuries did play a big factor and i completely agree with the rest of what u said.

But i saw a team that just stopped skating.

You can't possibly believe that the team the Rangers had on the ice was more talented than whom the Islanders had on the ice.

In a year or two, maybe that's more talent, but not yet. The differences between the top 6 D is overwhelmingly better for the Islanders.

At forward, it's closer, but it's still the Islanders. The Isles also arguably have the best 4th line in hockey, and they are difference makers. Rangers 4th line might be as bad as any team in the league.

On paper, names like Laf and Kakko jump out with potential, but this year they haven't yet approached their respective ceilings.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

That all depends on how involved he is. If he backs off, and Sather is the bugger, the odds are better.

If he wants to be involve and is pushing, things get complicated.

We've seen what happens with the former, and we've seen what happens with the latter. And right now it's hard to predict which path he's going to go down, because his personality can be hard to predict.

In a weird way, Sather being here is comforting.

 

[Edge]

In a weird way, Sather being here is comforting.

We're going to need him, now more than ever.

And none of my views are a reflection of Drury. I'm really not concerned about him. I'm concerned about the environment we create for him.

 

[rangers1314]

You have to wonder if we are ever going to get the real story of why this went down the way it went down.

We will. This story is too big and there are too many parties involved for someone to not talk.

Maybe they wont put their name on it, in fact they probably won't, but someone will talk to an Elliotte/Bob Mac.

 

[rangers1314]

In a weird way, Sather being here is comforting.

Agreed totally, I just keep coming back to how/why he didnt talk Dolan off the Gorton ledge. Gorton was Sather's guy.

 

[chosen]

To me next year was the come to jesus PO or fired season. So I disagree vehemently with Dolan doing this when he did.

I say that even though I feel like we only got as far down the right path as we have because of unreal luck (and not nearly enough bc of GM skill)

In some ways the GM has actually taken us a half a step BACK from where we should be along that path (Thanks to BAD contracts that seem like they're guaranteed to cost us significantly)

Although you gotta wonder, does a stupid move like the CK contract really come from JD and Gorts? Was it a Dolan mandate not to lose a guy like CK? Pay him whatever he wants! Bc Dolan heard from someone on twitter that we lose too many heart and soul NYRs? idk. I'd like to think if the owner had started meddling that much prior to now we'd have heard something.

But then again you'd think we would have heard rumblings about dissatisfaction with JD and Gorts before a firing that seemingly came out of nowhere.

Gotta credit Dolan here, if his dissatisfaction with bad contracts, buyouts and dysfunction has been growing for more than just one season then he kept it VERY quiet

You're assigning logical thoughts to a blathering fool, in Dolan.

 

[RangerBoy]

Dolan fired JD and Gorton because the Rangers were a soft team. Matt Martin concussed Jacob Trouba. Martin elbowed Zibanejad in the face. Cal Clutterbuck checked Ryan Lindgren into the curved part of the glass at the Rangers bench. Tom Wilson threw Artemi Panarin around like a doll. Wilson punched Pavel Buchnevich in the head.

A very long time ago, Dolan lost his mind after Renney didn't dress Colton Orr against the Flyers. Ben Eager and Todd Fedoruk beat up the Rangers. Orr was in the stands eating popcorn. Dolan read the riot act to Glen Sather and Tom Renney. I believe Brooks reported that at the time. Orr was dressed in the next Rangers-Flyers game.

I remember people on this board were annoyed by what took place in the Flyers games. The Rangers looked like chumps.

This was payback for the battering Jaromir Jagr took from the Flyers in general and Todd Fedoruk and Derian Hatcher in particular when they last came to town in that fateful Feb. 17 match in which Brendan Shanahan and Mike Knuble sustained serious injuries in the aftermath of their blindside collision at center ice.

This was vengeance for all that, and for the elbow to the head Jagr took from Hatcher in Philadelphia on Dec. 12, and it was delivered in the form of a brutal right-hand punch from Colton Orr that caught Fedoruk flush on the left side of the head and knocked out the Flyers’ enforcer, KO’d him cold 21 seconds into last night’s 5-0 Rangers’ victory at the Garden in which Shanahan made his return after missing 15 games.

Orr dressed for the game in Philadelphia but did not respond to Hatcher’s unpenalized elbow. After that game, a 3-1 Rangers’ victory, Tom Renney suggested the score had been too close to seek retribution. And Orr did not dress for the Feb. 17 match during which the Flyers mugged Jagr and his teammates with impunity. The next day the coach castigated himself for keeping the team’s street cop in street clothes for the 5-3 loss.

Last night, though, Orr was dressed, armed and ready. He tapped Fedoruk on the thigh with his stick during the game’s first shift, hockey’s time-honored invitation to drop the gloves. Fedoruk, who previously had the left side of his face crushed during an Oct. 27 fight with Minnesota’s Derek Boogaard, accepted the invite, only to be dropped to the frozen canvas when Orr caught him with the straight right.

SHAN-TO-HAND COMBAT

The Rangers looked like chumps last week too. Those games were frustrating to watch.

Jesper Fast was concussed by Brady Skjei last summer. Nothing happened.

 

[NYR94]

The best case scenario is a few years from now after winning a Cup with this group we're sad that JD and Gorton aren't here to enjoy it and what happened yesterday was just an embarrassing episode but ultimately didn't derail the rebuild.

Worst case scenario I don't even want to think about.

 

[mas0764]

Even if we take out the Dolan is a psychopath narrative, his approach is a proven failure for the teams he's been more actively involved in. There is no track record of success. In fact, there's some abysmal failures. So yeah, he doesn't have the benefit of the doubt coming into this situation.

As for JD and Gorton, I don't think the question is whether or not they were perfect. The question was whether or not they were executing their plan --- and to that extent they were getting high marks from both fans and those around the sport.

I also don't think they were incredibly far off from taking advantage of those prime years you're talking about. I disagree with recent moves having us sideways as well. Look no further than this recent stretch without Trouba to get a glimpse of how things would've looked without him over a longer stretch. If anything, I think in some ways the moves almost made us too good and pushed us into the realm of people expecting the playoffs this season. So in that sense, I think they actually become a bit of a double-edged sword.

At the end of the day, I think there was significantly more good than bad, with even better days to come. I think we can look at most anyone in any position and find enough to fire them. That's not really hard to do. But I honestly think this wasn't a hockey decision, this was a Jim Dolan thing. And it's his toy chest and his toys, so here we are.

It's been denied at all levels that this had anything to do with a statement. At the same time, it would be really, really petulant (and short sighted) to fire JD/Gorton for falling short of the playoffs and then hand the reigns over to someone who apparently wants the ship to keep heading in the same direction as Drury has said. You'd think a "playoffs or bust," mandate to trade the kids for productive vets would have come with some sort of hint today that this is the direction things are going to head, but that was not the case.

I'm left believing that irrational impatience was but a part, but the larger picture was that Dolan did not evaluate the broad body of Gorton's moves the same way the fans did (ie trade history and signings), and ultimately was in love with the idea of Drury as the GM here and couldn't risk losing him.

I have to question how much better you can expect from a GM in terms of trades and signings, cause every GM will be a mixed bag at the end of the day, but I do feel better if this is mostly Dolan feeling like he has a young stud GM to run the show for 20 years on his hands.

 

[Anzi]

You can't possibly believe that the team the Rangers had on the ice was more talented than whom the Islanders had on the ice.

In a year or two, maybe that's more talent, but not yet. The differences between the top 6 D is overwhelmingly better for the Islanders.

At forward, it's closer, but it's still the Islanders. The Isles also arguably have the best 4th line in hockey, and they are difference makers. Rangers 4th line might be as bad as any team in the league.

On paper, names like Laf and Kakko jump out with potential, but this year they haven't yet approached their respective ceilings.

The Islanders are the better team but we shouldn't be losing that badly to them. We scored a single goal in our last 3 games against the Islanders and lost by a combined 12 goals. Dolan expected to see improvements from last year where we got swept by the Canes and was probably very disappointed by how uncompetitive we were with the season on the line.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

My guess is more Gorton didn’t love the letter, JD tried to do his job as buffer between an impulsive child owner and an actual professional GM by not backing Gorton’s firing, and then they both got fired.

Agree. It's the only thing that makes sense.

 

[rangers1314]

It would be fitting for Gorton to go to Buffalo.

He'd know Drury basically has a mandate to go get Eichel and he'd bend us over.

 

[cheech70]

I think everyone more or less knows. It's the same shit that happened to the Yankees when there wasn't a buffer for Steinbrenner.

I am trying to think of a specific time Dolan interfered with the Rangers in regard to Players etc..can't think of one. I am a season ticket holder and he rarely is at the games...quite the opposite of his beloved Knicks. Slats had his complete confidence and the fact he kept bumping Drurys title and pay due to outside potential offers indicates he knew he had a valuable asset. Plain and simple this had everything to do with The Statement and the im·bro·glio that followed. Slats being the loyal lieutenant covered Dolan's butt. Strategy moving forward is on the same path. To say Dolan has been a lunatic with the Rangers is melding the craziness of Oakley and the Spike Lee controversy's which I do not recall happening on the hockey side of the business.

 

[Edge]

I actually... agree with this. I mean, Gorts did hit on some very good later picks, but you're correct that the top assets that Gorton got were a) Draft lottery's (Kakko, Laf), b) players that wanted to be here and nowhere else (Panarin, Fox), and c) guys that were already here (Shesterkin)... Couple with some very stupid moves that sort of made sense on paper but shouldn't have happened as early as they did (Shatts Signing, Girardi Buyout, Trouba Overpay instead of just keeping Pionk).... Yeah, a lot of this stuff are some very bad marks.

I think we, as rangers fans, were more excited that we didn't have Sather and his "pull shit from the sky" attitude... but the more you break this down, the more accurate it is to say that Gorton is an above average GM. Nothing more

See I disagree with this.

The problem with the "fell from the sky" narrative is that it's a no-win situation. If those guys succeed, well you got lucky and they were supposed to succeed. If they fail, well that's your fault and you're an idiot. So there's nothing to win there, only lose.

But let's take them out for a second and replace them with Zegras and Lundell. Are we still just lucky? We knew those were the guys before they did what they did in their D+1 seasons. The Rangers knew that in their D-1 seasons.

Yeah they traded for Fox, but they still had to trade him and they still got him at a damn good cost.

The Trouba thing we try to argue both ways. On the one hand we see how much we've missed him and his impact on the lineup when he's out. On the other hand we're talking about overpaying him instead of holding onto Pionk. So we hold onto Pionk, how in the world does that make us better? If we think we're easy to play against now, good luck swapping out Pionk for Trouba.

The Girardi contract predates Gorton. If we're going to include him in the blame for that as an assistant, than we also have to acknowledge his role in drafting Shesterkin, Buch, etc. before he was GM. We can't just selectively cut that out if we wanna include the contracts that pre-date him. It's both or neither.

I'm sorry but I think some of this is Post hoc rationalisation at this point.

 

[JCProdigy]

Agree on all this but in reality- what could Dolan realistically trade away that would be a disaster? He's not getting rid of teams last two top picks, he won't get rid of Fox, Miller or Lindgren and he won't give away Igor. Are any of teh other guys really that big of a loss? A lot of us have killed the veteran group here all along-- would it really be that bad if a clean house approach minus the really key guys that clearly won't be going anywhere.

It's not even so much of the guys traded being that big of a loss. It's that if you are at all pressured to bring in the big time name or just the wrong player at the wrong time.

People say this all the time: "Well at least we didn't end up giving up anybody of note in that trade" but we did. We gave up the trade capital at that time.

Losing the players, Brendl, Hlavac, and Johnsson didn't really mean much but losing what they were worth in trade capital at that time for the wrong "flashy" player in Lindros, did mean much.

 

[Kodiak]

I think everyone more or less knows. It's the same shit that happened to the Yankees when there wasn't a buffer for Steinbrenner.

We can say this has all of the earmarks of a Dolan temper tantrum, but that still leaves so many questions about what set it off. Was it missing the playoffs? Was it getting manhandled by Wilson with no response? Was it the team statement? Was it the lifeless games against the Islanders? Was it all of the above combining to become a personal embarrassment to Dolan?

But the question I am most intrigued by is how does Drury come out of this unscathed? He was heavily involved in all of the decisions up to this point, and yet he looks better to Dolan than JD and Gorton. His two superiors get canned, and he Littlefingers his way to President/GM. (I'm not saying Drury did anything underhanded. I am just curious to see how we got down this path.)

 

[Edge]

I am trying to think of a specific time Dolan interfered with the Rangers in regard to Players etc..can't think of one. I am a season ticket holder and he rarely is at the games...quite the opposite of his beloved Knicks. Slats had his complete confidence and the fact he kept bumping Drurys title and pay due to outside potential offers indicates he knew he had a valuable asset. Plain and simple this had everything to do with The Statement and the im·bro·glio that followed. Slats being the loyal lieutenant covered Dolan's butt. Strategy moving forward is on the same path. To say Dolan has been a lunatic with the Rangers is melding the craziness of Oakley and the Spike Lee controversy's which I do not recall happening on the hockey side of the business.

Do a survey of the 1997-2001/02 Rangers. There's your involved Dolan. And I know, because I worked there.