Confirmed with Link: NYR Fire John Davidson and Jeff Gorton

[Larrybiv]

Drury has worked for the organization for six years. He has very clearly been ready for a GM role as other teams have coveted him and he's turned them down. He might be unproven in those precised roles, but at some point he was either going to leave or need to get promoted here.

Let's not act like this is Messier who just wants to be given a lead role without paying his dues. Drury has been a Rangers loyalist and has put in a lot of work for more than half a decade. He's earned this chance whether with us or someone else.

Yes, and indeed I appreciate your defending him. Didnt mean it to be anti-Chris in any way.......just kind if thinking that this was brought on suddenly and he probably didnt want it "this way".

Surely he is very close to J.D. Probably Gorton as well.

 

[chosen]

I agree. I wasn't saying anything to the contrary

The caveat is that obviously there is a standard a team like the NYR (nearly rebuilt) should meet against any team. Looking at Carolina and at how we all too frequently played against teams at all levels this year and THEN looking at the game in game out consistency issues, etc. I have felt for awhile like this was not us heading in the right direction. At least, not ENOUGH in the right direction. Like we should be 3 or 4 steps and we're only 2....and one of those steps was way too reliant on luck

Like I was mentioning before, the way this team has been coached since AV and the way the roster has been built since then led to us being a team that has some glaring deficiencies when it comes to physicality. We don't need Brashear. We need Cally, Dubs, Prust, Boyle types. Guys of varying skill levels who inject that throughout the lineup while still being good players for us

Back then we'd have killed for a Panarin and Zib to add to that group.

We finally got them but we didn't slowly add the heart and soul guys to compliment.

Lemieux was an attempt at least but we saw how that went. He just wasnt that great at it. Smith will get chippy but his overall game just isn't up to snuff.

You're right about a lot but this was the season most of the skill guys arrived. It was a season to evaluate. Next season was supposed to be the tinkering and adjusting.

I'm an old timer, here, and I've never seen more young talent here and in the pipeline.

People complaining about the GM think there's such a thing as a perfect GM or a perfect coach. There is no such creature.

We were absolutely on the right track. Now, who knows?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Media always looking for a soundbite.

I think there's a fine line between "looking for a soundbite" and "asking challenging questions".

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Ratings for the last two games in NY -100.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Even if we take out the Dolan is a psychopath narrative, his approach is a proven failure for the teams he's been more actively involved in. There is no track record of success. In fact, there's some abysmal failures. So yeah, he doesn't have the benefit of the doubt coming into this situation.

As for JD and Gorton, I don't think the question is whether or not they were perfect. The question was whether or not they were executing their plan --- and to that extent they were getting high marks from both fans and those around the sport.

I also don't think they were incredibly far off from taking advantage of those prime years you're talking about. I disagree with recent moves having us sideways as well. Look no further than this recent stretch without Trouba to get a glimpse of how things would've looked without him over a longer stretch. If anything, I think in some ways the moves almost made us too good and pushed us into the realm of people expecting the playoffs this season. So in that sense, I think they actually become a bit of a double-edged sword.

At the end of the day, I think there was significantly more good than bad, with even better days to come. I think we can look at most anyone in any position and find enough to fire them. That's not really hard to do. But I honestly think this wasn't a hockey decision, this was a Jim Dolan thing. And it's his toy chest and his toys, so here we are.

Has there been any talk in the hallways on the significance of the 2023 draft?

 

[Ruggs225]

I think the challenge is that people get very up or very down on a team.

The Rangers make a push for the playoffs, win an unprecedented four of four from a team and you hear "Teams just don't do that in the NHL."

They get manhandled by a team they match up poorly against and people are seeing the four horseman riding up over MSG.

We have these wild swings from fans sometimes that tend to be very reactionary. That's somewhat expected. You live with it, and ultimately it doesn't change anything. But when the person in charge does it, that's when things get a bit dicey.

oh i understand. My problem wasnt as much losing to the isles, but how we lost. We just sort of floated those games. No fire, no energy. Its like we didnt try. To me that is more of a problem then actually losing.

same goes to carolina last year. And that was a team we matched up well with and swept the season series.

i should add that i didnt want either JD or Gorts gone. I am still mot sure why they got the hook. Quinn is an obvious problem and the lineup needed tweaking. But they gave us a hell or a good starting point. And this season really revealed who is our core and not.

 

[chosen]

i honestly cant remember anymore.
I just know this is how i feel. I thought we would wither barely make it in or barely miss. I am highly disappointed with the teams play the last few weeks. And the complete lack of effort on the ice.
But thats just me.

.
I had zero problems with effort. They were severely out-talented at the end, and injuries to key players didn't help.

Lindgren and Trouba out left a mess, although I love what I have seen from Jones. He always seems to make the right outlet pass and never panics. Miller, on the other hand, has been trash, lately. Hajek sucks.

 

[NikC]

I have been one of the most ardent defenders of the team's progress this year. I believe the strides made were impressive by many of the youngers (Fox, Laf, KK, etc.). And while I, like others, deeply appreciate your insight, I feel like you're leaning so hard into the "Dolan is a psychopath" angle here and might be a bit blind to the fact that real issues exist as a result of JD & JG. I can honestly understand why an owner would be upset with them and want them gone. Just a few that I've been thinking about since the firing:

• We've spent a lot of money on players in their prime. Panarin, Kreider, Trouba, etc. If we're not ready to compete soon, what were we thinking? Were these last two years Panarin's best? How much longer can we wait? This begs the question about what their position on re-signing 28-year-old Mika Zibanejad may have been if JDJG did not think we were ready to take the next step?
  
  
• I have to imagine the decision to choose Georgiev over keeping Hank around to mentor Shesty did not sit well. Georgiev was terrible for most of this year and is looking like a career backup. This was obvious to many of us on here who continuously pointed out Georgiev's erratic performances. We tossed aside one of the most important players in franchise history in favor of a guy we might now move anyway.
  
  
• The ADA situation. I believe the right call was made in getting rid of him. But how can you justify to your boss handing out the second largest contract on defense and then just months later excuse away banishing him. It's not like these issues with ADA weren't apparent prior to this. He didn't suddenly morph into a troubled human.
  
  
• JT Miller. The Ryan McD trade, where we just threw in JT Miller might very well go down as one of the worst in history. Miller is now a premier center in the NHL and he was nothing more than a toss-in. You can point out the other successful trades that have been made, but they don't make up for trading a #1 D-Man and a #1 Center for arguably the two worst players in the NHL and some picks.
  
  
• Lack of protection for our star players. We've gotten completely manhandled for the last week. The Islanders knocked out our premier D-Man and we did nothing. The same player who knocked him out elbowed our star center in the face and we did nothing. Wilson nearly killed our two top wingers and in the game we did nothing. It was obvious last year we needed some level of protection for them and instead, we built a fourth line around Rooney and Howden. A thug on skates would be as effective as Brett Howden. Everyone should be upset with what transpired there this year.
  
  
• Constant wastes of money. I don't care how rich you are, lighting money on fire with buyouts of Hank, Shatty, now ADA, etc. cannot make anyone happy. Every single year we have to talk about irresponsible contracts that we're forced to buy out. It's ridiculous and I'm sick of it and I'm sure the one floating the bill is even more so.

The fact is JD absolutely failed in Columbus and wasn't fully responsible for St. Louis. He could never get his teams over the hump when he took over a full rebuild. Same goes for Gorton who appears to just have become a lackey of JD rather than a Sather mentee, which is clearly what Dolan wanted. Chris Drury is extremely bright and I have a lot of faith in him. The team has been mired in mediocrity, a lot of the moves we've made have no direct other than sideways. How can you justify signing Trouba and Panarin to massive contracts in their primes when you also want to justify taking more years to rebuild? There's no logic here. There's no direction here.

I would have been fine keeping both of them on for another year or so. But I also am absolutely fine with moving on from them and think all the "sky is falling" posts in here are a severe overreaction to two guys who aren't even on the ice and have never played a premier role in getting their teams to the promised land.

Wow! You have done a great job here summarizing the flaws in this rebuilding process. Things weren't adding up.
Too much throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.

Thank you

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

my guess that public embarrassment/character assassination of ADA did not sit well with Drury?

My guess is you need to pull your head out of Tony D's ass.

 

[Edge]

oh i understand. My problem wasnt as much losing to the isles, but how we lost. We just sort of floated those games. No fire, no energy. Its like we didnt try. To me that is more of a problem then actually losing.

same goes to carolina last year. And that was a team we matched up well with and swept the season series.

I think we're more or less the same team, which is why it happened. I also think either way it was going to be addressed this upcoming offseason.

I don't think this was Gorton or JD's final vision, so much as a work in progress. Yet there's almost this undercurrent of talk that almost implies it was, or at the very least borders on evaluating it as if it was.

That's where that instant gratification element comes into play. People want what they want. But sometimes its just not available, or the price point isn't there. Just because a team wants or needs something doesn't mean they go down to "Ye Old Trade Market" and pick it up.

I personally think this was not the time, nor the season, nor the circumstances to do something this knee-jerk.

 

[chosen]

My guess is you need to pull your head out of Tony D's ass.

Too late. He's gone full Human Centipede.

 

[Edge]

Lol Dolan cleans house for “underachieving” snd gives Drury both jobs. Drury doesn’t want to commit to being a playoff team.

Again I don’t mind him being GM but I’d like to hear why we actually impulsively fired the front office because it’s very clearly not about underachieving

The underachieving is clearly the cover. Because the coach is still here and someone who was joined at the hip with JD and Gorton is still here.

Let's be clear, it's Dolan's team so he's gonna do what he wants. But that doesn't necessarily translate into the best statement.

 

[Ruggs225]

.
I had zero problems with effort. They were severely out-talented at the end, and injuries to key players didn't help.

this is where i disagree with u. I think we were completely outworked by the isles. We did alot of standing while they kept skating. We out talent them, they outwork us.

But yes, injuries did play a big factor and i completely agree with the rest of what u said.

But i saw a team that just stopped skating.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

The underachieving is clearly the cover. Because the coach is still here and someone who was joined at the hip with JD and Gorton is still here.

Let's be clear, it's Dolan's team so he's gonna do what he wants. But that doesn't necessarily translate into the best statement.

So basically Fredo was ok with the direction of the team he just threw a hissy fit because JD and Gorton didn't back the letter? Is this where all this is headed?

 

[Ruggs225]

I think we're more or less the same team, which is why it happened. I also think either way it was going to be addressed this upcoming offseason.

I don't think this was Gorton or JD's final vision, so much as a work in progress. Yet there's almost this undercurrent of talk that almost implies it was, or at the very least borders on evaluating it as if it was.

That's where that instant gratification element comes into play. People want what they want. But sometimes its just not available, or the price point isn't there. Just because a team wants or needs something doesn't mean they go down to "Ye Old Trade Market" and pick it up.

I personally think this was not the time, nor the season, nor the circumstances to do something this knee-jerk.

i edited my original post, but might have missed it. I completely agree.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

You're right about a lot but this was the season most of the skill guys arrived. It was a season to evaluate. Next season was supposed to be the tinkering and adjusting.

I'm an old timer, here, and I've never seen more young talent here and in the pipeline.

People complaining about the GM think there's such a thing as a perfect GM or a perfect coach. There is no such creature.

We were absolutely on the right track. Now, who knows?

To me next year was the come to jesus PO or fired season. So I disagree vehemently with Dolan doing this when he did.

I say that even though I feel like we only got as far down the right path as we have because of unreal luck (and not nearly enough bc of GM skill)

In some ways the GM has actually taken us a half a step BACK from where we should be along that path (Thanks to BAD contracts that seem like they're guaranteed to cost us significantly)

Although you gotta wonder, does a stupid move like the CK contract really come from JD and Gorts? Was it a Dolan mandate not to lose a guy like CK? Pay him whatever he wants! Bc Dolan heard from someone on twitter that we lose too many heart and soul NYRs? idk. I'd like to think if the owner had started meddling that much prior to now we'd have heard something.

But then again you'd think we would have heard rumblings about dissatisfaction with JD and Gorts before a firing that seemingly came out of nowhere.

Gotta credit Dolan here, if his dissatisfaction with bad contracts, buyouts and dysfunction has been growing for more than just one season then he kept it VERY quiet

 

[Edge]

So basically Fredo was ok with the direction of the team he just threw a hissy fit because JD and Gorton didn't back the letter? Is this where all this is headed?

I think there was impatience growing. I think Dolan probably didn't like the visual of guys getting pushed around lately to the Islanders. I think he's a fairly emotional personality and between the games and the letter he sent to the league, he was on the war path. And anyone who wasn't all-in on his approach was going to get the emotional reaction.

As crazy of a picture it paints, there are some personalities that are that over the top Look, we see it on here all the time. Now give that same personality decision making power and more money than some small countries and you've got an interesting work environment.

 

[Kodiak]

The underachieving is clearly the cover. Because the coach is still here and someone who was joined at the hip with JD and Gorton is still here.

Let's be clear, it's Dolan's team so he's gonna do what he wants. But that doesn't necessarily translate into the best statement.

You have to wonder if we are ever going to get the real story of why this went down the way it went down.

 

[DutchShamrock]

?

I replied to a specific post. I wasn't just yelling at clouds. Maybe that poster is blocked for you and you missed the context.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Drury is going to turn this ship 360 degrees!

At some point a 360 degree turn will at least look like a 180! Brilliant!

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I think there was impatience growing. I think Dolan probably didn't like the visual of guys getting pushed around lately to the Islanders. I think he's a fairly emotional personality and between the games and the letter he sent to the league, he was on the war path. And anyone who wasn't all-in on his approach was going to get the emotional reaction.

As crazy of a picture it paints, there are some personalities that are that over the top Look, we see it on here all the time. Now give that same personality decision making power and more money than some small countries and you've got an interesting work environment.

I'm just looking for some reassurance that this idiot isn't going to blow the whole thing up or do something dramatically stupid.

 

[Edge]

To me next year was the come to jesus PO or fired season. So I disagree vehemently with Dolan doing this when he did.

I say that even though I feel like we only got as far down the right path as we have because of unreal luck (and not nearly enough bc of GM skill)

In some ways the GM has actually taken us a half a step BACK from where we should be along that path (Thanks to BAD contracts that seem like they're guaranteed to cost us significantly)

Although you gotta wonder, does a stupid move like the CK contract really come from JD and Gorts? Was it a Dolan mandate not to lose a guy like CK? Pay him whatever he wants! Bc Dolan heard from someone on twitter that we lose too many heart and soul NYRs? idk. I'd like to think if the owner had started meddling that much prior to now we'd have heard something.

But then again you'd think we would have heard rumblings about dissatisfaction with JD and Gorts before a firing that seemingly came out of nowhere.

Gotta credit Dolan here, if his disatisfaction with bad contracts, buyouts and dysfunction has been growing for more than just one season then he kept it VERY quiet

We keep saying luck and I don't get that. Fine, take Kakko and Lafreniere off the table. You put Zegras and Lundell in their place. You still have to trade for Fox, you still have to draft Miller, Lundkvist, etc. You still have trade for Lindgren, and Strome, and Zibanejad, etc. You still have to find Jones, Robertson, have the balls to take Schneider, hang onto Buch, etc.

I feel like some of this is our way of mentally trying to justify something that really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. We see this shit all the time. Hell we saw it with the same contracts we're now bitching about. How many people talked themselves into them? I watched those votes go down, I watched people talk themselves into them leading up to decision day. We went from like 55-45 against, to 50-50, to people favoring it.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

come on, I heard it but I never liked it because it is not true:

It's not true ever?

 

[JCProdigy]

Hey if they fail to win the SC at least we know it won't ruin his weekend.

Even if we take out the Dolan is a psychopath narrative, his approach is a proven failure for the teams he's been more actively involved in. There is no track record of success. In fact, there's some abysmal failures. So yeah, he doesn't have the benefit of the doubt coming into this situation.

As for JD and Gorton, I don't think the question is whether or not they were perfect. The question was whether or not they were executing their plan --- and to that extent they were getting high marks from both fans and those around the sport.

I also don't think they were incredibly far off from taking advantage of those prime years you're talking about. I disagree with recent moves having us sideways as well. Look no further than this recent stretch without Trouba to get a glimpse of how things would've looked without him over a longer stretch. If anything, I think in some ways the moves almost made us too good and pushed us into the realm of people expecting the playoffs this season. So in that sense, I think they actually become a bit of a double-edged sword.

At the end of the day, I think there was significantly more good than bad, with even better days to come. I think we can look at most anyone in any position and find enough to fire them. That's not really hard to do. But I honestly think this wasn't a hockey decision, this was a Jim Dolan thing. And it's his toy chest and his toys, so here we are.

I'm sorry that I have but only one like to give for this post.

BTW after Carolina bottomed out it took them three subsequent seasons of middling play before they made the playoffs and became the team they are now. The Avalanche? After drafting MacKinnon, they immediately had a successful 112pt season but then regressed and went three more seasons before seeing the playoffs again. TB after drafting Stamkos and Hedman? Missed the playoffs in the following 3 out of next 4 years.

 

[Edge]

I'm just looking for some reassurance that this idiot isn't going to blow the whole thing up or do something dramatically stupid.

That all depends on how involved he is. If he backs off, and Sather is the bugger, the odds are better.

If he wants to be involve and is pushing, things get complicated.

We've seen what happens with the former, and we've seen what happens with the latter. And right now it's hard to predict which path he's going to go down, because his personality can be hard to predict.