Proposal: NYR-BUF

[Big Empty]

Strome, Kakko, and Chytil for Eichel?

That’s awful for Buffalo.

4 point Kakko, Ryan Panarin, and Chytil.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

the problem is, with Eichel @ 10 million that means Zib probably can't be re-signed, and with Chytil and Strome going the other way, that opens a huge hole at C behind Eichel and we're in an even worse situation going forward. Unlike other Rangers fans though, I am comfortable with including Kakko in a package for Eichel.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Strome, Kakko, and Chytil for Eichel?

That’s awful for Buffalo.

4 point Kakko, Ryan Panarin, and Chytil.

What better package would they be getting? How is it awful? The O'Reilly return, that was awful. This blows that out of the water (rightly so). What you think they should be getting Fox, Zib, a 1st and Shesterkin or something? Eichel isn't McDavid.

Strome is not superstar but he really started picking up his game once Panarin is was on his LOA. And Kakko has 6 points, tyvm

 

[TBF1972]

What better package would they be getting? How is it awful? The O'Reilly return, that was awful. This blows that out of the water (rightly so)

Strome is not superstar but he really started picking up his game once Panarin is was on his LOA. And Kakko has 6 points, tyvm

if this is the best return offered for eichel, buffalo should keep eichel. he is nowhere close to fa.

 

[Boondock]

short of the Lindros deal, almost 30 years back, no team ever gets "as much of a return as he should" - look at Thornton deal, Seguin deal, Nash deal, etc

the online insistence that NYR must yield Laf, Kakko, Fox, Shesty, even Miller, is just internet jabber, not based on precedent, does not reflect what might likely happen

but this NYR fan will be fine, if they dodge this Eichel bullet,
they will find a top 2 C without surrendering ~4 high-value assets

Provide precedence for trades of under 25 year old ppg #1C's in the past 4-5 years.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

if this is the best return offered for eichel, buffalo should keep eichel. he is nowhere close to fa.

his fa status has nothing to do with anything. If he requests a trade (not saying he 100% will), they will have to trade him.

 

[EK392000]

Strome, Kakko, and Chytil for Eichel?

That’s awful for Buffalo.

4 point Kakko, Ryan Panarin, and Chytil.

I initially included Kravstov as well but Rangers fans claimed it was too much. After looking at his stats and progression, I definitely should have kept him in there.

 

[Boondock]

The thing is.. as a Rangers fan, losing Buchnevich, Chytil, Lundkvist, and our 2021 1st rounder would hurt real bad.

Buchnevich is scoring on a similar pace to Eichel and for most of the year he's been stapled to a zombie version of Zibanejad. He's driving the play on that line and playing much better hockey than last year, when he scored at a 20-35-55 pace. He's going to be a 60-70 point player in this league for the foreseeable future and he's still an RFA after this year. PLUS, he kills penalties and is a huge reason why the Rangers PK is 4th best in the league to this point.

Chytil is already showing this year that he can be a 50-60 point center in this league. His upside is even higher than that. He is not going to replace Eichel as a top-10 center in the league, but he is turning into a monster. If he hits his upside, he'll be a fan favorite. He's only 21 and he's shown dramatic improvement in each season so far.

Lundkvist is one of the top prospects in the world outside of the NHL. He shattered the record for a U-20 defenseman in the SHL. The thought of pairing him and Dahlin should be enough to make any hockey fan extremely excited.

Our 1st overall pick this year will almost definitely be a lottery pick. It could be someone who is a real key piece on your team who is on an ELC at the same time the rest of your core (Dahlin, Cozens, Mittlestadt) are beginning to compete for the playoffs. And plus, it's a Rangers first rounder so it just might have some lottery magic attached to it

And I totally get that Sabres fans could make a similar post about Eichel and how painful it would be to lose him. But those would be 4 excellent depth pieces to add to your core. Kakko and Laf obviously have amazing potential but it's not even a guarantee that they'll ever reach the level that Buch and Chytil are playing at right now.

I know people don't watch all of our games and prospects, so I just wanted to summarize a bit here for people who might not know these guys as well. I'm not saying that this is 100% a fair deal for Eichel and I'm NOT saying that it should be easy for Sabres fans to accept it, but I'm just surprised how quickly it gets turned down without consideration from Sabres fans.

This is the thing about prospects - you can point out all their positives and say "they could become" or "have the potential to be" but the truth of the matter is that more prospects fall short of expectations than meet or exceed them. I like Buch but to point out this seasons point totals and to compare them to Eichel is disingenuous. Eichel has produced at a far greater rate than Buch over the past 4-5 seasons. Ignoring those years and highlighting Buch's single best 30 game stretch isn't an accurate picture.

 

[EK392000]

the problem is, with Eichel @ 10 million that means Zib probably can't be re-signed, and with Chytil and Strome going the other way, that opens a huge hole at C behind Eichel and we're in an even worse situation going forward. Unlike other Rangers fans though, I am comfortable with including Kakko in a package for Eichel.

I thought about how much more effective Strome is with Panarin and figured Rangers would like to keep him as a budget 2C. You wouldn’t need Zib if you had Eichel and Strome, so you could flip him for some defensive help.

 

[Boondock]

So to be clear, when highly drafted prospects who have been thriving are offered for Eichel, that's the Rangers offering "trash." But for Dahlin, who has been spinning his wheels for three seasons now, a Hart finalist has to be the basis of the potential deal? Also, Panarin has three seasons (his three most recent seasons) where he out-produces Eichel's career year.

Clearly, Buffalo needs to just hold on to their players, since all of them are just so gosh-dang awesome that they'll surely be hoisting Lord Stanley in a year or two.

It's fine for Buffalo fans to want an obscene return for Eichel, but if they get it, it had better not be from the Rangers. You don't improve your team by decimating your roster for one guy who has done nothing but lose in his career.

Ignorance is noted - can we move on now that everyone knows youre an ass?
Eichel and Dahlin are not the problem in Buffalo, if you need that explained to you then re-read my first sentence. You have NYR fans saying Strome and Buch are the pieces in an Eichel deal but you clap back when 1 person states Panarin would be the ask for Eichel - re-read my first sentence.

 

[2 others]

Eichel has produced at a far greater rate than Buch over the past 4-5 seasons.

The fact that you even had to mention Eichel and Buch in one sentence, let alone compare them, shows how far off this thread has drifted away.

Recently there was this headline: "Confused Arctic walrus is spotted in IRELAND for the first time in 17 years after 'falling asleep on an iceberg and drifting across the Atlantic ocean'"

How about: Confused NYR fanboys are spotted on HFBOARDS for the first time in 17 years after 'falling asleep on their keyboards and drifting across their own wretched imagination'"

 

[cwede]

Provide precedence for trades of under 25 year old ppg #1C's in the past 4-5 years.

that's not on me

my 2 points were accurate,
- teams never get back for a high potential asset what they 'should'
- there has not been a deal featuring the equivalent of 5-6 1st rd pieces for 1 guy since Lindros.
NHL is not the NBA, teams do not gut chunks of their roster or pipeline for 1 guy

I will gladly adapt my perspective if/when such a deal occurs

anyway, if that is the price, i am fine with NYR passing

agreed Eichel is a very unique situation,
and Buff deserves a huge return
i just think, my personal opinion based on too many years as an NHL fan,
that the massive trade proposals, seen posted here or by online pundits, are not gonna be how it plays out

More likely something like (ballpark estimates, don't quote me, but i know someone will):
a very good, very young, NHL-proven star or emerging star forward
another very good, very young, NHL-tested skater
a proven skater or goalie
a high-end prospect or 2
and a high pick or 2

no matter the return it won't make Buffalo whole, it can't make Buffalo whole,
that's just how these bad situations work

as NHL fan, i'd rather see Eichel stick it out with Buffalo thru the lean years,into contention years,
same as guys like Clarke and Trottier did , Yzerman and Sakic did, Sid and Kopitar and Ovi did,
same a McDavid is

 

[Boondock]

that's not on me

my 2 points were accurate,
- teams never get back for a high potential asset what they 'should'
- there has not been a deal featuring the equivalent of 5-6 1st rd pieces for 1 guy since Lindros.
NHL is not the NBA, teams do not gut chunks of their roster or pipeline for 1 guy

I will gladly adapt my perspective if/when such a deal occurs

anyway, if that is the price, i am fine with NYR passing

agreed Eichel is a very unique situation,
and Buff deserves a huge return
i just think, my personal opinion based on too many years as an NHL fan,
that the massive trade proposals, seen posted here or by online pundits, are not gonna be how it plays out

More likely something like (ballpark estimates, don't quote me, but i know someone will):
a very good, very young, NHL-proven star or emerging star forward
another very good, very young, NHL-tested skater
a proven skater or goalie
a high-end prospect or 2
and a high pick or 2

no matter the return it won't make Buffalo whole, it can't make Buffalo whole,
that's just how these bad situations work

as NHL fan, i'd rather see Eichel stick it out with Buffalo thru the lean years,into contention years,
same as guys like Clarke and Trottier did , Yzerman and Sakic did, Sid and Kopitar and Ovi did,
same a McDavid is

Your explanation of what the Sabres could get back is the exact thing Sabres fans have proposed and they have been brutalized for it by Rags fans. I agree with your assessment completely and agree with the cost. I'm not one of the people advocating for Laf, Kakko +, but to read multiple posters state that Chytil and his 0.3pts/gm NHL career stats is off the table seems to under value the other teams assets.

 

[tsujimoto74]

his fa status has nothing to do with anything. If he requests a trade (not saying he 100% will), they will have to trade him.

Even if that day comes, unless Eichel's ready to sit out, we don't have to do anything. Why are we f***ing over our entire franchise to placate 1 player? Because you're manifesting it? Sorry, but that's not how real life works.

 

[Bluto]

You misread the first question; it was an either/or "would you rather have Fox, or all three of Kakko/Chytil/Strome"

And the 2nd question was not "what would you expect?" it was "what would it take?" You don't have to trade him.

It is interesting that you think a 24-year-old franchise centre on a long-term contract has similar value as a 29-year-old shutdown defenceman 16-months away from free agency.

Let's call a spade a spade. Eichel has never been to the playoffs. He's never lead a team to a winning season. Sabres fans are painting Eichel in the light of McDavid and Matthews, yet Eichel's stats have never translated to the only stat that matters: W's. In fact, since drafting Eichel, Buffalo has drafted in the top 10 every single season meaning that every year Eichel has been in the league, he hasn't been able to at least push his team to near relevancy. A superstar like McDavid, Lundqvist, Crosby, and Ovechkin can do that. They can put bad teams on their backs and at least make them competitive. Eichel has a history of losing. Eichel also wears the 'C', which means he can't be exempted as 'not part of the problem' either.
McDavid has led a really bad and horribly mismanaged team in Edmonton team to the playoffs twice. He's even gotten past the first round. Matthews has never missed the playoffs. By this point in his career, Crosby had been to 2 cup finals. Without Lundqvist, I don't know if the Rangers ever make it out of the first round.
Eichel's value is the same as McDonagh's. He has an albatross contract, Has an injury history, and is an 80 point player. He's not going to return 4 first round picks. He's a career loser like Rick Nash or Phil Kessel.
Unless Eichel forces a trade, Buffalo will keep him. If Eichel forces a trade, his value is pretty much dictated by the team he wants to go to.
How does Eichel push NYR over the top when he'd be going to a team that has a similar situation as Buffalo? It doesn't. It sets NYR back and causes a serious cap problem. It's just another case of the Rangers overpaying for a fringe star player that can't win in their current situation.
The fact of the matter is that Eichel is Robin, not Batman. And the fact that Buffalo is shopping him tells me that management knows that Eichel is Robin and want to trade him before everyone else figures it out too.
I view Eichel in the same light as I view Tavares or Kessel; a good individual guy who goes to a winner, but can't create a winner. And NYI without Tavares is much better than NYI with Tavares. TOR without Kessel is better than TOR with Kessel.
NYR needs a Batman, not a Robin, and I don't want to pay the Batman price for Robin.
Eichel needs to go to a team like Pittsburgh or Boston or Vancouver where he can be a Robin and wear the "A" or no letter at all.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Even if that day comes, unless Eichel's ready to sit out, we don't have to do anything. Why are we f***ing over our entire franchise to placate 1 player? Because you're manifesting it? Sorry, but that's not how real life works.

no, in real life, teams don't hold players hostage, its more damaging to the team to have this guy there if he's demanding out. These guys always, eventually, get their way. Contracts be damned. Again, i'm not saying Eichel is definitely going to demand a trade. But we've seen these situations time and again in all sports and that includes the NHL.

 

[smoneil]

Ignorance is noted - can we move on now that everyone knows youre an ass?
Eichel and Dahlin are not the problem in Buffalo, if you need that explained to you then re-read my first sentence. You have NYR fans saying Strome and Buch are the pieces in an Eichel deal but you clap back when 1 person states Panarin would be the ask for Eichel - re-read my first sentence.

I believe that counts as "making an excuse for why Eichel's production doesn't match his reputation." That's one drink in the Eichel trade thread drinking game.

You want to call me ignorant and an ass? Go right ahead. That's what people do when their argument can't be supported without looking at the numbers cross-eyed. Incidentally, did you know that three of Panarin's five seasons match or exceed Eichel's career high in points, right? And that Strome has 85 points in his last 101 games? And that Buch, a 25 year old winger who also dominates on the PK, has 75 points in his last 98 games, including a ppg this season? I clap back because Buffalo fans want to value Eichel based on what they believe he should be rather than by what he actually is. I clap back because I don't want the Rangers to buy into the Eichel hype only to be left holding the money bag while he finishes outside of the top 30-50 in league scoring almost every year. I clap back because I'm tired of seeing a team that has spent the last what, decade?, smarming to other fanbases about how dominant and valuable their young players are, only to finish bottom of the league over and over and over again.

Great--Eichel isn't the problem in Buffalo. He sure as hell isn't the solution. How do I know? Because you need total team buy in to finish bottom three league wide. The Rangers have been god-awful plenty of years. Since the expansion from six teams, they still have never finished bottom five in the league. Buffalo gets their mail in the bottom five. I don't want the Rangers giving up major assets for "not a problem." If the team is going to pay that much, I want a damned solution. Eichel, to this point in his career, has demonstrated that he isn't one.

 

[Boondock]

Go right ahead. That's what people do when their argument can't be supported without looking at the numbers cross-eyed. Incidentally, did you know that three of Panarin's five seasons match or exceed Eichel's career high in points, right? And that Strome has 85 points in his last 101 games? And that Buch, a 25 year old winger who also dominates on the PK, has 75 points in his last 98 games, including a ppg this season?

Seems like you're looking at the numbers cross-eyed.

 

[smoneil]

Seems like you're looking at the numbers cross-eyed.

By giving you the stats from the last two seasons? Then what do you call Buffalo fans who insist on valuing Eichel based on PPG but only in seasons where the coach was competent, he had a pair of wingers, the owners weren't drunk and you only count games where he scored more than one point? It's hyperbole, but the bottom line is that--whether it's injury or whatever--Eichel has only been a top 10 scorer ONCE, and it was as a tie for the 10th spot. He had one other season in the high 20s, and his other seasons were in the 50s or later. When you're always out with an injury, it doesn't matter how good you're supposed to be. When you seem to give up in the last two months of every season, it doesn't matter how good you're supposed to be. When it's always someone else's fault that a player and a captain can't break through to the levels of McDavid or Matthews, it doesn't matter how good you're supposed to be. And when a "superstar" can't even drag his team into the playoff bubble, it doesn't matter how good you're supposed to be.

Wait--I have one more:

When all of those things are true, and you've given that player a massive contract and sit down at a table to trade him...you don't get a return based on what the player is supposed to be. If Eichel were half as good as the Buffalo fans in these threads think he is, the Sabres would have been relevant at some point in the last decade.

 

[Kuznetsnow]

People are overestimating Eichel significantly. He has yearly major injury problems, no two way game, probably not a cancer but clearly doesn't bring a team together with leadership. Whoever gets him will probably need to put work into everything from keeping him on the ice to making him play and carry himself like a winner. You'd think people would learn from Duchene's fall from grace as hf's darling but no.

Boston would be the perfect destination for him, they have one of the best leadership groups in the NHL and there's no better high end two way players to mentor him anywhere else. New York under Quinn has been very ass in that regard

 

[DJN21]

Let's call a spade a spade. Eichel has never been to the playoffs. He's never lead a team to a winning season. Sabres fans are painting Eichel in the light of McDavid and Matthews, yet Eichel's stats have never translated to the only stat that matters: W's. In fact, since drafting Eichel, Buffalo has drafted in the top 10 every single season meaning that every year Eichel has been in the league, he hasn't been able to at least push his team to near relevancy. A superstar like McDavid, Lundqvist, Crosby, and Ovechkin can do that. They can put bad teams on their backs and at least make them competitive. Eichel has a history of losing. Eichel also wears the 'C', which means he can't be exempted as 'not part of the problem' either.
McDavid has led a really bad and horribly mismanaged team in Edmonton team to the playoffs twice. He's even gotten past the first round. Matthews has never missed the playoffs. By this point in his career, Crosby had been to 2 cup finals. Without Lundqvist, I don't know if the Rangers ever make it out of the first round.
Eichel's value is the same as McDonagh's. He has an albatross contract, Has an injury history, and is an 80 point player. He's not going to return 4 first round picks. He's a career loser like Rick Nash or Phil Kessel.
Unless Eichel forces a trade, Buffalo will keep him. If Eichel forces a trade, his value is pretty much dictated by the team he wants to go to.
How does Eichel push NYR over the top when he'd be going to a team that has a similar situation as Buffalo? It doesn't. It sets NYR back and causes a serious cap problem. It's just another case of the Rangers overpaying for a fringe star player that can't win in their current situation.
The fact of the matter is that Eichel is Robin, not Batman. And the fact that Buffalo is shopping him tells me that management knows that Eichel is Robin and want to trade him before everyone else figures it out too.
I view Eichel in the same light as I view Tavares or Kessel; a good individual guy who goes to a winner, but can't create a winner. And NYI without Tavares is much better than NYI with Tavares. TOR without Kessel is better than TOR with Kessel.
NYR needs a Batman, not a Robin, and I don't want to pay the Batman price for Robin.
Eichel needs to go to a team like Pittsburgh or Boston or Vancouver where he can be a Robin and wear the "A" or no letter at all.

Eichel doesn't have a Drais (and no one in their right mind has ever compared Eichel to McDavid the difference is clear you're trying to debate apples and oranges. Of course McDavid can do more with less...in other news water is wet)
Eichel doesn't have a Marner or Tavares
Hockey is a team game and Buffalo doesn't/hasn't had the rosters that McDavid or Matthews have. If eichel had a "Robin" like your two examples do then maybe we'd be having a different convo. Blame Buffalo's garbage drafting and idiotic trade of ROR not Eichel.

Your bias is showing. Those are a lot of words with zero factual/statistical info you're clearly just ranting and don't like Eichel which is fine. To each their own.

 

[Bluto]

Eichel doesn't have a Drais (and no one in their right mind has ever compared Eichel to McDavid the difference is clear you're trying to debate apples and oranges. Of course McDavid can do more with less...in other news water is wet)
Eichel doesn't have a Marner or Tavares
Hockey is a team game and Buffalo doesn't/hasn't had the rosters that McDavid or Matthews have. If eichel had a "Robin" like your two examples do then maybe we'd be having a different convo. Blame Buffalo's garbage drafting and idiotic trade of ROR not Eichel.

Your bias is showing. Those are a lot of words with zero factual/statistical info you're clearly just ranting and don't like Eichel which is fine. To each their own.

I backed up my words with the wins stat. The only one that matter. Eichel couldn't win with ROR. Eichel is a loser. Clearly the Buffalo school system didn't teach you how to read and you're just defensive because Buffalo sucks and one of the better players to put on a Sabres sweater isn't as good as you wish he was.

It's fine. I hope NYR doesn't trade for him. If they do, whatever, I'll still watch the games. Doesn't change the fact that Eichel is a loser and Buffalo sucks lol.

 

[DJN21]

I backed up my words with the wins stat. The only one that matter. Eichel couldn't win with ROR. Eichel is a loser. Clearly the Buffalo school system didn't teach you how to read and you're just defensive because Buffalo sucks and one of the better players to put on a Sabres sweater isn't as good as you wish he was.

It's fine. I hope NYR doesn't trade for him. If they do, whatever, I'll still watch the games. Doesn't change the fact that Eichel is a loser and Buffalo sucks lol.

I don't currently nor have ever lived in Buffalo. My location is clearly stated in my profile. Perhaps it isn't my schooling that is faulted considering you clearly can't read...

anywho.

 

[sabremike]

I believe that counts as "making an excuse for why Eichel's production doesn't match his reputation." That's one drink in the Eichel trade thread drinking game.

You want to call me ignorant and an ass? Go right ahead. That's what people do when their argument can't be supported without looking at the numbers cross-eyed. Incidentally, did you know that three of Panarin's five seasons match or exceed Eichel's career high in points, right? And that Strome has 85 points in his last 101 games? And that Buch, a 25 year old winger who also dominates on the PK, has 75 points in his last 98 games, including a ppg this season? I clap back because Buffalo fans want to value Eichel based on what they believe he should be rather than by what he actually is. I clap back because I don't want the Rangers to buy into the Eichel hype only to be left holding the money bag while he finishes outside of the top 30-50 in league scoring almost every year. I clap back because I'm tired of seeing a team that has spent the last what, decade?, smarming to other fanbases about how dominant and valuable their young players are, only to finish bottom of the league over and over and over again.

Great--Eichel isn't the problem in Buffalo. He sure as hell isn't the solution. How do I know? Because you need total team buy in to finish bottom three league wide. The Rangers have been god-awful plenty of years. Since the expansion from six teams, they still have never finished bottom five in the league. Buffalo gets their mail in the bottom five. I don't want the Rangers giving up major assets for "not a problem." If the team is going to pay that much, I want a damned solution. Eichel, to this point in his career, has demonstrated that he isn't one.

In the first 40 years of our existence the Sabres had either the 3rd or 4th best franchise record in NHL history.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

In the first 40 years of our existence the Sabres had either the 3rd or 4th best franchise record in NHL history.

That means nothing to the Ranger crowd. The Yankees minus all the championships.