Proposal: NYR-BUF
- Thread starter EK392000
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N.Y. Orangeman
Registered User
Point taken. So if the issue is taking roster players, would taking players not on the roster make the trade more enticing? I’m not a fan of the sabres but I imagine they’d want Chytil if they’re going to embrace the rebuild, so how about Chytil, Kravstov Lundkvist and any bad contract you want to send back? Does this get the conversation started? Is it still too much from the Rangers?
EDIT: There probably is some concern from Rangers fans that they're going to end up with a stacked forward corps and not enough money to allocate to other positions. This situation is avoidable if Strome becomes 2C because he is cheaper and has found success with Panarin. Eichel will have Kreider, Panarin will have strome and it doesn't even matter who the other wingers are, it's still a formidable top 6. This allows Zib (with extension) to be traded for some help on D. You'd still have enough cap space to sign Igor, given the current rate at which goalies sign for.
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Rangers are not sending bluest blue chip elcs for anyone, period.
Zib is available.
Chytil is not.
Buch + Strome are available due to Kravtsov + Barron
that is the core of what we would send.
could possibly juggle bad retained Skinner contract to NYR
help you out w/Huska for expiring Hutton
that is about it.
If that doesn't work, NYR will sell those assets a la carte
- Oct 23, 2014
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1st, Chytil, Buch and maybe someone like Lundkvist is the most Id offer for Eichel, and I’m still not sure I’d pull the trigger.
Easy no if it’s Chytil and Kakko, not worth it at that point
Easy no if it’s Chytil and Kakko, not worth it at that point
This is fantasy. His 2020-21 bonus is paid. He has zero bonus in 2021-22 due. It's all salary. Next major bonus is July 1, 2022.
easy no imo
Chytil, Nils L not on the table, also KK.
some variation of Buch, Strome + zib
we are not moving bluest blue chip elcs
Yet you expect them to move Dahlin.
Djp
Registered User
N.Y. Orangeman
Registered User
He has literally said the same thing over and over, like he is wishing for it to be true.
smoneil
Registered User
I get why those pieces don't work for Buffalo due to situation, but let's cut the hyperbole. None of those players are "crap." You're talking about a #1 center with back to back 74/75 point seasons (only a couple points behind Eichel, and Zib is better defensively). You're talking about a 25 year old winger who would currently be your leading scorer and would have been your 3rd leading scorer last season. You're talking about a 28 year old center who put up 59 points last season, and is on close to the same pace this season, despite not having Panarin on his wing for much of it. Do they fit a rebuilding team due to their ages? Aside from Buchnevich, no. But these players are not crap.
I’ve amended the proposal but after seeing what Rangers fans have said, it’s hopeless. A lot of “give me your best player and take this bargain package in return”.
explore
I was wrong about Don Granato and TNT
- Jun 28, 2011
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You're core deal is built around:
- a center enduring an epic down year and is two years from becoming a UFA
- a 25-year-old winger with a career high of 48 points
Gee, I wonder why Sabres fans aren't at all interested in these super-valuable players in exchange for the team's franchise center
smoneil
Registered User
Re-read the first sentence of my post that you quoted. I get why these players wouldn't be appealing for a team looking to rebuild. I don't even WANT the Rangers to trade for Eichel. My point was solely that calling those three players "crap" is ridiculous. That "25 year old winger" would be your leading scorer right now (even over Eichel). If we assign value to Zibanejad based solely on this season, then should I assume that Eichel's value is that of your average 3 goal scorer? Of course not. It's absurd. Half the league is having a down year this season because of Covid-related issues.
TL/DR-- My point isn't that you should accept Bern's trade. My point is that it's possible to turn down a trade without the hyperbolic "all your players are crap and aren't fit to sharpen our skates" mentality.
explore
I was wrong about Don Granato and TNT
- Jun 28, 2011
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Wow, he'd be the "leading scorer" on a team where Eichel, Hall, and Skinner are shooting 2-3% on the year. Very impressive
The problem is no matter how many times Sabres fans turn down these offers, another Rags fan pops up and repeats it verbatim or somehow produces an even worse offer. People are rightfully fed up with Rags homers
smoneil
Registered User
I get that to a certain extent. A much smaller scale version of that happened after the Rangers won the draft lottery (where fans of other teams thought we should trade the 1st overall for peanuts because it's not like we expected to get it in the first place). And there are some posters on here that are relentless in that way. But it's pretty clear which two or three posters from each fan base drive that kind of narrative. Rather than respond with hyperbole that will INEVITABLY make a team's more reasonable fans defensive, why not just put the guys who annoy you on ignore?
These threads have gone on as long as they have and have gotten as toxic as they have for two reasons:
1- A few Rangers fans want to insist that Eichel can be had for scraps.
2- A few Buffalo fans respond by shitting on every player on the Rangers roster.
The first group makes the entire Rangers fan base look entitled.
The second group makes the entire Buffalo fan base look clueless.
Eichel isn't on the discount rack. The Rangers players--even if Buffalo wouldn't want to trade Eichel for them--aren't crap. Those two things can BOTH be true.
ElLeetch
Registered User
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Crosby had seasons of 102, 120, 72, 103, and 109 before that. The seasons i posted for Eichel were ALL of his seasons, not just his worse ones. but you knew that, didn't you?
explore
I was wrong about Don Granato and TNT
- Jun 28, 2011
- 3,752
- 3,434
Here's what you're missing:
The Sabres fanbase as a whole rejects every one of your proposals, and yet the Rags fanbase repeatedly makes these threads asking for input and gets the same answer because they ultimately make the same offer over, and over, and over again and ignore the Sabres fan base
In response, why not keep your Eichel threads to your own board seeing as how no rational Sabres fan is going to agree to any of these ridiculous offers?
The Sabres fanbase as a whole doesn't care if someone said your offer of Zib/Buch/blah/who cares is trash, because the offer at its core isn't remotely close to being worth trading Eichel for.
No amount of dressing up the Rags version Ryder/Halak/2nd is going to make it appealing, and until that's understood Sabres posters are going to respond to these offers with rightful frustration until people figure out that they aren't interested
smoneil
Registered User
On the contrary. A package of Zibanejad, Buchnevich, and Strome is, in a vacuum, worth more than Eichel by a considerable margin. It's trading a 1st line center, a high end 2nd line wing, and a 2nd line center for a slightly better first line center. It's not worth more to Buffalo because Buffalo is looking to re-build. You have an outsized notion of how valuable your "franchise" center is. He's the best player Buffalo has seen in a long time, but frankly, that isn't saying much over the last 20 years. Eichel is currently tied for 81st in scoring. For his career, he's finished: Tied for 10th, tied for 23rd, tied for 52nd, tied for 53rd, and tied for 58th. In his five complete NHL seasons, he BARELY cracked the top ten in scoring once. Other than that year, he's been a top 25-50-ish player. That's still very good, but not "give us your top 4 assets" good. Not even close.
Jack Eichel is an excellent hockey player, and some of those finishes were due to missing some games. But what matters is results, and Eichel's production doesn't place him in that tier where he's worth multiple high end pieces and 10 million dollars. You think he is worth that much because you value his reputation. Where you read the headline, I'm reading the story. I mentioned before that I didn't even want the Rangers to trade for Eichel. It's not JUST because his production doesn't match his contract/rep. Here's the reason: He's too comfortable with losing. He's six years into his NHL career and he's never experienced a winning season or a playoff game. In his last three seasons, his production falls off a cliff in the final two months of the season. He's a player who was developed in a losing culture and that's a stink that often can't be washed away. I don't want a player who gives up on the team--a team for whom he wears a C--with two months left to go. Team culture matters.
tsujimoto74
Moderator
- May 28, 2012
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Yes, that's why it was an apt response to your post. It matches the quality.
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bold is false, see below + my comments
The underline assumes Eichel in Buffalo cannot be saved by my premise which was dealing Dahlin for substantial help w/mid 20s F help [Buch + Strome] + one older 20s guy Zib. Those 3 are enough to give Sabes a robust F corps. Still have probs, but that consolidates the problems to LD [expecting emerging RD to arrive soon] and backup G.
I get BUF may want to talk to Zib first about extension, and that's not a prob. Zib has to decide even covid notwithstanding, hard cap league is leaving less and less openings for big long term $. He has to decide if he still wants to chase that, or do something like 6.75-7.25 for medium term or less. Rangers can't afford him w/Trouba and shouldn't be buyers, $ aside, for anything beyond 3 yr term.
The other thing I object to is aside from excessive discounting of Zib, Buch + Strome b'c they are not shiny enough baubles for some, there were other signif aspects to this prop being ignored,
I specifically said we would take on Skinner reduced to 6.5. That is humongous.
I also said we'd take Hutton now and throw in Huska as a sweetener.
So if you want your cake and eat it too, fine, roll the dice and see if Eich stays if there is more of the same w/out dramatic impact showing improvement.
We don't expect the Kings to move Byfield.
MAYBE Ducks put enuf on the table for JE [Zegras +]; maybe they are thin on rebuild they can't afford to do that.
If you get a better deal fine.
If not fine.
But NY is not paying in the currency of bluest blue chip elcs.
For JE or anyone else.
That we need to manage our own cap going forward.
smoneil
Registered User
Bern, I got as far as your mention of Dahlin. Again--Buffalo is nowhere near competing. They need more than some top 6 forwards. They have issues on D, issues in goal, issues with ownership, and frankly, issues with team culture. They need to bring in some heart and soul guys and then cut bait on any players who are content to collect a paycheck and call it a day. Until their ownership realizes that, they will continue to be a place where talent goes to die (much like the Rangers in the early aughts).
One of the ONLY players they are pretty much GUARANTEED to hold on to is their 1st overall 20 year old defenseman. They aren't even picking up the phone on him. And frankly, he's another one where I would hope the Rangers aren't calling. Defense is not a real concern on the Rangers right now or in the future. The right side is already locked down for years with Trouba, Fox, Lundkvist, and Schneider. The left side had Miller, Lindgren, and plenty of young options coming up through the system (and I remember reading somewhere that Lundkvist can actually play both sides equally well, so that might solve that problem as soon as next year).
You get these fixations around certain players (usually prospect defensemen) and get so enamored with them that you make proposals that don't make sense and don't fit the needs of EITHER team.
No Dahlin. No Eichel. Keep building through the stockpile of assets, and only make trades to fill a gap in that stockpile (like the discussions in the Colorado thread).
sabremike
#1 Tageaholic
Narrative bullshit like this led to us making one of the most stupid and catastrophic trades in living memory. The "culture change" that's needed is firing Dollar General Tony Robbins straight into the sun and hiring an honest to God professional quality coach who knows his ass from a hole in the ground.
