Confirmed with Link: Nylander signs extension of 8 years - 11.5M AAV

[Mess]

What if Tre isn’t interested in Marner ?

I think Marner could be hard balled.

If Marner is re-signed then it’s clear the team doesn’t want to win, and is happy just overpaying their forwards.

As a spots fan I follow my favourite teams in hopes that they lead to championships seasons.

However now with the Leafs I have resolved myself to the idea that since the Leafs are owned by Maple Leafs Sports & Entertainment, with the emphasis on the last part, that Toronto is more focused on the entertainment part then building a winning Cup team.

If you want to entertain the fans then you need star players to attract interest and following, and when you charge the highest ticket prices in the NHL then you need those same star players to extract fans hard earned money to put Butts in seats and validate ticket costs to admission. So their definition of successful plan seems to working.

So I no longer take the Leafs too seriously in hopes of Cups but rather accept the fact that their objective and mine no longer align. In a Salary Cap World where you pay your players among the highest in the NHL comes at a steep cost to Cup competitiveness, when winning it all is not the highest priority but just a secondary benefit should it occur against all odds. .

In regards to Marner who is a local Canadian kid, Ontario born so he of all the 3 Amigos is the least likely one traded and serves the cause of MLSE the greatest as a local hero in this market.

 

[ToNedOuT]

As a Habs fan, I think this was a good signing. The biased hate the habs and leafs fan bases get on this site drives me crazy. Most of the dumdums on the trade board making fun of the deal would gladly take WN on their team at this price.

 

[Sypher04]

So, I just saw Button commenting on the signing, he said after what’s paid to 34, 16, 88, 91, and 44 there will be 1.8 million on average to fill out the roster, 1.8 per player, who’s filling out the roster at those numbers, riddle me that Batman……….

I think there are at least 4 roster spots on any given roster that shouldn’t cost you much more than around $1M each on average. 4th line, backup goaltender. Bottom pair defenders shouldn’t be a ton more.

Theres no question it’s going to be tight (for one year then we can reshape this as needed) but between those cheap end roles and also ELC players like Knies and Woll and hopefully others, I think we can make it work. It’s very obviously not ideal, but it’s also not impossible.

 

[ToneDog]

A better allocation of the cap would give them a better shot at winning a Cup.

They'll free up some money in the next two years so we’ll have to wait to see if they can build a contender.

Another issue that no one really talks about, but is the core good enough to even build around and win a SC?

Made it clearer. That is the $100,000,000 question. I'm guessing NO.

It will be interesting when it is all said and done, to see how many kicks at the can they got and how many did it take to win a SC because Shanny told me they will win with this core.

 

[Racer88]

Well I like watching them, they are exciting and for 6 months they play the kind of hockey I grew up playing. Wide open up and down exciting river hockey. Sure it would be great to win in the playoffs but it is different, more tough in your face knock you through the boards hockey. If we are in it great if not I can find other things to do and not miss a beat. During the winter months I feel trapped not much to do, the games are the highlight of my day most of the time. So I like winning during the season.

For sure, I usually get my hot rods out by the time the Leafs take their usual swan dive every spring.

Say in six years the cap is at 110M (about 4M per year increase), and players who put up 100 points are getting 13.5% (as happens now - Mitch is getting 13.38 and hasn't hit 100). That's almost 15M per season.

If someone is putting up 100 points and making 15, and Willy is putting up 70 points and making 11.5, is that so bad?

Didn’t Dubas already make that gamble on a continuing cap rising…..and here we are again

 

[JT AM da real deal]

This Tax debate has been debunked already by Allan Walsh. If you have a good accountant tax isn’t an issue.

Be careful on this subject as a CA myself (feels like a hundred years ago) and a guy who tried to hire da RIGHT CPAs for my kids one who still plays pro hockey (hard to give it up when it is all you know) it is still very difficult to find and afford da RIGHT CPAs .. there are not that many who really know da subject matter .. and da 2 guys who do know it really well at KPMG are very expensive .. not every player is JT who can afford to buy a tax loss carryforward public shell, a signed off tax plan and then strip dividends through acquired real estate rolled up inside various holdcos to achieve Canadian tax savings .. this is EXTREMELY complicated stuff and only CPAs who know da rules in each jurisdiction where da players spend time and play can calculate da appropriate tax due and then even more specialized people know how to build da plans inside of these complicated calculations

 

[Sypher04]

For sure, I usually get my hot rods out by the time the Leafs take their usual swan dive every spring.


Didn’t Dubas already make that gamble on a continuing cap rising…..and here we are again

Every GM does and will continue to.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

But I don't think you can ignore the fact that they won the President's Trophy the year before.

You're right, but with the help of Huberdeau and Weegar.

 

[Racer88]

Every GM does and will continue to.

While that may be true to a certain extent Dubas is the only one who bet so much and screwed the team so bad.
Now we are locked in that cycle with not many outs

 

[CabanaBoy5]

And they accomplished more in those 2 months than the Leafs have in 7 years

You're right, but mainly because we haven't had the kind of goaltending Bob gave the Panthers since Cujo and Belfour.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

It seems some people are missing the positives of this contract. If Nylander finishes where he is now top 5ish in scoring then Marner can't ask for close to Matthews deal he will have to settle for similar money to Nylander's.

 

[JKG33]

You're right, but mainly because we haven't had the kind of goaltending Bob gave the Panthers since Cujo and Belfour.

A goalie isn't going to suddenly change the compete level of the overpaid 4

 

[Evilhomer]

Be careful on this subject as a CA myself (feels like a hundred years ago) and a guy who tried to hire da RIGHT CPAs for my kids one who still plays pro hockey (hard to give it up when it is all you know) it is still very difficult to find and afford da RIGHT CPAs .. there are not that many who really know da subject matter .. and da 2 guys who do know it really well at KPMG are very expensive .. not every player is JT who can afford to buy a tax loss carryforward public shell, a signed off tax plan and then strip dividends through acquired real estate rolled up inside various holdcos to achieve Canadian tax savings .. this is EXTREMELY complicated stuff and only CPAs who know da rules in each jurisdiction where da players spend time and play can calculate da appropriate tax due and then even more specialized people know how to build da plans inside of these complicated calculations

Finally, someone acknowledges that tax planning is complicated! Thank you. You are also absolutely correct that this kind of planning is generally going to be restricted to the athletes who make big dollars - for instance, Joe Woll isn't doing much tax planning. But every single guy who signs a big contract is paying very expensive legal and tax advisors to implement tax planning strategies to minimize any tax disadvantages (whether between jurisdictions or within a single jurisdiction). Or maybe they all just hire Frankie Corrado, Esquire.

 

[Sypher04]

While that may be true to a certain extent Dubas is the only one who bet so much and screwed the team so bad.
Now we are locked in that cycle with not many outs

That’s not really true though. Look I don’t give a shit about Dubas, slag him to your heart’s content. There’s plenty of fodder there to use, but this idea that we bet on cap growth any more than the other 31 teams isn’t reality. The only reason it looks so bad for us is because our biggest signings (of Matthews and Marner particularly) came right before the pandemic struck, whereas other teams had committed their cap years earlier.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

A goalie isn't going to suddenly change the compete level of the overpaid 4

I don't agree. I've noticed a change in Matthew's and Nylander's compete level this season. There's no question about JT's desire, he's been like a dog on a bone, not always effective, but he tries. Marner is the one who has to show more compete, especially in the playoffs. Then again, he's the one I wanted traded after the Montreal playoff fiasco.

I want to add that this years team has shown much better support for each other thanks to Domi, Bertuzzi, Benoit,etc. That’s definitely different tha years past. We need the core 4 to provide offence and compete and we’ll be fine. Defence needs upgrading or the goaltending will be a problem regardless of the compete level.

 

[Notsince67]

Geepers Mister you should be writing for Jo Koy or Bert Kreischer. It'll give their careers new life by adding some acerbic originality, something clearly lacking in what they do.

Ahh...irony. The first time I heard somone calling someone Paul, I was riding my pet dinosaur. We might as well go right to the knock knock jokes.

 

[ToneDog]

That’s not really true though. Look I don’t give a shit about Dubas, slag him to your heart’s content. There’s plenty of fodder there to use, but this idea that we bet on cap growth any more than the other 31 teams isn’t reality. The only reason it looks so bad for us is because our biggest signings (of Matthews and Marner particularly) came right before the pandemic struck, whereas other teams had committed their cap years earlier.

Dubas bet everything on the 3 amigos, unfortunately he did not bet on them early enough and for long enough, Should have locked up Matty, Marner and Nylander the first day he could and for max term. He blew it, but it's all water under the bridge. Unfortunately, Tre picked up where the Dube left off.

 

[therealkoho]

If you’re talking about the Marner thing, you’re welcome to believe it even if there’s little to nothing that ever actually supported it.

Dubas made some interesting puppies on that little adventure, at least according to what I heard.

 

[Notsince67]

People forget that it's all MMs fault, just sayin.

I thought people were saying it was because you cant win with 3 players above 10mm.

I tend to think it is some other completely random variable such as too many players whose numbers end in 4...and we have 4 of them this year.
double curse

 

[therealkoho]

Ahh...irony. The first time I heard somone calling someone Paul, I was riding my pet dinosaur. We might as well go right to the knock knock jokes.

Never called anyone Paul, nor would I presume to. I think you may have me mixed up a few of the other folks who use that as their big go to!

 

[ACC1224]

Ahh...irony. The first time I heard somone calling someone Paul, I was riding my pet dinosaur. We might as well go right to the knock knock jokes.

It pretty much confirms they're simple, have nothing of value to say and easily ignored.

 

[Notsince67]

It seems some people are missing the positives of this contract. If Nylander finishes where he is now top 5ish in scoring then Marner can't ask for close to Matthews deal he will have to settle for similar money to Nylander's.

Marner has a year and a half before he needs to sign. I think you will be surprised how much it is for. He wont be taking less of a cap percentage than he gets now

 

[Gary Nylund]

Ahh...irony. The first time I heard somone calling someone Paul, I was riding my pet dinosaur. We might as well go right to the knock knock jokes.

knock knock

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Surely Keefe won't be allowed to stash a 11.5 mil player on PP2 in the playoffs anymore?

 

[keonsbitterness]

Can you imagine how hot it's going to get if (more probably: when) the Leafs get bounced out of the 1st round again?

Yes I can.

MacKinnon and Tkachuk have no trade protection.
Aho, Pastrnak, Barkov all lose their NMCs when they get older.

Leafs gave him the world for 38 games.

For the record, MacKinnon has a full NMC; Tkachuk has 5 years of NMC followed by two of a modified NTC (August 1, 2028 the player submits a 16 team no trade list); Aho's new deal kicking in next year has 7 x NMC and then a final year of M-NTC, NMC (2031-32: 15 team no-trade list); Pastrnak year 6: NMC + 8 team TO trade list, year 7: 10 team TO trade list, year 8: 10 team NO trade list; Barkov has a M-NTC is years 7 and 8 (player submits a 16 team trade list starting in 2028).

If any of these dipshits could show a fraction of the give-a-shit Benn does the deals wouldn't be bad

What give-a-shit? Benn's pts/game is also worse in the playoffs.

As a cowboys fan...

That explains a lot.