Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[Larcos_Unal]

Just remember pictures.. if

Pictures? I'd hire Scorsese to direct it bro

 

[ULF_55]

Based on the thread title:

Nylander is naive.

Have to agree there.

He's completely unaware of the selfishness of the Double Digits.

Unless he's just telling the other teams he's available and he's a team first player.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Essentially, it’s none of his effing business.

If there’s an X amount of dollars Nylander can live with to stay a Leaf and to pursue winning, that number should be known. If he wants to shave a little off to help the team. Great. That’s the end of it. Your market rate. Your good guy rate. The end.

But instead we’re on a constant “what about him” spiral of escalating salaries because each of our homegrown stars thinks each of their value is floating relative to the other guy, all pegged to the Tavares dollar.

Lol if only everything in life could be looked at in a vacuum hey? Life would be much easier.

What if your job had x amount of money for bonuses and you say "hey I'm ok with with having less of a bonus so that the summer intern can get a bonus". Then you later find out that your senior colleague leveraged the bonus money you left on the table and took it for himself saying he was either going to get a higher bonus or leave the company. Your telling me you'd say "oh geez well I don't care that the money I left for the intern is actually going to my already handsomely paid colleague, atleast I intended to do something good!"

That's why it's about him. Matthews has helped (not led) this team get to 1 second round appearance. Ain't no way I'd be taking less money if this guy is trying to cashout after no significant playoff success. If he's not taking less and thus they can't pay me fine, I'll get paid more in a different location.

 

[Clark4Ever]

There's a higher chance I have a threesome with Sofia Vergara and Salma Hayek than a chance those guys take a pay cut.

Agreed. Very good choice of partners by the way...

 

[Boxscore]

Nylander isn't wrong. Why should he be the sole guy to earn less for the "team" when the other core guys won't ? Why should he be the one to sacrifice when no one else will. I have 0 beef with Willy, I respect him more actually. He's willing to take less for the team, if the other guys are as well.

This is 1 million % correct. I've said it for 2 weeks now and I'll say it again -- this offseason, and the Leafs success moving forward, all hinges on Matthews and his contract demands. Nylander coming out and publicly stating what we all know to be the reality should have been done by Matthews last week.

During the last round of contracts Nylander ended up taking a bath because he couldn't imagine Marner and Matthews getting the money they did. This time around he's not leaving good money on the table just so the Leafs can take it out of his pocket and hand it to Matthews and Marner once again.

Matthews should be the leader of this team and should reset the culture by openly committing to 12.5 x 8. This will set the bar for Nylander, and ultimately Marner, to take less on their deals so the team can remain together while continuing to add nice pieces like Bertuzzi and Domi.

The fact that Matthews is lurking in the background, waiting for the debris fallout, so he can determine every last dollar that's available for him to gobble up, disgusts me to no end. And if we're being honest, we all know that's exactly what he's doing.

This entire ship is being steered by Matthews and I have the worst feeling his greed is going to sink it. He should have been out there verbally committing to the team long-term to put this all to bed. I don't blame Nylander one bit for not wanting to be the only player who sacrifices for this team, while players like Matthews and Marner get everything they want then vanish in the playoffs time and time again.

 

[Sammy Kat]

If Marner is like his dad, and I think he is ... I'll just let you fill in the rest.

Little doubt about that too.

All 3 showed us what they are about the last round of talks.

Leaf luck is just bad,tons of stars help out all the other teams and we find the 3 little pigs whose beds are still not soft enough and need more green to soften them up.

 

[tuckerintensity]

1) Matthews and his ask is none of Nylander’s business. Full stop.

2) What would Nylander consider to be a Matthews hometown discount? Null/undefined.

3) What is a Nylander hometown discount vs Nylander full rate on the Leafs.

4) What is that relative to what he would get on any other franchise on a 7 year deal?

Oh good, we've reached the bullet point exercise.

1) You're reading far too much into the comment, all he has said (according to a rumour), is that he'd take a discount if others did. He's not going to be the only one. Full stop. But not really, because there's a number 2, 3, and 4.
2) It likely doesn't matter. He's not saying "only if you pay Auston X," he's saying "sure, I'll discuss that if others are, too, but show me a deal you've signed in the past few days that suggest others are doing what you're asking me to do."
3) Ah, something that matters, but they are (rumoured) to be asking him to sign at 8, that's a steep discount.
4) That is much lower than he could get on another team. Teams would bend over backwards to give him only 8, including us. He'd get 9.5 pretty easily on the open market right now, if we got him for 9, we'd still be doing well. Years is pretty inconsequential, it'll likely be a sign and trade if he goes.

There is a middle ground here and that's likely what both have in mind, between 9 and 9.5. Obviously both are going to ask for the things they have, but you seem bent out of shape about one side of this. The fact that Treliving hates Gross (and likely vice versa) probably makes it worse, but this isn't a one side is the problem situation no matter how much you dislike one of the sides.

 

[egd27]

Which players do you think the NHLPA are going to make happy/

Just who exactly do you think the NHLPA is?

BTW.......Kerfoot sits on the Executive Board of the PA so that may not have been the best example.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Have to agree there.

He's completely unaware of the selfishness of the Double Digits.

Unless he's just telling the other teams he's available and he's a team first player.

For sure. To me there's a PR battle going on. The Leafs have the upper hand because they announced quickly that the 2 parties are far apart. Nylander's agent is letting it be known that Nylander is a nice guy and willing to take less as long as m the other core pieces take less. Nylander is a good player, but he's not a generational talent. He certainly doesn't take draws, and match-up like Matthews does.

 

[Boxscore]

That's the Agents, the players have little involvement in the negotiation.

Do the players work for the agents or the the agents work for the player?

If a player wants to stay on a team, their agents make it happen, period.

 

[Canadian Finn]

Lotta amateur GM's in here today. All are out to lunch on valuation. LOL

"He's only worth xxx because I have zero facts to argue, but I will use tiny sample sizes of poor play because it furthers my narrative."

And some didn't even do that much thinking. Well done on those ongoing efforts to comically prove yet again why we have the least informed fanbase!!

our fanbase fits our teams success.

we deserve each other.

 

[ACC1224]

Do the players work for the agents or the the agents work for the player?

If a player wants to stay on a team, their agents make it happen, period.

The agent works for the player, the player works for the team.
Pretty standard stuff.

 

[Lightsol]

That will be tough to score 90 points a season

And then you remember that Nylander has never actually hit 90 points in a season.

 

[Stephen]

Lol if only everything in life could be looked at in a vacuum hey? Life would be much easier.

What if your job had x amount of money for bonuses and you say "hey I'm ok with with having less of a bonus so that the summer intern can get a bonus". Then you later find out that your senior colleague leveraged the bonus money you left on the table and took it for himself saying he was either going to get a higher bonus or leave the company. Your telling me you'd say "oh geez well I don't care that the money I left for the intern is actually going to my already handsomely paid colleague, atleast I intended to do something good!"

That's why it's about him. Matthews has helped (not led) this team get to 1 second round appearance. Ain't no way I'd be taking less money if this guy is trying to cashout after no significant playoff success. If he's not taking less and thus they can't pay me fine, I'll get paid more in a different location.

Well, every time we have to do anything with this roster, and specifically this core it’s an exercise in historical recrimination, finger pointing and in-house bickering over who should be overpaid by what.

Why do we need this? They’re a unique collection of talent but they don’t work together, they’re not successful. What is the value proposition in going through so much trouble just to make a recipe we don’t even like stay together?

If Matthew Tkachuk money isn’t good enough for William to stay a Leaf and is contingent on some external input from Auston Matthews, let’s just cut the cord and spend the money on someone else who will come to Toronto and not be so focused on their entitlement to an overpay.

 

[Marshy]

And then you remember that Nylander has never actually hit 90 points in a season.

You can (and maybe even should) get 10M by scoring less than 90 points a season IF you are bringing other intangibles to the table....200 foot game, elite C....penalty killer....60% on draws....but if you're only claim to fame is offence...I think you have to be hitting that 90 points every season with outlier seasons no worse than 80 and hitting 100 in your best year(s).

 

[QJo]

Or, he could take the initiative, give the discount and then it's on Matthews and Marner.

Putting the onus on someone else to make the first big move is some weak ass you-know-what.

Imagine not having as much money for yourself and your family because you wanted to win and then seeing the other guys take all that money you left so that you can't win anyway. Fewf at least you wouldn't have to look at a weak ass you-know-what in the mirror...

 

[Boxscore]

The agent works for the player, the player works for the team.
Pretty standard stuff.

Exactly. So if Nylander, Marner, Matthews, or anyone truly wants to remain a Leaf, they'll order their agents to make it happen. I'm sick of hearing others say, "it's not the player being greedy, it's the agent." The agent does what the player wants.

 

[Stephen]

Oh good, we've reached the bullet point exercise.

1) You're reading far too much into the comment, all he has said (according to a rumour), is that he'd take a discount if others did. He's not going to be the only one. Full stop. But not really, because there's a number 2, 3, and 4.
2) It likely doesn't matter. He's not saying "only if you pay Auston X," he's saying "sure, I'll discuss that if others are, too, but show me a deal you've signed in the past few days that suggest others are doing what you're asking me to do."
3) Ah, something that matters, but they are (rumoured) to be asking him to sign at 8, that's a steep discount.
4) That is much lower than he could get on another team. Teams would bend over backwards to give him only 8, including us. He'd get 9.5 pretty easily on the open market right now, if we got him for 9, we'd still be doing well. Years is pretty inconsequential, it'll likely be a sign and trade if he goes.

There is a middle ground here and that's likely what both have in mind, between 9 and 9.5. Obviously both are going to ask for the things they have, but you seem bent out of shape about one side of this. The fact that Treliving hates Gross (and likely vice versa) probably makes it worse, but this isn't a one side is the problem situation no matter how much you dislike one of the sides.

Yes, obviously the middle ground is $9.0 to $9.5 million. But if we’re going to do a stupid song and dance about Auston Matthews and all the history of Dubas handing out candy to 34, 16 and 91 while Nylander was underpaid, we can’t go over $10.

 

[Stephen]

Exactly. So if Nylander, Marner, Matthews, or anyone truly wants to remain a Leaf, they'll order their agents to make it happen. I'm sick of hearing others say, "it's not the player being greedy, it's the agent." The agent does what the player wants.

I’m 100% they want to be Leafs, want to win and want to get their bag more than all the other peasants in the NHL. Problem is you can have a maximum of 2/3 things as an individual and as a collective. Choose wisely. Or don’t.

 

[andora]

Pictures? I'd hire Scorsese to direct it bro

 

[Trapper]

Laugh ...

I think Nylander would give a 15% discount to stay in Toronto. He doesn't like moving.

He's probably the only one who would, we know the Double Digits are all about the money. And Matthews went across the ocean to chase money before being drafted.

Anyone can make up stories.

Maybe we should let Nylander negotiate the contracts for Matthews and tell Marner what he is going to make. That way Willy can ensure they’ve taken a discount.

 

[LeafSteel]

I'm good with Nylander. He's a valuable and over-looked player on our team. Marner and Matthews get the spotlight disproportionately compared to him.

Rielly started things with leaving money on the table, and I bet 1000% if Tavares was allowed to renegotiate his contract he would also leave money on the table. Those are the 2 real Captain's of this team, on the ice and off it.

It's Matthews and Marner who thus far have shown an inability to do anything that didn't involve the most money at the most favorable term to them.

They say they love it here and want to win, but thus far they've won nothing and have directly contributed to the inability of the Leafs to fill out their roster. No they couldn't predict a pandemic and the Salary Cap freeze, so they get that one free.

However, squeezing every penny again, and taking the best deal for themselves just shows again that they are full of shit and it's literally a pigs to the trough mindset with M&M.

They got generous deals the 1st time around, they saw 1st hand how disproportionate cap allocation directly affects the teams competitiveness. It's now time for them to walk the walk after talking the talk, and it starts with Matthews.

 

[PromisedLand]

I'd bet that next summer as an UFA, there's at least one team and probably more that's willing to pay Willie 10 million a year. JMHO.

how many of them can do about 80 to 90 percent in signing bonuses? essentially a buyout proof contract?

 

[AvroArrow]

I think Matthews signing is basically

I'm interseted if you re-do this comparison except use points/60 min. Nylander gets less playing time than Matthews or Marner, doesn't he?

Over the last 3 seasons if we're using points per 60, instead of PPG to compare to their peers


McDavid 4.7p/60 = $2659574 per point per 60 $12.5M
Mackinnon 4p/60 = $3150000 per point per 60 $12.6M
Pastrnak 3.5p/60 $3214285 per point per 60 $11.25M
Meier 2.22p/60 $3963963 per point per 60 $8.8M

Average excluding McDavid, $3442749 per point per 60


If we're paying our guys based on their P/60 directly using their peers as a reference, they should be getting


Marner 3.6p/60 = $12.39M
Nylander 3.2p/60 = $11M
Matthews 3.7p/60 = $$12.7M


Comparatively, if McDavid was paid by the same standard his cap hit should be $16.1M to get the same value per dollar spent


EDIT: I don't think p/60 is the way to go, you've got guys like David Perron among the league leaders up there. I don't think it's the best stat for something like this, the ppg comparison I did earlier is a better indicator imo.

 

[myleafs]

There's a higher chance I have a threesome with Sofia Vergara and Salma Hayek than a chance those guys take a pay cut.