Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[Strangle]

You're not wrong, but that's the entire point -- these players have been "leveraging" the Leafs from the moment Tavares told them, "The Sharks are willing to pay me 13 million." When Tavares did that, the Leafs response should have been, "That's great, but we have three other future stars that need to be signed so we can pay you 9.5 million. Would you be happy with that? If not, no hard feelings, enjoy San Jose."

Let's be honest, any good player can leverage any team whenever they get the chance. After MacKinnon won the Cup for the Avs he could have leveraged them into paying him $15 million a year. What are they going to do, trade their best forward who helped lead them to a Cup? No, they would be forced to pay him. But he didn't leverage them, he signed 8 years for only 700k more than Matthews currently makes on a deal that was signed 4 years ago lmao.

Players who love the team they play for do not leverage them, they leave money on the table to help put the team, and their teammates, in a better situation to win championships.

That's the problem the Leafs currently face with these players -- they are all about leveraging them. None of them have committed easily and for long-term while leaving some decent coin on the table. These players leverage the Leafs like they are free agents leveraging a desperate team starved for talent, it's disgusting.

The idea was that the team would have had more succes before this critical point.

They haven’t.

Time to start moving on

 

[A1LeafNation]

Exactly. I honestly have no idea how anyone could take issue with this.

Two wrongs don't make it right. Leafs can choose to walk away if Nylander wants to have it.

 

[Fogelhund]

on the Penguins he might get that,nobody else touches him for that.

Go ahead, please list me all the PPG C's, who are 58% in the dot, making less than $4 mil in the league... veterans.. not ELC's.... pull out the comparables.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Tavares would have the best contract in the league at Kerfoot money

You make close to 0 sense, I don't know what you're arguing anymore.

I'll make it real simple. For 11m he doesn't do enough in the playoffs. Look at all the other 2nd line Cs who have won and how much they make and hiw they perform.

 

[Marshy]

Nylander isn't wrong. Why should he be the sole guy to earn less for the "team" when the other core guys won't ? Why should he be the one to sacrifice when no one else will. I have 0 beef with Willy, I respect him more actually. He's willing to take less for the team, if the other guys are as well. What else can you ask for ? "Hey Willy Auston and Mitch won't take a discount and are going to bend us over for every penny, but we expect you to be the one to sacrifice millions for the good of the team"

Hopefully Auston responds to this the right way, what deal he signs will determine the future of the franchise. Time to show us all, are you about winning or about the money ?

There's a scenario where neither is willing to take a discount and fights for every last penny. Would you trade them both in that situation? I feel a team that would do that would take a step back initially, but be better/healthier overall in the grand scheme of things. Sends the right message that team comes before the individual.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Two wrongs don't make it right. Leafs can choose to walk away if Nylander wants to have it.

If Nylander wants to wait to see what Matthews signs for, and isn't willing to give a discount unless Matthews does the same, what exactly is is that's wrong with that?

Of course the Leafs can walk away, and a year from now so can Nylander, that all goes without saying.

 

[EGL22]

So are you saying Treliving should or should not give increases to what are bad contracts?

Consider:
marner makes 55% more than Nylander
Matthews makes 66% more than Nylander

Tavares makes 58% more than Nylander
Tavares was UFA, a different kettle of fish.

Trade Nylander, and don't carry on the "stupidity" by increasing those bad contracts?

No,bad contracts should never be the reason for more bad contracts.

As I said,Dubas the idiot gave out a stupid contract,it never should have been but alas it happened.

Now others say he got that I want it too but it is based on a huge error and not reality and must be considered a one time thing never to happen again.

The continued use of Marners contract as a base is not right because everyone agrees it was a huge mistake.

 

[EGL22]

Go ahead, please list me all the PPG C's, who are 58% in the dot, making less than $4 mil in the league... veterans.. not ELC's.... pull out the comparables.

He is not getting faster and better over the next couple of years.
He might be a okay as a winger but even then his decline will keep him under 5.
His center days will be over.

 

[supermann_98]

Tavares will easily be worth $4-5 mil on his next contract, he just needs to eventually be bumped out of the 2C spot.

He's 32 right now and his foot speed is diminishing which each year that passes. You think he'll be worth $4-5m when he's 34? Maybe because the cap will rise you could make that argument, maybe his "name value" makes him worth that amount, but when you consider he's been overpaid by around $2-3m every year he's been here his next contract should be near league minimum on the Leafs, or he could elect to uproot and move his family to Philly or some team willing to give him $4m+

 

[FrozenJagrt]

Nylander isn't wrong. Why should he be the sole guy to earn less for the "team" when the other core guys won't ? Why should he be the one to sacrifice when no one else will. I have 0 beef with Willy, I respect him more actually. He's willing to take less for the team, if the other guys are as well. What else can you ask for ? "Hey Willy, Auston and Mitch won't take a discount and are going to bend us over for every penny, but we expect you to be the one to sacrifice millions for the good of the team"

Kind of my thoughts on the matter. If the team isn't going to do him any favours, why should he be willing to take less?

It wouldn't shock me to see him get 10+ on the open market. Free agency is nuts and it's not often you get a young PPG player hitting the market, especially one who puts up those numbers without being the primary offensive guy for his team.

 

[MCR74]

Tavares will easily be worth $4-5 mil on his next contract, he just needs to eventually be bumped out of the 2C spot.

And hopefully that will be somewhere else.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Bye Bye Willie
Bye Bye Willie
Bye Bye Willie
So sad to see you go!

But you choose your agent, you made your bed, sleep well, because I will.
I could never decide that after elimination game you immediately left town. Was it because you could stand your team mates, or they couldn't stand you.
The answer is not important now

 

[Dekes For Days]

I agree, the post wasn't serious, it was in jest.
Not everyone takes everything posted as serious.
Some people are always serious and so for those people nuance can be tricky.

Oh, my post was a joke too. Didn't you get it? Not everything is meant to be so serious!
I'm glad we agree about the scenario being unrealistic. Hopefully we can just sign them all to appropriate deals.

 

[AvroArrow]

There's a scenario where neither is willing to take a discount and fights for every last penny. Would you trade them both in that situation? I feel a team that would do that would take a step back initially, but be better/healthier overall in the grand scheme of things. Sends the right message that team comes before the individual.

It would suck but could also lead to a re rebuild, like Buffalo. The first one with Eichel didn't work, they moved on from him and ROR got some huge pieces back and look like a future dynasty. As long as they're managed properly and not like how our management handled things 5 years ago, they're poised to make multiple deep runs.

If our guys aren't about winning, sorry I don't want them. My allegiance is with the Maple Leafs, not with any individual player. If a player decides he is bigger than the team and just wants to fill his pockets at the expense of winning a cup, sorry you can go. They aren't naive little kids, NHLers are very aware of how the cap works and how taking a massive deal effects the rest of the team. What it says is essentially I don't give a shit about the team or getting the necessary surrounding pieces to win a cup, I want my money. At which point management/ownership as the make a decision, are they about selling regular season tickets/merchandise etc. or are they about winning.

 

[Strangle]

To be fair one has to really ask how much is Marner worth more than Nylander in terms of AAV

What has been the case?
Marner 11 AAV and Nylander 7 AAV; Question: Is Marner really worth 4 AAV more than Nylander?

At max I'd put Marner at 2M AAV more than Nylander

So hypothetically if Nylander signs for say 9M, there is no way Marner's next contract should exceed 11 AAV which he is already making IMO


Marner is significantly overpaid for a contract coming out of RFA, and IMO Willy is within his right to question this; that said, we are stuck with Marner's contract so the new GM must to what is in the best interest of the team. It sucks for Willy and the Leafs fans IMO; but our hands are tied due to massive overpayments on RFA contracts by previous GM.

If I was Tree, I’d just sit Matthews, Marner and Nylander down together and say:

“We have $33m to spend between the 3 of you. Work out what each of your contracts are going to be. $11m each? Matthews $14, Mitch $12 and Willy $5m? You guys sort it out and let me know and we will write up the contracts”

 

[Dekes For Days]

I’m not at all certain that’s accurate. He’s their player, why wouldn’t they be able to talk numbers

As far as I understand it, there are limitations in the CBA about when you can negotiate extensions. Generally one year out for most, and January 1st for one-year deals.
It's to prevent sketchy cap shenanigans.

 

[sxvnert]

Both Matthews and Nylander should have been traded by now. The fact that both are waiting to sqeeze every last dime out of the leafs proves they're money grubbing pos who will never will a damn thing in this league. Let them become someone elses problem.

 

[Strangle]

or regular season.

Tavares was not even top 50 in even strength production last season, I think he was ranked in the 90s for even strength production. With a cap hit of 11 AAV that is not even "par"

I think a lot of people are missing the forest for the trees here. Everyone knew this was going to happen.

The idea was for them TO WIN before we reached this point.

Since they couldn’t do that, we have to retool, and that should mean moving on from some of the core

 

[shaner8989]

If they care about winning they will all take less. If not then you trade all of them. Never win with selfish people.

 

[A1LeafNation]

I think a lot of people are missing the forest for the trees here. Everyone knew this was going to happen.

The idea was for them TO WIN before we reached this point.

Since they couldn’t do that, we have to retool, and that should mean moving on from some of the core

Some ppl think he should be making 8m after this deal. Insanity.

 

[Stephen]

I personally like Willie more than Marner, but there’s a convergence point where paying Willie closer to Mitch money is not the answer.

Perhaps this is where you break up the band once and for all and trade Nylander. Matthews, Marner and Nylander were the golden generation of home grown, high octane talent and they all seem like entitled to an MLSE overpay like it’s their personal inheritance.

You kinda just need a Timo Meier who will come in and say “I’m loyal to the organization, I believe in the program and I’ll take obscene money to help the team win” vs “I need obscene money plus a vanity bonus money because of my teammate over there. Plus make it future proof so I still get an overpay so there’s no amortization possibility when the cap goes up.”

We want to give these guys everything already. But they want everything + more. It’s just untenable.

Nylander money gets re-invested this summer. Then Tavares comes off the books and at most we have Matthews and Nylander and around them a stronger core of maybe 3-4 NHLers splitting the $18 million saved on JT and Will.

 

[Trapper]

Doubt Matthews/Marner take less.
So there is your answer.
Matthews takes 12.6 x 8, trade Marner , Willy takes less.

 

[Zero1]

I agree that Willy doesn’t need to take less if the other top guys aren’t but at the same time no one is asking them to take significantly less. We’re talking about what 500k-700k less per year? You’ll make more than that in endorsements just playing for the Leafs and build a lot of goodwill with the fan base.

Changing the culture for the Leafs starts with Matthews taking a fair contract. If he signs for 8x$12.7 mill then everyone can agree that he’s serious about winning.

 

[kevsh]

If Nylander wants to wait to see what Matthews signs for, and isn't willing to give a discount unless Matthews does the same, what exactly is is that's wrong with that?

Or, he could take the initiative, give the discount and then it's on Matthews and Marner.

Putting the onus on someone else to make the first big move is some weak ass you-know-what.

 

[Fogelhund]

He's 32 right now and his foot speed is diminishing which each year that passes. You think he'll be worth $4-5m when he's 34? Maybe because the cap will rise you could make that argument, maybe his "name value" makes him worth that amount, but when you consider he's been overpaid by around $2-3m every year he's been here his next contract should be near league minimum on the Leafs, or he could elect to uproot and move his family to Philly or some team willing to give him $4m+

That’s he’s currently overpaid, if he is, is irrelevant to the next contract. His next pay will be determined by his performance for the next two years.

So far, his offense hasn’t declined, nor has his faceoff ability.

Even if he drops to a 60 point, 55% in the dot C, go ahead and show me the comparables at league minimum as you claim.

The reality is, at $4mil he’s be one of the best value contracts in the league, if the term is 2-3 years, especially if the cap is nearing 9 mil.

So, show me the comparables at league minimum, for his current stats. Go ahead.