Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[myleafs]

Losing Dubas was NOT a step backwards.
He is the reason we are in this mess.
His stain will remain for the next 2 drafts as well as he mortgaged us well into the future.

Takes special lenses to look at the predicament the leafs are in at the moment and think yea Dubas did such an amazing job I wish he was still here.

 

[EGL22]

It just makes me so sad to see 30 pages of debate on this subject.

I am old enough to remember watching the last Cup win in 67.

Since that time to now Keon,Sittler/Mac/Tiger/Salming,Vaive,Gilmour,Clark,Roberts,Cujo,Sundin just to name a few that I cheered for and we all loved.

Now I am spending time debating these greedy heartless asshole chokers getting how many more millions while only really liking Reilly.

Time for a coffee,and making it Irish.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Your profile picture is the main reason we're in this mess.

I’m very well aware lol. You do realize my caption is in reference to the profile pic?

 

[PROUD PAPA]

Later Will.
Serious change would be oh so welcome.

 

[JKG33]

I find the perception of Nylander being a "playoff performer" very interesting. I get that he scored some big goals which is what many fans have chosen to remember. But why are we are so quick to forgive and forget the fact that he is a complete no show in so many other vital parts of a game.

I honestly can't remember a single time he purposely blocked a shot late in a game, made a good hit or stood up for a teammate. He is the face of the "Leafs" are easy to play against" crowd. I believe teams that have playoff success eventually wear the other team down like a boxer early in a bout. Nylander offers none of that.

Don't get me wrong. I love what 88 does on the offensive side of the rink. Great player. But you simply can't pay a guy like that north of 9 million. I would much prefer to have a Bertuzzi type player at 6-7 million while using the other 2-3 million elsewhere.

I'll never forget him absolutely ducking Gudas in OT, leading to a giveaway instead of a scoring chance. That single play perfectly captures the identity of this team

 

[Gary Nylund]

Marner brings so much more to a game than Willy. Not even close imo.

Not in the playoffs he doesn't.

I understand the frustration with Marners bitchy attitude and his playoff "performances" but the guy is an elite player that can be played in literally any situation. PK/PP, when you're defending a late game goal or trying to score a late game goal, O-zone/D-zone starts.

Nylander has been much better in the playoffs IMO, but he isn't half as good off the puck as Marner is. I've shit on Marner quite a bit, having some time to cool off if I keep one, I'm keeping Marner.

If Nylander's been much better in the playoffs, why would you choose Marner over him?

Marner's such an amazing player, you're right about how good he is off the puck and he's a joy to watch so much of the time (on the PK is my favirate). The single most frustrating thing about this team over the last 5 years or so is the contrast between how good Marner looks most of the time and how bad he looks all too often in the most important playoff games over that time span. How can such a massively talented player just freeze up in those moments is a mystery that I have no answers for. I'm getting tired of hoping next year will be different, not sure what else to say. Marner's either going to go down as one of the best players in team history, or the single biggest disappointment in team history and it's not clear to me ATM which it's going to be.

 

[myleafs]

I have yet to see anything the Leafs have done so far in this offseason as a step forward. Dubas is irrelevant. Neither a step forward or back. Just a mouthpiece for Shanahan. Keeping Keefe and letting Marner walk right into his NTC window so he can handicap this team with unreasonable contract demands in the future is a step back. How far is the step back remains to be seen but it's definitely not looking good.

I was thinking this. As of today before ufa hits is there a single difference on this team from last year other than the gm of course?

 

[DarkKnight]

Pickup Duchene for 6 as a replacement for Bill, plus what you get for Bill, now that’s some increased value.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Honestly, we could retain on Matthews and Marner. Grab Picks, young players and expiring contracts.

Willy at his current deal will still get you a very asset.

2 years JT comes off the books.

Get some Canadian boys who want to play in TO and give a shit about winning.

Exactly. Retain, take back salary, whatever. Go into the tank for a couple of years, do that and JT will probably agree to be moved as well, Rielly too while we're at and while it'll never happen, IMHO this would be a perfectly reasonable course of action.

 

[ChurchOfMatthews]

I’m very well aware lol. You do realize my caption is in reference to the profile pic?

Ya wasn't a dig against you, I'm just disgusted at how everything turned out and how avoidable all of it was. I hope you have a good Shanahan picture for your updated picture...

 

[notDatsyuk]

Crazy. Matthews is in no way, shape, or form worth more than McDavid, MacKinnon or Makar.

If we're being completely honest, and remove the homer glasses:

1. Matthews - 12 (a hair less than McDavid/MacKinnon and more than Pastrnak).

2. Marner - 9.25 (a hair less than Matt Tkachuk, with B2B 100+ point seasons and unicorn-like intangibles).

3. Nylander - 8.5 (see Marner above. Ironically, Willie is the only Leaf who is underpaid, but the correct answer isn't an overpayment).

4. Tavares - 6 (and should have been no more than 9.5 when we signed him).

The overpayments began with JT and have been continuing ever since.

OK. Your numbers are all a bit smaller than mine, but in the same ratio to each other (except for JT - I agree with the 9.5 starter, but I don't think he's worth 6 now). I'm actually happier with your numbers than mine, but was afraid I'd get screaming fits rather than intelligent responses.

 

[myleafs]

If he wants that then trade him. As far as I'm concerned they can trade them all and start from scratch. Now, that would be bold.

And a lot more interesting

 

[AvroArrow]

Not in the playoffs he doesn't.

If Nylander's been much better in the playoffs, why would you choose Marner over him?

Marner's such an amazing player, you're right about how good he is off the puck and he's a joy to watch so much of the time (on the PK is my favirate). The single most frustrating thing about this team over the last 5 years or so is the contrast between how good Marner looks most of the time and how bad he looks all too often in the most important playoff games over that time span. How can such a massively talented player just freeze up in those moments is a mystery that I have no answers for. I'm getting tired of hoping next year will be different, not sure what else to say. Marner's either going to go down as one of the best players in team history, or the single biggest disappointment in team history and it's not clear to me ATM which it's going to be.

Remember Matthew Tkachuk and the label of him being complete trash and a playoff choker ? You're only a choker until you aren't, he has too much talent not to break through at some point.

My issue with Willy is when he gets scared of going after pucks and how bad he is defensively. He drives plays offensively but he's not a guy you can play in every situation. Marner on the other hand is the MVP of our PP and PK.

In a perfect world I'd love to keep them both. Gun to my head and I have to pick 1 ? Give me Marner.

 

[thewave]

Crazy. Matthews is in no way, shape, or form worth more than McDavid, MacKinnon or Makar.

If we're being completely honest, and remove the homer glasses:

1. Matthews - 12 (a hair less than McDavid/MacKinnon and more than Pastrnak).

2. Marner - 9.25 (a hair less than Matt Tkachuk, with B2B 100+ point seasons and unicorn-like intangibles).

3. Nylander - 8.5 (see Marner above. Ironically, Willie is the only Leaf who is underpaid, but the correct answer isn't an overpayment).

4. Tavares - 6 (and should have been no more than 9.5 when we signed him).

The overpayments began with JT and have been continuing ever since.

I think this is pretty based. We could put together a competitive team by adding a top tier D with that cap landscape.

 

[myleafs]

I see Willie, Mitch and Matty as ready to sell farm commodities.

A farmer plants his crops, grows them to maturity, the sells them off, rinse wash repeat every year. The famer does not fall in love with his crop, just because he has the best crop, he does not keep them past maturity, spending more money than the return on investment would suggest you should, just to keep them around, he knows when to cultivate. Its the Tampa bay Rays school of asset management. When they get costly, trade for high end cheap talent.

All three have reached maturity, if they are picked now and sold, would easily get a package of 9 to 12 quality players, picks, controllable contracts on team friendly contracts.

Players received in the PLD trade:

Iafallo (29 yrs old) 14 goals (third line minutes)
Vilardi (23 yrs old) 23 goals (third line minutes)
Kupari (23 yrs old) 3 goals (4th line minutes)

Dubois 27 goals

So they traded 27 goals for 40 goals, Vilardi and Kupari have room to grow as they are only 23. Pretty killer deal for Winterpeg. That is a 1.48 multiplier on goals, if that math was used for Mitch (30), Willie (40) and Matty (40), 110 goals out ---- 165 goals return.

I dont think our guys knows how to cultivate so what we will probably end up having is a crop that eventually just wilts and dies on the vine

 

[Ianturnedbull]

It just makes me so sad to see 30 pages of debate on this subject.

I am old enough to remember watching the last Cup win in 67.

Since that time to now Keon,Sittler/Mac/Tiger/Salming,Vaive,Gilmour,Clark,Roberts,Cujo,Sundin just to name a few that I cheered for and we all loved.

Now I am spending time debating these greedy heartless asshole chokers getting how many more millions while only really liking Reilly.

Time for a coffee,and making it Irish.

Lol. It's true. Before I could only stand behind a couple of Leaf players (one was Zack Hyman). Now there's only Morgan Reilly as being the last player to play inspirational hockey in the playoffs.

People are already writing Nylander's euligy, or lamenting TOR's management team not coming up with millions to give Nylander.

Who are our "core 4" anyway? Have they won any cups? Have they done anything in the playoffs to inspire fans?

 

[al secord]

Let me be treated like cattle for 80 million dollars for 8 yrs . It's a tough life

It's not about a tough life, it's about treating people with respect, especially those that come home with goal of winning us a cup. Why would anyone give us an inch if in 3 or 4 years we have no problem throwing them out with the bath water. If they do it to the home town captain, they'd have no qualms doing it to anyone else.

 

[thewave]

It just makes me so sad to see 30 pages of debate on this subject.

I am old enough to remember watching the last Cup win in 67.

Since that time to now Keon,Sittler/Mac/Tiger/Salming,Vaive,Gilmour,Clark,Roberts,Cujo,Sundin just to name a few that I cheered for and we all loved.

Now I am spending time debating these greedy heartless asshole chokers getting how many more millions while only really liking Reilly.

Time for a coffee,and making it Irish.

Here here to Mo as well. This team is 100% the most selfish entitled group we have ever had. Its not even close.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Trade them ALL.
I honestly can’t stand these guys.

Amen.

Call me a radical but I'm more than ready to start over without Shanahan, Keefe or any of the Core 4. These guys ain't it, pure and simple.

I don't care how many games they'd lose during a rebuild. At least you'd be building for something new with some hope, as opposed to throwing bandaids on wounds that require reconstructive surgery and having to plug your nose to cheer for your own team.

Most unlikable Leafs team since I started paying attention in the 90's.

 

[myleafs]

When Shanny hired him, I said he was putting his balls on the line. Man was I wrong. Shanny is teflon.

He is but I think he is on the clock now....this is all on him now whatever happens.

 

[facelessjoe1990]

I say we trade Willie this year. If they crap the bed next year than we trade Marner. Before all that get rid of Shanny.

 

[JKG33]

Amen.

Call me a radical but I'm more than ready to start over without Shanahan, Keefe or any of the Core 4. These guys ain't it, pure and simple.

I don't care how many games they'd lose during a rebuild. At least you'd be building for something new with some hope, as opposed to throwing bandaids on wounds that require reconstructive surgery and having to plug your nose to cheer for your own team.

Most unlikable Leafs team since I started paying attention in the 90's.

Most unlikable 100%. And most embarrassing to cheer for.

When I get chirped for liking them here in Winnipeg, with this core I usually just agree. Like yea they suck, I know

 

[thewave]

Amen.

Call me a radical but I'm more than ready to start over without Shanahan, Keefe or any of the Core 4. These guys ain't it, pure and simple.

I don't care how many games they'd lose during a rebuild. At least you'd be building for something new, as opposed to throwing bandaids on wounds that require reconstructive surgery.

Most unlikable Leafs team since I started paying attention in the 90's.

Like it or not. Lou had the correct lay of the land. He saw it and set out to end entitlement and make an isolated team first team.

I think its safe to say the guy was on to something and had we followed a similar path (outside facial hair) we may be in a much better place.

 

[Menzinger]

I see Willie, Mitch and Matty as ready to sell farm commodities.

A farmer plants his crops, grows them to maturity, the sells them off, rinse wash repeat every year. The famer does not fall in love with his crop, just because he has the best crop, he does not keep them past maturity, spending more money than the return on investment would suggest you should, just to keep them around, he knows when to cultivate. Its the Tampa bay Rays school of asset management. When they get costly, trade for high end cheap talent.

All three have reached maturity, if they are picked now and sold, would easily get a package of 9 to 12 quality players, picks, controllable contracts on team friendly contracts.

Players received in the PLD trade:

Iafallo (29 yrs old) 14 goals (third line minutes)
Vilardi (23 yrs old) 23 goals (third line minutes)
Kupari (23 yrs old) 3 goals (4th line minutes)

Dubois 27 goals

So they traded 27 goals for 40 goals, Vilardi and Kupari have room to grow as they are only 23. Pretty killer deal for Winterpeg. That is a 1.48 multiplier on goals, if that math was used for Mitch (30), Willie (40) and Matty (40), 110 goals out ---- 165 goals return.

Except you'd need to account for the players they'd be replacing in terms of those point totals. The three guys traded for Dubois aren't playing a single shared position ect

 

[Sammy Kat]

I think you missed the sarcasm, as obviously those stats show he was at least as good if not better than all the others.

And yes, he was the only one not playing with top tier linemates, and he managed better numbers regardless.

What would Marner's numbers be like if he was stuck on a line with Tavares and Kerfoot? As it is, he's the only one on that list with a cap hit over $9.5

i think Marners numbers go up a lot facing much less talent and that Willy's numbers drop off a good amount facing the top guys.

I can't remember who the LW was when Marner played with Tavares but I doubt he was any better than Kerfoot and that line got numbers.