Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[HockeyVirus]

He is going to go to a team, and the team is going to go to the final 4 or deeper and Nylander will have played a big role in it. Not surprised he is the next Kadri and gets a cup. And we listen to how dumb we were to keep overpaid bum in Marner and all that.

I would much rather pay Nylander 9.5 than Marner 12.5 even if it makes us a worse team on paper. Especially if the rumor is true that the return for Nylander is not as good as people might think given how hard it is to move salary right now and him needing a big raise.

 

[Sammy Kat]

Funny how that list only has 1 player that was not on the top line facing the top players from the other team.
Those guys would probably being facing each other in best vs best as well as the top pairing D.
What would M+M numbers be if they always got the secondary units and secondary D and how much would Willy's numbers drop against the best.

 

[Boxscore]

Let's level the playing field - if you're re-signing all four today, what are fair numbers?

Matthews - 13
Marner - 10
Nylander 9.5
Tavares - 5 (and I'm being generous)

Crazy. Matthews is in no way, shape, or form worth more than McDavid, MacKinnon or Makar.

If we're being completely honest, and remove the homer glasses:

1. Matthews - 12 (a hair less than McDavid/MacKinnon and more than Pastrnak).

2. Marner - 9.25 (a hair less than Matt Tkachuk, with B2B 100+ point seasons and unicorn-like intangibles).

3. Nylander - 8.5 (see Marner above. Ironically, Willie is the only Leaf who is underpaid, but the correct answer isn't an overpayment).

4. Tavares - 6 (and should have been no more than 9.5 when we signed him).

The overpayments began with JT and have been continuing ever since.

 

[TMLegend]

We're gonna trade the wrong guy aren't we? Not surprising though, it's always been this organizations mantra to try to give the short end of the stick to Nylander whilst simultaneously being afraid of giving an ounce of criticism to Matthews and Marner. AKA the mental midgets.

 

[IPS]

Funny how that list only has 1 player that was not on the top line facing the top players from the other team.
Those guys would probably being facing each other in best vs best as well as the top pairing D.
What would M+M numbers be if they always got the secondary units and secondary D and how much would Willy's numbers drop against the best.

I wasn't aware that playoff numbers suddenly count now.

Could we do Matthews' playoff numbers against McDavid and Mack and use that against him in negotiations?

The standard changes by the minute.

 

[therealkoho]

In all honesty, it's in Nylander's best interest to play hardball with the Leafs and possibly even force a trade. Why stay? What has this team accomplished?

Wouldn't he be better off going somewhere where he gets the hell away from Tavares? Somewhere where he's not the automatic whipping boy? Somewhere where he gets to be on PP1 as he rightfully should?

Regardless of where he goes, he'll get his money. He may even get to go to a team where the offence runs through him and he's not so far down in the pecking order.

View attachment 724080

the problem with Will leaving Toronto is that wherever he goes he's still going to be Will. Those lulls in his play, those shifts and sometimes weeks off is just part of his hockey DNA, in other words that leopard ain't changing his spots. I think it was Mike Futa saying that Willie isn't as a desirable player as he thinks he is, and certainly not at a number over 10

 

[IPS]

Contract negotiation time really is the most exciting time in TO.

We got to watch our overpaid stars continually under perform in the postseason for the last 5-7 years and now negotiation time comes and all of a sudden we need to treat them like they're the bestest players of all time who need to be paid multiple more millions than their comparable.

 

[I am Canadian]

He is going to go to a team, and the team is going to go to the final 4 or deeper and Nylander will have played a big role in it. Not surprised he is the next Kadri and gets a cup. And we listen to how dumb we were to keep overpaid bum in Marner and all that.

I would much rather pay Nylander 9.5 than Marner 12.5 even if it makes us a worse team on paper. Especially if the rumor is true that the return for Nylander is not as good as people might think given how hard it is to move salary right now and him needing a big raise.

100% agree. Nylander shows up in the playoffs, Marner cracks under pressure. It's what it is. Marner is a superior regular season player - but I don't see how with all his warts he is worth 3M more than Nylander.

 

[the Mighty Oak]

Funny how that list only has 1 player that was not on the top line facing the top players from the other team.
Those guys would probably being facing each other in best vs best as well as the top pairing D.
What would M+M numbers be if they always got the secondary units and secondary D and how much would Willy's numbers drop against the best.

So you're saying. willy exploits the other teams second lines, second pairings?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

In all honesty, it's in Nylander's best interest to play hardball with the Leafs and possibly even force a trade. Why stay? What has this team accomplished?

Wouldn't he be better off going somewhere where he gets the hell away from Tavares? Somewhere where he's not the automatic whipping boy? Somewhere where he gets to be on PP1 as he rightfully should?

Regardless of where he goes, he'll get his money. He may even get to go to a team where the offence runs through him and he's not so far down in the pecking order.

View attachment 724080

Agreed, and no one blames him for not wanting more money, etc.

I think fans are a little shocked that this could be the beginning of a break up.

It's not Nylander's fault that every other part of the "core 4" are overpaid.

I think WN knows very well that this might be the beginning of a new chapter with another team.

 

[KaN19]

Treliving should be on his phone all day today talking to other teams about a potential Marner deal. Would be negligent not to. It's the last day he can realistically be moved.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

There are many Western Conference teams that would take Nylander (also Eastern). What if a team offers good assets for Nylander without the sign and trade option?

 

[nuck]

c'mon wave, the merch angle doesn't really work, hell you know as well as I that people were buying Daoust jerseys back in the day, in fact I've even seen Boimistruck jerseys and not just on Freddie or his kids.

God I remember when he was the #1c. And Fred "Boim a truck hit me". Those were painful years.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Treliving should be on his phone all day today talking to other teams about a potential Marner deal. Would be negligent not to. It's the last day he can realistically be moved.

I disagree. Toronto still has a lot of control tomorrow too.

 

[Stephen]

Treliving should be on his phone all day today talking to other teams about a potential Marner deal. Would be negligent not to. It's the last day he can realistically be moved.

As long as the pieces coming back are appropriate there’s nothing wrong with trading both Marner and Nylander separately and letting the contract run down on JT.

There’s nothing wrong with Matthews and a revamped top end core group of 4-5 players with the attributes we want on a different Leafs team. It just comes down to correctly targeting the right replacements.

 

[therealkoho]

Paul Marner says "My boys only comparable is Auston Matthews because he puts up more points" on his $10.9 mil deal.

Michael Nylander says " My boy has scored more regular season goals and playoff goals then Paul's boy Mitch, and in fact my boy Willy playoff stats allow him to hang with Brian Matthews boy Auston and his $11.6 mil deal".

So "Show me the money" !!!

This is all a self inflicted wound the Leafs created for themselves through over payments, and if you were in Nylander's shoes you could see his POV of being screwed over last time but not this time.

and let's not forget

Brian says "my boy is the greatest American born player that will ever play in regular season NHL games, in fact lets' just say he needs, no he should be the highest paid player ever because he scored 60 goals that one time and won a Hart trophy, it doesn't matter that he's never won a scoring title, but I ask you how many guys in NHL history have finished 6th overall in league scoring, 'huh' how many? That's he should get 15m per season but he's such a great leader he's going to accept 14.34 because he knows teams should have at least 18 players or something like that!"

 

[Stephen]

c'mon wave, the merch angle doesn't really work, hell you know as well as I that people were buying Daoust jerseys back in the day, in fact I've even seen Boimistruck jerseys and not just on Freddie or his kids.

Yup. Quality of the player doesn’t really impact the quantity of merchandise being sold…

 

[notDatsyuk]

That slow center was still an 80 pt guy in the regular season.
Plus they did not face the top players on other teams,they got the secondary less talented forwards and not the top pair d.

Willy is good but no way we go 9m for him,he has got to go for that.
It will be interesting to see what he does away from seeing second lines and 2nd d and a much less talented PP and possibly a much less freewheeling team style of play.

At even strength that slow center was a 41 pt guy, while Willy was a 59 pt guy.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I sure William is also talking to his father Michael looking for advice.

Hid dad was a tough sign in his day never feeling he was getting paid fairly and moved around teams as such chasing $$$.

Nylander is nothing but a second rate carbon copy of the original.

Both have an overinflated sense of worth.

 

[therealkoho]

100% agree. Nylander shows up in the playoffs, Marner cracks under pressure. It's what it is. Marner is a superior regular season player - but I don't see how with all his warts he is worth 3M more than Nylander.

that's pretty common sense stuff, can you maybe explain why Matthews should be the highest paid player in the league, who seems to mirror Marner's profile

 

[Sammy Kat]

So you're saying. willy exploits the other teams second lines, second pairings?

I'm saying he is a good player but his numbers are up because he sees the easier competition.
On a top line is gets harder when you face the other teams best.

Rip Marner all you want but when he was on the 2nd line Tavares had the best season of his career and Willy was on top with Matty and was okay.
Marner goes to top line and Matty gets 60 and Willy drops down to 2nd line and production rises up but also Tavares drops back to his norms.

I also don't believe that in playoffs if he was swapped with Marner things would change for the better as he would get shut down just as easily.

At this time for 9M+ he is a luxury we cannot afford.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Agreed, and no one blames him for not wanting more money, etc.

I think fans are a little shocked that this could be the beginning of a break up.

It's not Nylander's fault that every other part of the "core 4" are overpaid.

I think WN knows very well that this might be the beginning of a new chapter with another team.

He knows the business, his Dad was a total merc who always followed the money. I honestly never thought Willie was gonna retire a Leaf unless he signs a 1-year deal at league min when he's 38

 

[YearsintheWilderness]

But Nylander and his agent have the trump card. That tape of team-first Willie boy hell bent for leather putting on the greatest single game display of guts and effort in his career...in the final game of the season when he was going for 40 (and got it).

Marner had one for the ages in terms of effort that game as well. I believe Matthews was looking for some kind of personal milestone but couldn't really be bothered in the end. Imagine if the 'we're team first, personal stats don't matter to us' contingent played like that in the playoffs?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

We're gonna trade the wrong guy aren't we? Not surprising though, it's always been this organizations mantra to try to give the short end of the stick to Nylander whilst simultaneously being afraid of giving an ounce of criticism to Matthews and Marner. AKA the mental midgets.

The wrong guy isn't necessarily the guy you like the most. Nylander has the more value than Marner due to his skill/current contract.

Years ago Fletcher had to make some difficult choices in order to improve things for the future of team.

Gilmour, Wendel, Lefebvre all got traded for very good assets:

Sundin, McCauley, Smith, and Sullivan came the other way.

Bold moves and unpopular at the time, but TOR ended up with a future hall of famer.

 

[CelticDruid]

If he doesn't sign tomorrow it's not the end of the world, he can still be dealt during the season. Lots of time left even with a MNT clause kicking in.

No trade partners for now due to cap and UFAs being signed etc.

Worst case scenario would be Matthews playing like he did last year.

If he gets traded then a lot of our fans will be thrilled until he starts scoring against us.