Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[PromisedLand]

I agree to a point that Willy is really the least of the core 4 problems with the 3 X $11 mil players and their 1 goal combined in round #2 the real issue here.

Problem being the former GM gave all 3 or the $11 mil players a full NMC contract, which now gives them all the power and control other than remaining Leafs beyond their contracts expiring,

So with Willy only having a 10 team limited NTC he is the only one (without complete approval that can be dealt). By process of elimination of available options Willy is the odd man out.

So trade Willy, hold your nose and extend Matthews the mercenary (trying to get as much term) for his outrages ask, hold the line playing hardball with Marner keeping his next salary as close to his current one and cut Tavares in 1/2 at least to extend him. After the dust settles the Leafs will only have 2 X double digit forwards.

I'd rather have Nylander at 9.5 than Marner at 12 to 14 AAV

No way Marner should be getting even a penny increase in the AAV, Matthews should get at max 13 and not a penny more. all for 8 year deals. If Matthews wants 13.5 x 5 he can f-off too.

I mean its the Leafs; Leafs will fill the arena anyway they don't require "superstars" so to speak to fill the arena i.e. ticket revenues.

If the results are the same as what has transpired last 7 years then whats the point of increasing your cost as a business? It is bad business practice IMO and am not even bringing up the ridiculous hockey team building

 

[ULF_55]

I'd rather have Nylander at 9.5 than Marner at 12 to 14 AAV

No way Marner should be getting even a penny increase in the AAV, Matthews should get at max 13 and not a penny more. all for 8 year deals. If Matthews wants 13.5 x 5 he can f-off too.

I mean its the Leafs; Leafs will fill the arena anyway they don't require "superstars" so to speak to fill the arena i.e. ticket revenues.

If the results are the same as what has transpired last 7 years then whats the point of increasing your cost as a business? It is bad business practice IMO and am not even bringing up the ridiculous hockey team building

That would be holding the line and playing hardball.

Lumping players making 50-60% more in with Nylander makes zero sense.

 

[Boxscore]

That would be holding the line and playing hardball.

Lumping players making 50-60% more in with Nylander makes zero sense.

Agree 100%.

Matthews and Marner should not make a penny more, and in Marner's case, he should take a pay cut.

Pastrnak just put up 60 goals, 113 points and signed an 8-year deal x 11.5 mil. MacKinnon just signed for 8 x 12.6 after winning a Cup and just scored 111 points in 71 games. There's the measuring stick for Matthews -- between Pastrnak and MacKinnon. Anything more is an overpayment. Anything less than 8 years is a gross overpayment.

Marner shouldn't make a dollar more than Matt Tkachuks 8 x 9.5

Nylander is the only member of the core who deserves a raise. He has earned Timo Meier money and should get it.

 

[PromisedLand]

Agree 100%.

Matthews and Marner should not make a penny more, and in Marner's case, he should take a pay cut.

Pastrnak just put up 60 goals, 113 points and signed an 8-year deal x 11.5 mil. MacKinnon just signed for 8 x 12.6 after winning a Cup and just scored 111 points in 71 games. There's the measuring stick for Matthews -- between Pastrnak and MacKinnon. Anything more is an overpayment. Anything less than 8 years is a gross overpayment.

Marner shouldn't make a dollar more than Matt Tkachuks 8 x 9.5

Nylander is the only member of the core who deserves a raise. He has earned Timo Meier money and should get it.

How I feel about these 3

100% agree!!!

 

[Mess]

I'd rather have Nylander at 9.5 than Marner at 12 to 14 AAV

No way Marner should be getting even a penny increase in the AAV, Matthews should get at max 13 and not a penny more. all for 8 year deals. If Matthews wants 13.5 x 5 he can f-off too.

I mean its the Leafs; Leafs will fill the arena anyway they don't require "superstars" so to speak to fill the arena i.e. ticket revenues.

If the results are the same as what has transpired last 7 years then whats the point of increasing your cost as a business? It is bad business practice IMO and am not even bringing up the ridiculous hockey team building

I think Treliving has a real possibility to hold the line for Marner next summer despite a NMC.

Mitch is already overpaid and I also would prefer to move him if possible. But Treliving will know a local Ontario kid in Marner is more like to take a amount close to current instead of leaving the team over a few hundred $k extra.

Keep Willy at $8.8 mil and Matthews at $13 mil and deal Marner and cut JT salary in 1/2 or let him walk and recover all $11 mil cap to use elsewhere.

 

[socko]

Who were Tavares' linemates that year? What was league scoring like?

Was that the year Tavares was 2nd in the league in scoring?

Nylander hasn't even hit the top 10 yet.

A slower game clearly fits Tavares, unfortunately for him the league has gone in the opposite direction and he looks slower in comparison to other players. It was very noticeable when he got hurt in the Montreal series and suddenly Nylander and Kerfoot looked fast and I think the speed caught Montreal off guard a little.

 

[Notsince67]

Your leaders set the example for rest and Leafs core is worse then anyone else always looking for top $$ for themselves on the shortest contracts in order to re-up more often and ensuring their among the highest paid in the game, while on the ice they win nothing come playoff time.

I think Treliving should play hardball with Nylander and give him the teams best/fair offer like the 8 years @ $8.8 mil (Timo Meier deal) take it or leave it and if he leaves it inform him and his agent then next offer will be lower 8 years @ $8.5 mil for example. Now a GM knows where he stands and you start investigating the trade market and informing other GMs Willy is no longer untouchable in trade.

I personally would trade Nylander for a top 4 physical Dman with solid defensive awareness to his game, moving away from 4 forwards eating 1/2 your cap flawed team building strategy,

I doubt tre has any real attachments to anyone. You can't just give away willy for a d if you aren't getting close to the same lift offered back. If a guy like weegar was available, sure but if willy ain't playing ball on a long term extension or if Calgary isn't on his trade list, there is zero that can be done.

 

[JKG33]

I am wondering why nylander is being sort of treated like this Irreplaceable upper tier talent when we see responses to trade proposals or just general trade impacts

I mean when we compare his stats to other upper tier offensive wingers and look at ice time - with nylander getting lowly 2nd line minutes.. what would be his point projection with the extra ice time? Would it project to upper tier levels?

I would be curious

You can't just assume more minutes = more points.

If he were the premiere offensive threat on his team, the team that paid him as such would be sorely disappointed. He wouldn't get to have easier matchups as he'd no longer be the 3rd-4th best forward. And I say this as someone that hates Matthews and Marner even more

Agree 100%.

Matthews and Marner should not make a penny more, and in Marner's case, he should take a pay cut.

Pastrnak just put up 60 goals, 113 points and signed an 8-year deal x 11.5 mil. MacKinnon just signed for 8 x 12.6 after winning a Cup and just scored 111 points in 71 games. There's the measuring stick for Matthews -- between Pastrnak and MacKinnon. Anything more is an overpayment. Anything less than 8 years is a gross overpayment.

Marner shouldn't make a dollar more than Matt Tkachuks 8 x 9.5

Nylander is the only member of the core who deserves a raise. He has earned Timo Meier money and should get it.

What has Matthews done to show he's better than Pasta, and even with Mac? Matthews higher comparable should be Pasta.

Other than that I mostly agree with you

 

[ZEBROA]

Nylander fans,

Would you follow Nylander as he signs for 10 million a year with the Florida Panthers (The Florida Facepunchers) next season?

I follow Leafs and all Swedes on all teams. So no change at all...

 

[Notsince67]

I'd rather have Nylander at 9.5 than Marner at 12 to 14 AAV

No way Marner should be getting even a penny increase in the AAV, Matthews should get at max 13 and not a penny more. all for 8 year deals. If Matthews wants 13.5 x 5 he can f-off too.

I mean its the Leafs; Leafs will fill the arena anyway they don't require "superstars" so to speak to fill the arena i.e. ticket revenues.

If the results are the same as what has transpired last 7 years then whats the point of increasing your cost as a business? It is bad business practice IMO and am not even bringing up the ridiculous hockey team building

You don't drop a person off your roster like Marner and take the playoffs for granted. If mgmt had move Marner and the Leafs missed the playoffs, not only would all the executive be fired but Scotia arena would be in flames.
These kind of calls make some people feel like they have balls but it is so devoid of any realistic practical scenario. Who do u get for Marner? Quinn Hughes? Good fing luck. You don't even propose a trade for a superstar. Way easier to get a return on a Willy talent than a Marner because there are just so few

 

[andora]

You can't just assume more minutes = more points.

If he were the premiere offensive threat on his team, the team that paid him as such would be sorely disappointed. He wouldn't get to have easier matchups as he'd no longer be the 3rd-4th best forward. And I say this as someone that hates Matthews and Marner even more


What has Matthews done to show he's better than Pasta, and even with Mac? Matthews higher comparable should be Pasta.

Other than that I mostly agree with you

I was saying what you are saying but with sarcasm

 

[ZEBROA]

You can't just assume more minutes = more points.

If he were the premiere offensive threat on his team, the team that paid him as such would be sorely disappointed. He wouldn't get to have easier matchups as he'd no longer be the 3rd-4th best forward. And I say this as someone that hates Matthews and Marner even more


What has Matthews done to show he's better than Pasta, and even with Mac? Matthews higher comparable should be Pasta.

Other than that I mostly agree with you

If he was the premiere offensive threat, he would be paid almost the same as he is now. There would be no 11mill dudes to compare with. Only lower paid players from other teams. He would probably be better then he is as he tend to play better when he is the go to guy.

But the 33mill thev11mill dudes leave might give nylander good teammates.

 

[Boxscore]

What has Matthews done to show he's better than Pasta, and even with Mac? Matthews higher comparable should be Pasta.

Other than that I mostly agree with you

Oh, I agree. I will say, Matthews has 2 Rockets and a Hart that Pastrnak doesn't but that's it. Pasta is just as great as a goal scorer imho and he is also more intense and dynamic than Matthews. But they are extremely similar even if someone chooses to give the edge to Matthews due to the awards. As for MacKinnon, I believe he is a special beast. He's a player with a coach's mentality and inner drive that is only rivaled by someone like Crosby. If my life depended on one game, I take MacKinnon over Matthews 10 x out of 10. However, MacKinnon left money on the table with the Avs (he could have easily demanded 14 mi after winning a Cup). I'm being generous when I say Matthews could be paid on par with MacKinnon. But the Leafs have spoiled him to date and I don't see them reversing course. But he should be right between Pasta and MacKinnon and a fair deal would be 12.25 x 8.

 

[Boxscore]

Way easier to get a return on a Willy talent than a Marner because there are just so few

I actually think it has more to do with:

1. Marner's salary
2. Marner's salary expectations going forward
3. Marner's play in the playoffs when the tighter checking and physicality ramps up
4. The Leafs playoff failures, which rest mostly on the shoulders of Matthews and Marner

Trading Marner is mostly a losing proposition unless you strike gold like the Panthers did when they traded Huberdeau for Tkachuk. I don't see a one-for-one trade for equal value, mainly due to Marner's outrageous salary.

 

[Hellcat]

Actually, that's what they want but they don't have to.

It isn't really about hockey, it is about entertainment content.

I'd be fine if half the teams in the USofA ceased to exist.

What are all the professional hockey players going to do, switch to basketball?
There'd be lots of layoffs and lower paid players, but the best would still have jobs.

It would be fine if half the teams in a gate driven league stop to exists? Fine in what sense?

 

[thewave]

You don't drop a person off your roster like Marner and take the playoffs for granted. If mgmt had move Marner and the Leafs missed the playoffs, not only would all the executive be fired but Scotia arena would be in flames.
These kind of calls make some people feel like they have balls but it is so devoid of any realistic practical scenario. Who do u get for Marner? Quinn Hughes? Good fing luck. You don't even propose a trade for a superstar. Way easier to get a return on a Willy talent than a Marner because there are just so few

Our days as a contender are over if not are over as of the end of the coming season.

You really believe that Marner would be the difference maker in us making the PO or not? Do you really mean that? Asking for a friend.

Nobody knows the potential return except the GMs themselves. Sometimes blockbusters are made and they turn out pretty good.

 

[ULF_55]

It would be fine if half the teams in a gate driven league stop to exists? Fine in what sense?

Who really cares about half the teams anyway?

 

[Nineteen67]

Who really cares about half the teams anyway?

And 4 or 5, even 6 of 7 Canadian markets.

 

[Stephen]

Our days as a contender are over if not are over as of the end of the coming season.

You really believe that Marner would be the difference maker in us making the PO or not? Do you really mean that? Asking for a friend.

Nobody knows the potential return except the GMs themselves. Sometimes blockbusters are made and they turn out pretty good.

I think we may take a step back in 2024-25, but the window is open again come 2025-26 when John Tavares' contract is off the books.

 

[Nineteen67]

I think we may take a step back in 2024-25, but the window is open again come 2025-26 when John Tavares' contract is off the books.

As long as they don’t waste it on FA signings thinking that’s how you build a winner, the window may open a yr after JM contract expires.

Its early, but based on Treliving‘s early work I wouldn’t hold my breathe that he’ll do the right thing.

 

[Notsince67]

Our days as a contender are over if not are over as of the end of the coming season.

You really believe that Marner would be the difference maker in us making the PO or not? Do you really mean that? Asking for a friend.

Nobody knows the potential return except the GMs themselves. Sometimes blockbusters are made and they turn out pretty good.

Sometimes, you find out that a player plays more defensively and take less risks or more offensively and take too many risk. You also find out that the coach is over managing. Marners defensive numbers were almost too good. Better than the regular season. Ever ask yourself why he gets into shutdown mode? Kind of wierd.Tihe other thing is that goals are bleeding elsewhere with no discernable net positive contribution offensively. Seems like an bass akwards dynamic. Something is odd and it ain't qoc distribution. Marner has been a net positive contributor while the free wheeling other lines generate far less goals than they allow in. Where exactly is the tactical adjustment? I mean I would have moved Marner to driving the third line in an effort to move QoC away from Matthews. Winning that line would have been an improvement.

 

[ULF_55]

And 4 or 5, even 6 of 7 Canadian markets.

Peupa

Peupa: Your Education Journey

puckpath.com

 

[Menzinger]

Nylander isn't the one to play hardball with.

His contract was and will be fine.

Matthews and marner contracts are the issues.

What happens if they trade Nylander they play hardball with Liljegren? That'll show they mean business.

The Double Digit$ will fall right in line ...

I've never understood the logic that trading Nylander somehow means that Manrer/Matthews would be pressured into signing less

If anything it strengthen the other player's agent's hand knowing the leafs have no other options to turn to

 

[nuck]

I've never understood the logic that trading Nylander somehow means that Manrer/Matthews would be pressured into signing less

If anything it strengthen the other player's agent's hand knowing the leafs have no other options to turn to

Not so much that but if you concede on every deal, concession becomes the expectation. If you have never won a fight nobody is ever afraid of you (Happy Days on tv as well as the real world). And even if it doesn't send a powerful message, if Willie is gone then there are millions more to resign AM and MM with. A battalion of attack first forwards hasn't won a Cup since Gretzky's Oilers. The idea that overwhelming offense is the solution just doesn't prove out. Ask this year's Oilers.

Willie's exit offers the same benefit that a failure to have signed JT would have. Affordable trades, no salary retention and the ability to pivot when the need or opportunity is there. And also the idea that not only the failures and foot soldiers can get moved. Even if he signs for good deal, they are still running it back and hoping that lesser players tip the scales because the top guys couldn't. Why will that start to work now? Time for a reset.

 

[Boxscore]

I've never understood the logic that trading Nylander somehow means that Manrer/Matthews would be pressured into signing less

If anything it strengthen the other player's agent's hand knowing the leafs have no other options to turn to

I agree. If they move Nylander over contract disagreements, they'll be pressured to deliver on Matthews and Marner, and both players know this. Nylander's money will also be off the books which gives M&M the opportunity to demand more cap % because that's just how they are. What are the Leafs going to do, trade them too? I mean, if you're going to take a stand, take a stand. But that's not how it will play out.

The real driver here should be Matthews. As a "leader" he should be proactive and step up to the table, commit to the Leafs long-term, and leave money on the table so Nylander and Marner can comfortably be re-upped. Then, once Tavares is off the books, we have a nice chunk of change to add a few quality depth pieces or another impact player.

All of this could be steered in the right direction by Matthews. But that would require him to put the team first for a change.