Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[ZEBROA]

My boss also got a boss. For players to take cutbacks, i belive the management need to show they are more serious about winning then making money. This does not start with the players, it starts with the owners, GM and Coach. If they get players that is not on board with the vision it is on the management. Decide what u want get rid of everything that dont follow your plan.
Anyone know what the vision is? Other then winning the cup.

Feels like they are just putting out fires.. and not realy well..

 

[Mess]

What does it say about our locker room when players are fighting over nickels and dimes to make sure they don't get less money than they think they should? Are we not fricken seeing the obvious stuff here? This is not a team...it's a collection of talent that is more interested in competing against each other than the other team...think about that.

Willy is going to hold steadfast when it comes the the Leafs because he rightfully feels like he was the only guy to sign a reasonable deal. I don't blame him for wanting to wait to see what stupidity of a contract AM is going to sign. I bet they have it all worked out already and are just waiting to see if they can sucker Willy in to signing first before the bombshell drops on how unfriendly a deal AM signs.

This team is too toxic in the locker room for it to win anything IMO....

Your leaders set the example for rest and Leafs core is worse then anyone else always looking for top $$ for themselves on the shortest contracts in order to re-up more often and ensuring their among the highest paid in the game, while on the ice they win nothing come playoff time.

I think Treliving should play hardball with Nylander and give him the teams best/fair offer like the 8 years @ $8.8 mil (Timo Meier deal) take it or leave it and if he leaves it inform him and his agent then next offer will be lower 8 years @ $8.5 mil for example. Now a GM knows where he stands and you start investigating the trade market and informing other GMs Willy is no longer untouchable in trade.

I personally would trade Nylander for a top 4 physical Dman with solid defensive awareness to his game, moving away from 4 forwards eating 1/2 your cap flawed team building strategy,

 

[notbias]

If you want to look at just his Islander time, his best was 38 goals and 86 points.

So Nylander outperformed his best year, while playing on the second line instead of first, and playing over two minutes less per game.

Compared to JT, and considering the higher cap, Willy should be looking for $13-15M.

(I think he's worth $9-9.5, which shows how terrible the Tavares signing was.)

Who were Tavares' linemates that year? What was league scoring like?

Was that the year Tavares was 2nd in the league in scoring?

Nylander hasn't even hit the top 10 yet.

 

[ULF_55]

Nylander isn't the one to play hardball with.

His contract was and will be fine.

Matthews and marner contracts are the issues.

What happens if they trade Nylander they play hardball with Liljegren? That'll show they mean business.

The Double Digit$ will fall right in line ...

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Good thing Nylander didn't get a full NMC or the Leafs would be hooped.

Its mindboggling teams would be so willing to put all the power into the hands of the players. Once upon a time those NMC's were used to reward star players. These days every Tom, Dick, and Harry in the league gets one.

All in attempt to skim a buck off the cap.

The game has changed. The size of heart, or even the man, no longer matters. Only the size of his paycheque.

So teams look for every loophole they can to save a buck.

The NHL has become a mob operation. With all the cooking of the books that goes along with it. Money washing and gambling.

Combined with a game of hide the pea.

When a pig prays, it prays for more slop. When these guys pray, it's for more money. I should just drive by ML$E headquarters and throw my money out the window.

It would get the same results.

At least I'd have the entertainment of watching Nylander and Treliving on their heels playing tug of war over one of the bills.

 

[Mess]

Nylander isn't the one to play hardball with.

His contract was and will be fine.

Matthews and marner contracts are the issues.

What happens if they trade Nylander they play hardball with Liljegren? That'll show they mean business.

The Double Digit$ will fall right in line ...

I agree to a point that Willy is really the least of the core 4 problems with the 3 X $11 mil players and their 1 goal combined in round #2 the real issue here.

Problem being the former GM gave all 3 or the $11 mil players a full NMC contract, which now gives them all the power and control other than remaining Leafs beyond their contracts expiring,

So with Willy only having a 10 team limited NTC he is the only one (without complete approval that can be dealt). By process of elimination of available options Willy is the odd man out.

So trade Willy, hold your nose and extend Matthews the mercenary (trying to get as much term) for his outrages ask, hold the line playing hardball with Marner keeping his next salary as close to his current one and cut Tavares in 1/2 at least to extend him. After the dust settles the Leafs will only have 2 X double digit forwards.

 

[barilko05]

Put yourself in a players position. Do you think they want to go back to the "good old days" when guys like Espo and Bobby Hull and the Rocket had to work regular jobs in the off season to pay the bills? It's a business and the fans pay to see the stars. The owners know that and they do what's best for business. And if retaining top players means NMCs and overpaying to keep guys the fans want to see, you do it. And you could care less about whiny fan boys on hockey boards who's Tim foil hats are obviously way too tight.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Put yourself in a players position. Do you think they want to go back to the "good old days" when guys like Espo and Bobby Hull and the Rocket had to work regular jobs in the off season to pay the bills? It's a business and the fans pay to see the stars. The owners know that and they do what's best for business. And if retaining top players means NMCs and overpaying to keep guys the fans want to see, you do it. And you could care less about whiny fan boys on hockey boards who's Tim foil hats are obviously way too tight.

This is an oversimplification. None of these things could ever happen, fans don't want to see certain players go down in flames, and of course fans don't want to see hockey pros have to "work regular jobs" (god forbid they would have to work regular jobs).

We have these debates every year sadly because of money. As rich as TOR is a franchise, there's a cap. I wish we would be talking about tactics, skill, strength, speed, defensive play, playmaking, etc. No this pathetic league has us losing our minds over a year too long and $500,000 too much.

 

[ULF_55]

Put yourself in a players position. Do you think they want to go back to the "good old days" when guys like Espo and Bobby Hull and the Rocket had to work regular jobs in the off season to pay the bills? It's a business and the fans pay to see the stars. The owners know that and they do what's best for business. And if retaining top players means NMCs and overpaying to keep guys the fans want to see, you do it. And you could care less about whiny fan boys on hockey boards who's Tim foil hats are obviously way too tight.

Yeah, fans would lose their minds if players weren't making in a year what Timmy/Sally makes in 10 years after going to University for 4 years to become a nurse. (And that doesn't include players above 4th. line 3rd. pairing guys just barely hanging on.)

The horror of it.

Okay, now that out of the way.

Showing resolve is saying no to a Matthews, not trading a player against his will. Trading a player against his will doesn't cost anything, and isn't showing resolve, it's just low hanging fruit.

 

[JKG33]

Who were Tavares' linemates that year? What was league scoring like?

Was that the year Tavares was 2nd in the league in scoring?

Nylander hasn't even hit the top 10 yet.

I can't believe we're actually agreeing on something.

Scoring is way up from the time Tavares was an Islander where he was flirting with Art Ross trophies and consistently top 10ish in scoring.

Nylander just cracked a PPG in a league where so many players are doing it. Tavares' current contract is not a comparable in that regard at all

 

[Mess]

Put yourself in a players position. Do you think they want to go back to the "good old days" when guys like Espo and Bobby Hull and the Rocket had to work regular jobs in the off season to pay the bills? It's a business and the fans pay to see the stars. The owners know that and they do what's best for business. And if retaining top players means NMCs and overpaying to keep guys the fans want to see, you do it. And you could care less about whiny fan boys on hockey boards who's Tim foil hats are obviously way too tight.

How does winning factor into your thesis?

Diehard fans want to see the star players sure, but isn't the true objective to win the Stanley Cup?

Isn't bad contracts and untradeable players simply a fallout of unsuccessful teams and wanting change for the better?

If teams were winning then nobody would say a word about NMC or contract $$ being paid.

If my Leafs won the Stanley Cup with a bunch of Zach Hyman type players that to me is better then getting embarrassed with 1st round exits with star players on big bloated contracts and underperforming. IMO

 

[ULF_55]

I can't believe we're actually agreeing on something.

Scoring is way up from the time Tavares was an Islander where he was flirting with Art Ross trophies and consistently top 10ish in scoring.

Nylander just cracked a PPG in a league where so many players are doing it. Tavares' current contract is not a comparable in that regard at all

Tavares flirted with 50 goals ... in Toronto.

As it is Nylander this year, top 20 in points top 14 in goals.

IIRC, was 86th. in Cap, currently 97th. in Cap.
68th. amongst forwards.

Easily could be top 50, considering some of those Cap Hits are older contracts, Top 25 with players like Meier who signed an extension that includes RFA year. With the increasing Cap 9.2 makes sense.
What is Rantanen getting in 2 years?

 

[JKG33]

Tavares flirted with 50 goals ... in Toronto.

As it is Nylander this year, top 20 in points top 14 in goals.

IIRC, was 86th. in Cap, currently 97th. in Cap.
68th. amongst forwards.

Easily could be top 50, considering some of those Cap Hits are older contracts, Top 25 with players like Meier who signed an extension that includes RFA year. With the increasing Cap 9.2 makes sense.
What is Rantanen getting in 2 years?

Tavares was paid based on what he did in New York. What he's done since is largely irrelevant as far as Nylander is concerned.

I'm also not sure what Rantanen's contract two years from now has to do with Nylander? Rantanen is a far superior player and the cap will have likely gone up.

 

[ULF_55]

Tavares was paid based on what he did in New York. What he's done since is largely irrelevant as far as Nylander is concerned.

I'm also not sure what Rantanen's contract two years from now has to do with Nylander? Rantanen is a far superior player and the cap will have likely gone up.

Rantanen was just a random thought.
He should easily hit Double Digit$.
Not to mention Draisaitl ... think he'll take a team friendly again? WOW.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I can't believe we're actually agreeing on something.

Scoring is way up from the time Tavares was an Islander where he was flirting with Art Ross trophies and consistently top 10ish in scoring.

Nylander just cracked a PPG in a league where so many players are doing it. Tavares' current contract is not a comparable in that regard at all

2nd last year before Free agency: Tavares was 28th in points in the league. Nylander was 20th.

Last year before Free Agency: Tavares was 16th in the league in points. Nylander tbd.

And Tavares was "the guy" on the Island, while Nylander is relegated to the 2nd line.

I don't know... based on INTERNAL cap management, I can see Nylanders perspective here. He deserves 10-11 mil.

If he takes 9 mil he is taking a discount and I will applaud him for it.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Tavares was their best player, leader, the face of that franchise. The Isles were also terrible many of those years. It is why he he was a covetted UFA.

You're damning with faint praise there.

The best player on a terrible team doesn't mean he was great, or even good, or worth $11M, especially when he didn't fit our need.

But if you want to argue that he was worth $11M, then it just supports my point.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Nylander fans,

Would you follow Nylander as he signs for 10 million a year with the Florida Panthers (The Florida Facepunchers) next season?

 

[ULF_55]

Nylander fans,

Would you follow Nylander as he signs for 10 million a year with the Florida Panthers (The Florida Facepunchers) next season?

I am a Nylander fan ...

Well considering I've been following the Leafs for over 60 years ...

Applies to every player currently under contract or previously or subsequently ...

Crest > Rental Player

That does not preclude me having players I appreciate more than others.

 

[JKG33]

2nd last year before Free agency: Tavares was 28th in points in the league. Nylander was 20th.

Last year before Free Agency: Tavares was 16th in the league in points. Nylander tbd.

And Tavares was "the guy" on the Island, while Nylander is relegated to the 2nd line.

I don't know... based on INTERNAL cap management, I can see Nylanders perspective here. He deserves 10-11 mil.

If he takes 9 mil he is taking a discount and I will applaud him for it.

Now do their whole careers up until UFA, like the one where Tavares lost the Art Ross on the last day of the season

 

[PromisedLand]

been noticing a trend here. posts that are justifying overpayments on the next contracts are the same posters that would not say even one negative thing about dubas.

whats with that? am I seeing things or is this trend "interesting"

 

[andora]

been noticing a trend here. posts that are justifying overpayments on the next contracts are the same posters that would not say even one negative thing about dubas.

whats with that? am I seeing things or is this trend "interesting"

Dont lump me in - i have provided data that has justified the high numbers for both.. and im still guessing matthews at 13.5ish and nylander at 9.5ish

But

Dubas left me so frustrated with his torture by a 1000 papercut asset bleed i felt like slapping him

 

[Ianturnedbull]

been noticing a trend here. posts that are justifying overpayments on the next contracts are the same posters that would not say even one negative thing about dubas.

whats with that? am I seeing things or is this trend "interesting"

I miss the days when certain Leaf fans argued that Nylander was a power forward. Might have been the same individual who argued that Gardiner was a defensive defenseman. I think the problem is that some HF boardsters have burner accounts on here, so you think you're debating with 5 or 6 people. It turns out it's just 1 person.

Dont lump me in - i have provided data that has justified the high numbers for both.. and im still guessing matthews at 13.5ish and nylander at 9.5ish

But

Dubas left me so frustrated with his torture by a 1000 papercut asset bleed i felt like slapping him

Lol

 

[PromisedLand]

Nylander isn't the one to play hardball with.

His contract was and will be fine.

Matthews and marner contracts are the issues.

What happens if they trade Nylander they play hardball with Liljegren? That'll show they mean business.

The Double Digit$ will fall right in line ...

Matthews and Marner contracts are puke worthy. If I was MLSE board member I would never have approved that. and if Dubas pushed I would have told him to F-OFF and find another job.


Actually, I never would have approved dubas being a gm in the first place anyway lol

 

[andora]

I am wondering why nylander is being sort of treated like this Irreplaceable upper tier talent when we see responses to trade proposals or just general trade impacts

I mean when we compare his stats to other upper tier offensive wingers and look at ice time - with nylander getting lowly 2nd line minutes.. what would be his point projection with the extra ice time? Would it project to upper tier levels?

I would be curious

 

[ToneDog]

You're damning with faint praise there.

The best player on a terrible team doesn't mean he was great, or even good, or worth $11M, especially when he didn't fit our need.

But if you want to argue that he was worth $11M, then it just supports my point.

My original response agreed that Tavares was overpaid but IMO Tavares the UFA > Nylander the UFA. IIRC Tavares finished 2nd in the scoring race on year, beaten by Benn in his last game of the season. Nylander is great but I liken him to Kessel. Great player but not somebody you hitch the cart to.

As for $11m, no Leafs is worth that cap hit in a salary cap world today. Matty gonna get lots more than that coming off an 85 point season though and he will also be overpaid IMO.