Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[egd27]

Winning the cup comes down to luck and capitalizing on opportunity honestly. Getting the right bounces, goaltending holding up, right side of a call from the refs. The Maple Leafs have as good of a chance to win the cup as any other team.

Sure, as long as you're also winning your share of puck battles and working at least as hard as your opponent. This is generally what the Leafs have not proved they can do consistently.

 

[arso40]

Among the ten regular forwards (50+ games), Nylander was fifth in net penalties, with more drawn than taken.

Tavares was last. He also took more penalties than any Leaf forward other than Bunting (and that includes Simmonds).

Yeah I thought that comment was odd seeing as willie doesn’t really take penalties and he draws quite a bit while protecting the pucc down low nice find

 

[notbias]

Sure, as long as you're also winning your share of puck battles and working at least as hard as your opponent. This is generally what the Leafs have not proved they can do consistently.

How can you tell how hard someone is working? Honestly curious.

Hyman for example looks like he is the hardest-working skater ever or is it just that he has terrible skating?

On the other side of things Nylander skates effortlessly, does that mean he is not working as hard?

McDavid or Draisaitl don't look like they work particularly hard, but I am sure they do.

I always think stating that a specific player works harder than another is a kind of cop-out since there is no way to tell who works the hardest.

 

[egd27]

How can you tell how hard someone is working? Honestly curious.

Hyman for example looks like he is the hardest-working skater ever or is it just that he has terrible skating?

On the other side of things Nylander skates effortlessly, does that mean he is not working as hard?

McDavid or Draisaitl don't look like they work particularly hard, but I am sure they do.

I always think stating that a specific player works harder than another is a kind of cop-out since there is no way to tell who works the hardest.

Here's a few.

They get to the puck first, or at least try to.
They don't stick check all the time.
They battle hard for loose pucks and come away with them
They dictate the pace and style of the game rather than chasing it

 

[andora]

How can you tell how hard someone is working? Honestly curious.

Hyman for example looks like he is the hardest-working skater ever or is it just that he has terrible skating?

On the other side of things Nylander skates effortlessly, does that mean he is not working as hard?

McDavid or Draisaitl don't look like they work particularly hard, but I am sure they do.

I always think stating that a specific player works harder than another is a kind of cop-out since there is no way to tell who works the hardest.

Skating styles was an interesting detour to take

Here's a few.

They get to the puck first, or at least try to.
They don't stick check all the time.
They battle hard for loose pucks and come away with them
They dictate the pace and style of the game rather than chasing it

Engaging in position battles, engaging in open ice possession battles, and engaging contact in lane battles

 

[notbias]

Here's a few.

They get to the puck first, or at least try to.
They don't stick check all the time.
They battle hard for loose pucks and come away with them
They dictate the pace and style of the game rather than chasing it

So you'd say someone like Matthews outworks Hyman since he hits more, wins more battles, and dictates the pace/style more. In the Montreal series, for example, Matthews led in virtually every stat that shows "effort" for forwards in that series, I think he did last year too. That's between both teams.

Skating styles was an interesting detour to take

Well, someone like Brown or Hyman are terrible skaters but are generally considered super hardworking, and I personally don't think that they are any more hardworking than the average player, they just look like they struggle so it appears they work harder.

 

[Notsince67]

I dont think he'll ever be able to do it again (play center) and be of any use offensively.
he gets so concerned with the extra responsibilities that all offense is lost.
Marner could be a decent candidate to play C, but, he wasnt a good faceoff guy when he was in London, so, he'd really need to work on that.

Wouldnt touch Marner either at this point. While decent defensively, he cant play the centre position on the back wall

 

[andora]

So you'd say someone like Matthews outworks Hyman since he hits more, wins more battles, and dictates the pace/style more. In the Montreal series, for example, Matthews led in virtually every stat that shows "effort" for forwards in that series, I think he did last year too. That's between both teams.



Well, someone like Brown or Hyman are terrible skaters but are generally considered super hardworking, and I personally don't think that they are any more hardworking than the average player, they just look like they struggle so it appears they work harder.

Again.. odd way to go about this. Players with strong skating tend to rely on that maybe using edges and speed to try and get ahead but when 90% of second season takes place along the wall and whatever % is played with contact skating kinda becomes secondary

You are battling on the wall or about to engage in one why can stone win them all the time. Why can stone pick off so many passes and take so many pucks away along the perimeter. He skates like charles barkley..

Again.. odd way to go

 

[Notsince67]

That's surprising, I would not have guessed that. In any case, I'm with you on this one, I just can't envision Nylander as a centre as defence is not his strength (to put it mildly) so I doubt he'd ever be good at playing centre even if he wanted to (which I also doubt).

I've always thought Marner could play centre though so if we ever need to move a winger to centre, he'd be the guy I'd try there first.

Marner on the back wall doesn't play to his strength either. There are some elements that might make him good but he is an awsome winger. Why mess with that?

 

[notbias]

Again.. odd way to go about this. Players with strong skating tend to rely on that maybe using edges and speed to try and get ahead but when 90% of second season takes place along the wall and whatever % is played with contact skating kinda becomes secondary

You are battling on the wall or about to engage in one why can stone win them all the time. Why can stone pick off so many passes and take so many pucks away along the perimeter. He skates like charles barkley..

Again.. odd way to go

Again, no clue what you're talking about.

If Stone is your definition of effort, Matthews is our Stone with using body position and stick work to retrieve pucks consistently.

Again, no clue what you're talking about.

 

[Gabriel426]

How can you tell how hard someone is working? Honestly curious.

Hyman for example looks like he is the hardest-working skater ever or is it just that he has terrible skating?

On the other side of things Nylander skates effortlessly, does that mean he is not working as hard?

McDavid or Draisaitl don't look like they work particularly hard, but I am sure they do.

I always think stating that a specific player works harder than another is a kind of cop-out since there is no way to tell who works the hardest.

I agree with that 100%.

Not sure you saw the Jays in the early 90s with Devon White as CF. He rarely needed to make diving catch bc he was quick and fast enough to cover the field. Think the commentators at that time always mentioned how effortless Devon White made tough catches look like a routine fly outs.

Marner on the back wall doesn't play to his strength either. There are some elements that might make him good but he is an awsome winger. Why mess with that?

It will be interesting to see how MM can adapt playing as a C bc he certainly got the qualities to be a good one.

 

[andora]

Again, no clue what you're talking about.

If Stone is your definition of effort, Matthews is our Stone with using body position and stick work to retrieve pucks consistently.

Again, no clue what you're talking about.

As i you with bringing in an average skater like hyman 'appearing' to work harder when a great skater might be working just as hard but it doesnt look like it because his arms arent flailing around..

You picked out an ran with a narrowed point

 

[notbias]

As i you with bringing in an average skater like hyman 'appearing' to work harder when a great skater might be working just as hard but it doesnt look like it because his arms arent flailing around..

You picked out an ran with a narrowed point

Your point was basically takeaways or just players sacrificing their bodies.

You can't tell who is working the hardest, that is my point, and anyone arguing otherwise is just wrong.

 

[francis246]

Sure, as long as you're also winning your share of puck battles and working at least as hard as your opponent. This is generally what the Leafs have not proved they can do consistently.

This narrative is pretty old, Leaf’s showed they can win puck battles and stick to a game plan that works against Tampa. Even against Florida they out played florida most games. However it all comes down to that 1 costly mistake they made in each of the first three games. Florida was able to capitalize on those mistakes and convert those into goals. For me this was the most invested playoffs I’ve watched as a leafs fan since maybe 2017. Thought there was tangible progress with the team.

Hopefully they get willy signed and run it back. If not try and get Zach Werenski or Brett Pesce

 

[Notsince67]

Among the ten regular forwards (50+ games), Nylander was fifth in net penalties, with more drawn than taken.

Tavares was last. He also took more penalties than any Leaf forward other than Bunting (and that includes Simmonds).

Nylander doesn't take any penalties hence the net.
I agree though that JT is awful as is Kampf in this category.
It shouldnt be a surprise that McDavid, Pettersson and Kadri lead centres in this.
Trading Kadri was the worse trade made since the Leafs acquired Phaneuf

 

[Ianturnedbull]

How can you tell how hard someone is working? Honestly curious.

Hyman for example looks like he is the hardest-working skater ever or is it just that he has terrible skating?

On the other side of things Nylander skates effortlessly, does that mean he is not working as hard?

McDavid or Draisaitl don't look like they work particularly hard, but I am sure they do.

I always think stating that a specific player works harder than another is a kind of cop-out since there is no way to tell who works the hardest.

If you can do it at home, do it at a job, in school, etc. then you can tell who works the hardest in a hockey game. If your eyes are working and you attend games there should be no question who works the hardest.

 

[andora]

Your point was basically takeaways or just players sacrificing their bodies.

You can't tell who is working the hardest, that is my point, and anyone arguing otherwise is just wrong.

those were some of my examples

 

[Gabriel426]

Your point was basically takeaways or just players sacrificing their bodies.

You can't tell who is working the hardest, that is my point, and anyone arguing otherwise is just wrong.

I would say the Goalie works the hardest bc he is on the ice all the time, lol.

 

[Notsince67]

Yeah I thought that comment was odd seeing as willie doesn’t really take penalties and he draws quite a bit while protecting the pucc down low nice find

There is actually a draw stat to look at if anyone cares to check it out on evolving hockey.

 

[notbias]

If you can do it at home, do it at a job, in school, etc. then you can tell who works the hardest in a hockey game. If your eyes are working and you attend games there should be no question who works the hardest.

Alright, I think Marner is unquestionably one of the hardest-working players in the NHL, and I think in general the crowd that may disagree is the older crowd, who we should not be trusting their eye test as their eyes can't be trusted with their advanced age.

 

[Gabriel426]

If you can do it at home, do it at a job, in school, etc. then you can tell who works the hardest in a hockey game. If your eyes are working and you attend games there should be no question who works the hardest.

Alright, I think Marner is unquestionably one of the hardest-working players in the NHL, and I think in general the crowd that may disagree is the older crowd, who we should not be trusting their eye test as their eyes can't be trusted with their advanced age.

How hard a player skates is just one of the many things you can use to judge if the players is working hard or not.
Watching the game live Vs on TV is a huge difference.
On top of that, when discussing who is the hardest working players, off season and attending practices should also be consider a factor.

The other thing is the role the players play on the team. AM, MM, JT and Willie role on the Leafs is to produce goals. Defense is a huge bonus for them but if they can’t score, that’s quite pointless.
Just like guys like Kampf and Lafferty, their roles are to stop the opposing top lines to score and when they score goals, those are just bonus.

 

[mydnyte]

Marner on the back wall doesn't play to his strength either. There are some elements that might make him good but he is an awsome winger. Why mess with that?

would he really be that different from an Aho, or Point while being far better than either defensively? ...they are all about the same size/build with Aho likely the smallest in build

 

[Notsince67]

How hard a player skates is just one of the many things you can use to judge if the players is working hard or not.
Watching the game live Vs on TV is a huge difference.
On top of that, when discussing who is the hardest working players, off season and attending practices should also be consider a factor.

The other thing is the role the players play on the team. AM, MM, JT and Willie role on the Leafs is to produce goals. Defense is a huge bonus for them but if they can’t score, that’s quite pointless.
Just like guys like Kampf and Lafferty, their roles are to stop the opposing top lines to score and when they score goals, those are just bonus.

This isn't really true. When the opposing team has the puck, what are AM, MM, JT and WN supposed to do? Lean on a stick and wait for the defense to do something?
When the Leafs have the puck, do Lafferty & Kampf sit back and wait for the possession to turn over to spring into action?
Offense and defense is collectively everyones responsibility. A takeaway is a defensive metric. Unless you possess the puck, you aren't going to score.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Alright, I think Marner is unquestionably one of the hardest-working players in the NHL, and I think in general the crowd that may disagree is the older crowd, who we should not be trusting their eye test as their eyes can't be trusted with their advanced age.

What? Like a person with cataracts can't come on HF and discuss Marner and his hard work. Ok?

What the...

 

[Racer88]

I still can’t get the image of Willy ducking down to the ice last year to avoid a hit……I’m pretty sure that’s not working hard