Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[aingefan]

Cap space would have been useful three weeks ago. What are you going to do with it now other than pickup the leftovers no one else wanted.

It depends entirely on the trade. If there’s a good trade out there, do it. If you’re just getting a few futures in a meh trade then don’t. You’ll spend that much at the deadline for a few months of a guy half as good as Willy.

Or if you can flip the futures immediately it works too.

The return matters.

There’s still some forwards on the market who could do a reasonable job replacing what Willy offers.

I think he’ll end up signing tho. It just sounds like his ask is market value on the cap when the contract takes effect.

I’d prefer I’d either him or AM just got off their horse to be leaders and make A call. Somebody set the standard.

 

[aingefan]

Maybe they luck into the best case scenario where they are out of the playoffs by the TDL, he’s a hot commodity, and they get a good young player and high draft pick.

Then sneak into the playoffs and go on an unpredictable heater that takes them to the SCF.

Or, has that script already been written?

My ending includes Willy coming back as a UFA, tho.

I don’t think that story has been written.

 

[ULF_55]

Give Nylander Matthews term - 4mm.

 

[notDatsyuk]

2023 playoffs weak marner had 18 hits
Big strong nylander had 3. A man his size with 3 hits

If hitting people was the only criterion for winning the Cup, you would have a valid point, and it would explain why Gretzky never won anything.

 

[andora]

f*** at this point just sign them both to 1 years so when tavares finally boards his train they can recalibrate deal with the 3 stooges together and go for it

 

[notDatsyuk]

Winning the cup comes down to luck and capitalizing on opportunity honestly. Getting the right bounces, goaltending holding up, right side of a call from the refs. The Maple Leafs have as good of a chance to win the cup as any other team.

I admire your optimism.

 

[The Management]

There was almost universal jubilation here when JT decided to sign with us. I'll admit I was with that crowd at the time but with hindsight, not signing him would have been better obviously.

Yeah, I was in that crowd as well.

Such a polarizing player, because I was a fan of the signing and I've defended it in various threads on the subforum. When Tavares was signed in 2018-2019, other top line centers were making comparable amounts of money. Anze Kopitar was on an older deal, that paid him 10M AAV; Toews was another one, getting 10.5 AAV on a contract signed in 2015-2016. The prevailing mantra at the time was that good teams are built down the middle.

But then, enter the salary cap. The flat cap (0.00%) in the two covid years, coupled by very minor increases in the two following years (1.23% in 2022-2023, and now 1.21% in 2023-2024). In the year we signed Tavares, the cap went up by 6%; more than the last four to five years combined, if you include this season. This is not to make excuses, but the stagnating cap was probably not something we could have anticipated and came at a pretty terrible time (right after we handed out these big contracts).

He's still a pretty consistent center, but no question it'd be nice to have him on an $8M-$9M deal so we can distribute cap dollars elsewhere, including at 3C.

 

[nuck]

I think it's virtually impossible to win the Cup this year or next, although I will be watching and cheering all the way to a (likely) early exit.

The logical approach is to try to keep the good players, along with picks and prospects, until Tavares is gone and we can build property.

Tavares is a $3M overpay. A team should be able to ice a winning lineup with $3M in bad money. The next #2c is not going to play for $4M and meanwhile the big three are burning through their prime years and collectively asking for much more than $3M. The club really can't wait out JT.

Geo, Holl and McCabe got caved against Florida and Samy was not very good. None of the main forwards showed up for the home games and just subbing out JT wouldn't have changed any of that. A $5M winger won the Conn Smyth and Willie outscored him by 30 points in the regular season. They need to start adding some value deals now, not in 2 years and that starts with not bringing Willie over to the seven figure salary trough.

STL, Washington, and Vegas have all won with imperfect teams and the Leafs should be able to pull that off with 2 all star forwards leading the way. They need a goalie to step up and they need the coach to get better and their top 4 forwards aren't going to do that for them.

 

[notDatsyuk]

With all due respect, I think you're spreading misinformation. Who is saying that Matthews wants a 3 year deal? In no way am I saying that Nylander wants 10 million and that the innuendos are all true. Do we even know what dollar amount and term both want?

I would argue that Matthew's signing is more important because we have zero centers in our organization that can step in and play a top 6 NHL role.


Ottawa might have something to say about that. Possibly Tampa.

Agreed. Matthews and possibly Nylander are the only top 6 centers we have.

Signing both is important.

 

[ULF_55]

Tavares is a $3M overpay. A team should be able to ice a winning lineup with $3M in bad money. The next #2c is not going to play for $4M and meanwhile the big three are burning through their prime years and collectively asking for much more than $3M. The club really can't wait out JT.

Geo, Holl and McCabe got caved against Florida and Samy was not very good. None of the main forwards showed up for the home games and just subbing out JT wouldn't have changed any of that. A $5M winger won the Conn Smyth and Willie outscored him by 30 points in the regular season. They need to start adding some value deals now, not in 2 years and that starts with not bringing Willie over to the seven figure salary trough.

STL, Washington, and Vegas have all won with imperfect teams and the Leafs should be able to pull that off with 2 all star forwards leading the way. They need a goalie to step up and they need the coach to get better and their top 4 forwards aren't going to do that for them.

Yeah, we already know the Triple Double don't show up in the tough games, no sense and making another Double Digit$ player who runs away from the big bad meanies who show up in the post season!

Give Nylander Matthews' contract but $4mm less in cash.

Cuts the gap between the team's best two goal scorers from 4.6mm to 4.0mm.

 

[Nineteen67]

I mean would I bet on it? No,they haven't even played a playoff game in 12 years.

That being said show me a single person that bet on Florida to make the finals.

I will wait.

They were third in the pre-season odds. I dont have specific names, but probably someone bet on them.

Millions of $$$ get bet on the Leafs every year.

 

[BlueForever75]

If it is believed that Matthews has already committed to taking less on a smaller term, why would they not sign the deal already? Rumors about Matthews wanting no more then 5 years on a less annual salary have been out there for a month now.

So sign the damn deal so Nylander sees you have left max money on the table to help the team in the short term.

This to me makes no sense.

 

[mydnyte]

There is absolutely no indication Nylander doesn't want to sign.

And seeing almost everybody is expiring over the next 2 years you also can't say "we can't afford it"

Well I mean you could say it but it would be a lie.

to be honest, it doesnt even matter if he wants to sign or not...
if you can get a 'better' asset for him, you trade him, if you cant, then you sign him.
will we miss his scoring if we get a top pairing defender for him, yes, of course, but, maybe Robertson can finally stay healthy, or Knies picks up the slack, BUT that top end defender is likely what has kept us from going deeper in the playoffs every year.

Almost every elimination game we lost was on a defensive breakdown, and Nylander will never help stop those.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Agreed. Matthews and possibly Nylander are the only top 6 centers we have.

Signing both is important.

I would also argue that Nylander is not a center. Please refer to the play-in series vs CBJ.

 

[mydnyte]

I think you have a better shot at those two waiving tbh. I’m sure both want to be here but their younger in their careers, probably more willing to move. I’m sure both have a few destinations in mind they wouldn’t mind moving to.

But as we saw with Torey Krug. Just because you ask nicely doesn’t mean it’ll happen.

NHL needs to stop handing those clauses out like Candy. You have 4th line players with limited NTC’s. Crazy.

better off to eliminate them in the CBA ...and allow contract termination too.
if a player is good they get paid, but, if they suck, the team has very few options to get out from that deal and lots of deterrents forcing them to pay someone who doesnt deserve the deal they signed.

 

[Nineteen67]

With all due respect, I think you're spreading misinformation. Who is saying that Matthews wants a 3 year deal? In no way am I saying that Nylander wants 10 million and that the innuendos are all true. Do we even know what dollar amount and term both want?

I would argue that Matthew's signing is more important because we have zero centers in our organization that can step in and play a top 6 NHL role.


Ottawa might have something to say about that. Possibly Tampa.

Ottawa looks like they’re headed in the right direction. Chabot hasn’t developed into what I thought he’d be, but at least they have Sanderson as possible future 1D.

We assume Boston and Tampa are going to be down a little more this year and next so it would have been nice for the Leafs to be in their window to win before Buff, Ottawa and even Detroit get their teams built.

 

[ACC1224]

If it is believed that Matthews has already committed to taking less on a smaller term, why would they not sign the deal already? Rumors about Matthews wanting no more then 5 years on a less annual salary have been out there for a month now.

So sign the damn deal so Nylander sees you have left max money on the table to help the team in the short term.

This to me makes no sense.

Where is Matthews? Perhaps they are waiting for him to come to town for the signing?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Where is Matthews? Perhaps they are waiting for him to come to town for the signing?

According to David Pagnotta he's on vacation, I'd assume in Arizona but I don't know.

Marner did say both Matthews and Nylander are scheduled to be in town for his wedding

 

[andora]

According to David Pagnotta he's on vacation, I'd assume in Arizona but I don't know.

Marner did say both Matthews and Nylander are scheduled to be in town for his wedding

Should announce their signings in their speeches at marners wedding

They would have to play beer pong to determine who goes first

 

[Notsince67]

Agreed. Matthews and possibly Nylander are the only top 6 centers we have.

Signing both is important.

Nylander could play goal better than center. Great winger but center, no.

 

[Notsince67]

According to David Pagnotta he's on vacation, I'd assume in Arizona but I don't know.

Marner did say both Matthews and Nylander are scheduled to be in town for his wedding

There should be a no marriage clause in the contracts. Never saw a newlywed leaf ever have a good season including gilmour.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Thanks for the response.

What's done is done. They're all in. They may as well keep going for it now.

The return for DeBrincat (either trade) wasn't franchise altering.

I don't think the return for Nylander would be either. A SC victory would be though. If you are looking at it from a risk/reward perspective, the risk of not trading Nylander is losing out on a few picks/prospects that may, eventually, turn into something, in a few years, but almost definitely won't.

The reward may be a Stanley Cup.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. I would much rather they had built the team properly in the first place. So it would be a sustainable long term contender with deep playoffs runs every year.

Instead of just making it to the show every year and hoping everything goes absolutely right for a Cinderella run to a cup finals appearance one year where, supposedly, anything can happen.

But here we are.

Undoubtedly that is what they will do. I'm not optimistic about winning the cup with this bunch but with the high end talent we have, it would take a single owner with vision and balls to do anything but keep doing what we're doing until the core is old and overpaid and the cupboards are completely bare. Maybe that sounds cynical but at this point, it's hard to see it playing out any other way.

Yeah, I was in that crowd as well.

Such a polarizing player, because I was a fan of the signing and I've defended it in various threads on the subforum. When Tavares was signed in 2018-2019, other top line centers were making comparable amounts of money. Anze Kopitar was on an older deal, that paid him 10M AAV; Toews was another one, getting 10.5 AAV on a contract signed in 2015-2016. The prevailing mantra at the time was that good teams are built down the middle.

But then, enter the salary cap. The flat cap (0.00%) in the two covid years, coupled by very minor increases in the two following years (1.23% in 2022-2023, and now 1.21% in 2023-2024). In the year we signed Tavares, the cap went up by 6%; more than the last four to five years combined, if you include this season. This is not to make excuses, but the stagnating cap was probably not something we could have anticipated and came at a pretty terrible time (right after we handed out these big contracts).

He's still a pretty consistent center, but no question it'd be nice to have him on an $8M-$9M deal so we can distribute cap dollars elsewhere, including at 3C.

Yeah this is completely true and if it wasn't for covid, the cap might be over 90 million now and the JT contract might not even be an issue.

It's funny when people say all teams had to deal with covid, it was the same for all teams. Yeah they all had to deal with it but the timing of when we signed our stars made it so that covid really screwed us in a way that happened to no other teams. Maybe the franchise is truly cursed with bad luck, who knows.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Dubas sure left a mess.

Not sure it's that simple. He bet on the core, how many people would look at this core and not do the same?

M&M both were mediocre as Florida crushed us but most people were praising all the work Dubas did at the TDL. ROR was such a huge add that people loved, McCabe was a very good trade IMO, for a team trying to win that was a fantastic TDL and the other adds looked good as well.

The players let us down once again, should Dubas have seen that coming and traded M&M years ago?

Winning the cup comes down to luck and capitalizing on opportunity honestly. Getting the right bounces, goaltending holding up, right side of a call from the refs. The Maple Leafs have as good of a chance to win the cup as any other team.

There's some truth to this general sentiment. But it's also possible that our core consists of a bunch of dickless wonders who don't have the level of compete required to win the cup. This certainly looks like it might be the case and if it's true, then no amount of luck will be enough to go all the way.

 

[Gabriel426]

Yeah, I was in that crowd as well.

Such a polarizing player, because I was a fan of the signing and I've defended it in various threads on the subforum. When Tavares was signed in 2018-2019, other top line centers were making comparable amounts of money. Anze Kopitar was on an older deal, that paid him 10M AAV; Toews was another one, getting 10.5 AAV on a contract signed in 2015-2016. The prevailing mantra at the time was that good teams are built down the middle.

But then, enter the salary cap. The flat cap (0.00%) in the two covid years, coupled by very minor increases in the two following years (1.23% in 2022-2023, and now 1.21% in 2023-2024). In the year we signed Tavares, the cap went up by 6%; more than the last four to five years combined, if you include this season. This is not to make excuses, but the stagnating cap was probably not something we could have anticipated and came at a pretty terrible time (right after we handed out these big contracts).

He's still a pretty consistent center, but no question it'd be nice to have him on an $8M-$9M deal so we can distribute cap dollars elsewhere, including at 3C.

I am in that crowd too.

Now we look at his contract and state, he is overpaid....
But to me, he was just not as advertised. Really too quiet and not someone who rarely raised to the moment and lead the team. In short, he is not clutch at all.

 

[ACC1224]

According to David Pagnotta he's on vacation, I'd assume in Arizona but I don't know.

Marner did say both Matthews and Nylander are scheduled to be in town for his wedding

yeah I posted something about that a week or two ago.