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Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

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nuck said:
The Moneypuck stuff is interesting when cross referenced with the pp60. I think it suggests Bunting and to a lesser extent Jarnkrok are not as valuable as their scoring stats might indicate. They are not the LW I want on either of my top lines so there will hopefully be a positive correction with the new additions.

Looking at 21-22 Willie did spend a lot more time with JT. This year Willie outpointed him by 1.06 to 1.00. Last year while together it was .98 to .96. That could just be explained by AM being better beside Willie and Mitch being a bit better beside Tavares. And Willie's oz starts went up a little while Mitch's went down.

But JT's pp60 is virtually the same in both years and Mitch's is way down. Is that solely because Mitch isn't playing beside someone having an MVP type year or was JT actually putting the drag on him that Jamason is hinting he did to Nylander? So many variables. But Mitch's best season for primary assists was his breakout year with Tavares and his second best was this season where he was mostly with Tavares. It seems like the best value with him should be where he is creating the most primary assists and not necessarily when he is beside the best center.

Once you have the C-RW combos sorted out then you can look at the ? JT and MM were beside Hyman for almost all of the breakout year. Who is the winger most like Hyman, or maybe even who is least like Hyman so they don't waste everybody's time? Knies is Hyman 2.0 maybe? And Bert to Matthews because he only has to be more useful than Bunting to support another MVP. It gets less clear if Willie is moved but one supposes another winger might come back.

Edit - AM's best ever A1 per 60 was last season with Nylander as his main RW.
Click to expand...

Bertuzzi-Matthews-Nylander
Knies-Tavares-Marner

That's one hell of a top 6.
 
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nuck said:
According to Moneypuck the most frequently used line combination on the club last year was Bunting AM Willie. Bunting may not be a classic first line talent but somebody has to go into the corners. Pasta was 46 points ahead of the next highest Bruin. Johnny was 22 pts ahead of Laine. I know you are actually trying to bring Tavares in as some kind of offensive millstone around Nylander's neck but he wasn't there that much this year. Imagine Boone Jenner beside WN instead.

NHL Lines Advanced Stats

The Best Offensive and Defensive Lines in the NHL
moneypuck.com moneypuck.com
Click to expand...
We looked at that a few days ago. That combination of three had the most time together, but as pairs went, it was Matthews-Marner, Tavares-Marner, Tavares-Nylander, and then Matthews-Nylander.
 
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Wayne has more assists than anyone else has points. He holds 11 of the top 12 single season assist positions. Putting anyone on his level, including Lemieux or McDavid, is an eye roller. Marner is a joke. He's not even the best play making winger in the NHL today. That is Kucherov by a fair bit.
 
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andora said:
You are saying none of those comparables played with second liners? Really.. did you miss the list?

If we are going by this dramatic approach who can he be compared to then.. cause you start going back quite a bit
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Ok my apologies of that list debrincat would be a second liner
 
andora said:
How many of them get better matchups than the first line.. either way can you work quality of linemates into these numbers then?

Over the past 4 years

Meier - spent most of his time with hertl as his center.. then couture. Wingers barabanov balcers marleau labanc

Forsberg - duchene and granlund as centers..then arvidsson and tolvenen .. so obviously duchene and granlund had some winger time so throw johansen at center

Debrincat - strome and dach at center.. of course kane. In ottawa pinto only and then giroux and batherson

Gaudreau - lindholm and monahan.. then obviously tkachuk

Pastrnak - marchand and bergeron obviously.. but last year krejci and zacha.. hall and marchand

So.. ok
Click to expand...

arso40 said:
Ok my apologies of that list debrincat would be a second liner
Click to expand...

I dont follow.. so barabanov balcers marleau labanc arvidsson tolvenen duchene johansen granlund strome dach pinto krejci zacha are all top line players?
 
socko said:
Most Assists in One NHL Season
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His last 3 years were 72/67/53 assists in the height of the dead puck era with extreme back pain

Marner isn't even fit to clean Gretzky's jock

In terms of contracts. If Mitch asks for more then 12 ( if the cap goes up 8 mil in the next two years) he needs to gtfo.

He's still not really performing at what he's getting paid for on his current deal.

We need to have a hard line with willy at 9. Auston no clue tbh but I'll be judged miffed if it's 3x13.5 where he wins everything again.

The NMCs Dubas gave ( especially the stupid extra year for Mitch) are the dumbest contract decisions of all time. He basically invited them to bend him over at the time and again when they were about to reup while getting minimum term
 
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andora said:
I dont follow.. so barabanov balcers marleau labanc arvidsson tolvenen duchene johansen granlund strome dach pinto krejci zacha are all top line players?
Click to expand...
No I was looking at the main names and not the the names following my apologies again
 
The Apologist said:
Be honest with yourself here, so you believe there was a dearth of teams interested in Marner?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response.

Be honest with yourself, do you really think there would be not one, but two teams willing to unsolicitedly offer sheet Marner, and therefore drive up his RFA price?

I mean, that sounds like something that would benefit the agent more than those two teams.

You can find the rest of my response in the Marner thread.
 
Now obviously I don't want that to happen I want him to sign an extension, and I still think that's going to happen.

But there are a lot of you that don't want to see a Stanley Cup, no what you want is the asset management cup, which doesn't actually exist, if it did Arizona would be a the gold standard not just in hockey but among the best in all sports, the reality is they are far, FAR from it.

Other people want to see an actual championship and all we are focused on is getting better, that's all that counts.

The reality is that assuming he's healthy William Nylander is going to score 30-40 goals and be at least a PPG winger having him makes the Leafs better.

Trading him for magic beans and spare parts hurts the team both short and long term.

If you trade him it must be a hockey trade.

If you can't get more than futures you keep him and you go for it because he makes you better.
 
I agree.

The objective is to win this year.

THIS year.

That means icing the strongest roster possible. The only reason to trade Nylander now is to re-balance the roster. If they're gonna trade Nylander for Nylander-lite, they may as well just keep the one they got.

Getting weaker in a contention year is no way to win the cup.

Whatever it is they decide, I hope they figure it out soon. After five years of non-stop drama, it would be nice to watch a full season of hockey with only the relatively simple ups and downs associated with winning and losing. Instead of being preoccupied with everything off ice.

Like whether or not Nylander should be traded if he doesn't re-sign.

Good riddance to you in advance, Superstar William Nylander, if it does ever finally reach that point.
 
I think that if they cannot get an impact D and they can make the cap wor, this is the right move.

When a player “walks for nothing” the team gets cap space and the value the player brings while here. Trading expiring contracts for futures only really applies when a team is missing the playoffs.
 
We all know that Tavares is the guy that needs to go but that’s can’t happen.
As far as for Willy he is a decent player but at 10 million and Matthews potentially going to be 14 million and Marner potentially going to be 12 million and Tavares at 11 million you just can’t have all that on one team, not to mention that despite all their individual talent they just don’t cut it as a group.
We have multiple threads debating each of the cores individual merit but they need to be discussed as a collective
They just don’t work as a group and something has to give and unfortunately Willy us the only one left that they can do anything about.
 
ULF_55 said:
Yeah, kind of like saying Matthews - Messier.

Other than the grit, leadership, and will to win.
Click to expand...
Yup. Messier is the gold standard for those qualities and IMO Matthews doesn't come anywhere close to him in that regard. In fact if you compared Matthews to the top players on other teams across the league, he'd probably be below average.

Menzinger said:
And hundreds of points difference
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Exactly!

I get the Marner Gretzky comparisons. Neither is particularly big, strong or fast but they're both excellent skaters despite lack of game breaking speed and playmaking is probably the #1 skill for both but that's where it ends. Gretzky was first of all the best playmaker the game has ever seen so while Marner may be one of the best in the game today, he's still light years behind the great one. And of course Gretzky could also score goals and most importantly, in the playoffs Gretzky was every bit as dominant as he was during the regular season, perhaps even more so while Marner, yeah not so much.
 
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