Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[Dekes For Days]

Matthew Tkachuk had more 100 point seasons under his belt at time of negotiation than any Big 4 Leaf contract.

Contracts also aren't based on whether or not your peak hit some arbitrary number or not. It's also not even true, as Matthews has exceeded 100 points.
If Tkachuk had only hit 99 points, would he have deserved much less? If Marner got 1 more point last year, does he deserve much more?
Also, I guess we should blame Matthews and Marner for covid creating partial seasons and pay them less because they didn't have the chance to hit some shiny total they outpaced while Tkachuk was out there pacing for 60 points? Come on Stephen.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

To be clear, you claimed in that post that Nylander would "not accept a penny less than 11m", and that Matthews and Marner would each get 15m.
Those numbers you claimed are not accurate at all, just as people calmly explained to you back then. Nobody is here defending that kind of compensation.

I said Nylander would not accept a penny less than 11 mil if he's a 40 goal/90 point player again 2023/24. I stand by it.

I said I'd be surprised if Matthews takes less than 15 mil. We'll have to wait and see Dekes. Because right now it seems right in the ballpark of 15 mil.

It was accurate. These players showed their true colors in the rfa contract fiascos. I KNEW they would demand such dollars.

Remember when rfa Matthews was going to get a "league maximum" offer sheet? Marner was (lol) actually given (according to "some people") a 13 mil offer sheet when there was a significantly lower cap ceiling? Now you think they won't get such offers (plus cap inflation) on the open market WITHOUT losing the 4 first round picks?

There is SUCH a lack of consistency here.

 

[Sypher04]

I said I'd be surprised if Matthews takes less than 15 mil. We'll have to wait and see Dekes. Because right now it seems right in the ballpark of 15 mil.

No it doesn’t

Man I’m so tired of talking about contracts. The cap is the worst thing to happen to NHL hockey

 

[Dekes For Days]

I said Nylander would not accept a penny less than 11 mil if he's a 40 goal/90 point player again 2023/24. I stand by it.
I said I'd be surprised if Matthews takes less than 15 mil. We'll have to wait and see Dekes. Because right now it seems right in the ballpark of 15 mil.

Nylander is not getting 11m, and Matthews and Marner are not getting 15m. Nobody is arguing those amounts, other than you back then. Your estimates were inaccurate, for the same reasons people told you back then.

 

[ULF_55]

Oh for sure i was just doing the silly joke

I'd be quite happy if they both waited until after the playoffs.

Entertainment value alone would be off the charts.

 

[andora]

I'd be quite happy if they both waited until after the playoffs.

Entertainment value alone would be off the charts.

yes this is true - it would be amusing. HF should specifically add a sweating animation around some posters posts

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Nylander is not getting 11m, and Matthews and Marner are not getting 15m. Nobody is arguing those amounts, other than you back then. Your estimates were inaccurate, for the same reasons people told you back then.

So here you are saying that Marner received an offer-sheet in the ballpark of 13x7. That INCLUDES losing 4 first round picks.

Interesting Marner note

Yeah this was reported after Marner signed and the Dubas propaganda outlets in Toronto went into overdrive to use it to rationalize the unprecedented dramatic overpayment. Actual numbers are never discussed though. It was almost assuredly the two first round pick compensation, which would be...

forums.hfboards.com

Now you don't think a team will offer ufa Marner a slight raise on that cap percentage when they don't even have to give up 4 first round picks?

You also claimed that if Matthews became an rfa, he would receive offer sheets the leafs couldn't afford. Your "team" repeatedly said it would be in the 13-15 million range (again, that includes losing FOUR first round picks). But now teams won't offer him the same cap percentage while keeping the first round picks?

You're all over the place...

 

[keonsbitterness]

all good ... like i said, i am old ... old enough i remember a cup! LOL....

View attachment 727563

 

[Nineteen67]

One of the best follows on twitter

 

[Dekes For Days]

So here you are saying that Marner received an offer-sheet in the ballpark of 13x7. That INCLUDES losing 4 first round picks.

Interesting Marner note

Yeah this was reported after Marner signed and the Dubas propaganda outlets in Toronto went into overdrive to use it to rationalize the unprecedented dramatic overpayment. Actual numbers are never discussed though. It was almost assuredly the two first round pick compensation, which would be...

forums.hfboards.com

Now you don't think a team will offer ufa Marner a slight raise on that cap percentage when they don't even have to give up 4 first round picks?

You also claimed that if Matthews became an rfa, he would receive offer sheets the leafs couldn't afford. Your "team" repeatedly said it would be in the 13-15 million range (again, that includes losing FOUR first round picks). But now teams won't offer him the same cap percentage while keeping the first round picks?

Please stop misrepresenting past posts and discussions.
I didn't say anything about Matthews, and what I actually said about Marner is that based on what was reported (which included a 13m x 7 rumour), the logical conclusion is that at least one of Marner's offer sheets would have been in the four 1sts range. That doesn't automatically make the AAV that would have come with it his market value. To steal Marner from Toronto, they would have needed to overpay on his market value - and it wouldn't have reached near 15m anyway. Also, one team willing to give up draft picks to add a 21 year old superstar that is signed long-term through their prime years (with the potential for more) and trending as one of the best players in the cap era doesn't equate to that player getting an automatic 15m contract from that team or anybody else more than half a decade later for their latter prime and post-prime years.

Nylander is not getting 11m+, and Matthews and Marner are not getting 15m. Your estimates were inaccurate, and nobody other than you has ever argued for those amounts.

 

[ULF_55]

Matthew Tkachuk had more 100 point seasons under his belt at time of negotiation than any Big 4 Leaf contract. In fact, his 2x 100 point seasons is more than all 100 point seasons put up by Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares combined.

Be nice if Tkachuk's contract had some influence on Leafs deals, probably save the Leafs about 5-6 million, combined on their 3 players they'll hope to re-sign.

 

[notbias]

Matthew Tkachuk had more 100 point seasons under his belt at time of negotiation than any Big 4 Leaf contract. In fact, his 2x 100 point seasons is more than all 100 point seasons put up by Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares combined.

Do you think maybe they took his playoff production into consideration?

15pts in 27 games at signing is pretty terrible.

Also, his defensive game is closer to Nylander than Matthews/Marner.

 

[andora]

Do you think maybe they took his playoff production into consideration?

15pts in 27 games at signing is pretty terrible.

Also, his defensive game is closer to Nylander than Matthews/Marner.

Not supposed to pay based on playoffs

 

[notbias]

Not supposed to pay based on playoffs

maybe they thought he was such a playoff no-show that they would? Maybe it was his lack of defensive play? Maybe it was the lack of cap increase that changed the market? Maybe they thought he was a finished product where Marner/Matthews had more potential? There could be a lot of reasons. Speaking only on point production without context seems silly.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Please stop misrepresenting past posts and discussions.
I didn't say anything about Matthews, and what I actually said about Marner is that based on what was reported (which included a 13m x 7 rumour), the logical conclusion is that at least one of Marner's offer sheets would have been in the four 1sts range. That doesn't automatically make the AAV that would have come with it his market value. To steal Marner from Toronto, they would have needed to overpay on his market value - and it wouldn't have reached near 15m anyway. Also, one team willing to give up draft picks to add a 21 year old superstar that is signed long-term through their prime years (with the potential for more) and trending as one of the best players in the cap era doesn't equate to that player getting an automatic 15m contract from that team or anybody else more than half a decade later for their latter prime and post-prime years.

Nylander is not getting 11m+, and Matthews and Marner are not getting 15m. Your estimates were inaccurate, and nobody other than you has ever argued for those amounts.

When you repeatedly said that Matthews couldn’t go rfa because the offer sheets would be at numbers the leafs couldn’t afford, what exactly were you saying those numbers were?

And wouldn’t he get substantially more than that today given that the team doesn’t have to give up 4 first round picks?

 

[andora]

maybe they thought he was such a playoff no-show that they would? Maybe it was his lack of defensive play? Maybe it was the lack of cap increase that changed the market? Maybe they thought he was a finished product where Marner/Matthews had more potential? There could be a lot of reasons. Speaking only on point production without context seems silly.

of course it does, and i will always believe playoff performances are taken into effect.. it just flip flops a lot

 

[ACC1224]

of course it does, and i will always believe playoff performances are taken into effect.. it just flip flops a lot

There are no rules, anything can be brought into a negotiation.
Naive to think otherwise.

 

[Dekes For Days]

When you repeatedly said that Matthews couldn’t go rfa because the offer sheets would be at numbers the leafs couldn’t afford, what exactly were you saying those numbers were?
And wouldn’t he get substantially more than that today given that the team doesn’t have to give up 4 first round picks?

I didn't say that. I've said before that letting Matthews and Marner both get to offer sheet status would have been bad. I've said that Matthews likely would have at least been given offer sheets that wouldn't have been good for us. That's pretty much the extent of what I've said on that.
And no, the assets a team may be willing to give up in an offer sheet has zero relevance to a player's UFA contract a half decade later.
The draft picks are the price of stealing a restricted superstar at age 21 and getting their best years as well.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Why doesn't Treliving let Nylander and his agent see what is out there? Maybe the grass isn't greener on the other side. Quite frankly, part of the reason why my interest in this team has waned is because for the last 5 years this organization has been paying more for less.

Sick of hearing fans justify these overpayments as well. Matthews should not be making more than McDavid, or Mackinnon for that matter. Marner is not at Rantanen's level. Nylander isn't worth more than DeBrincat or Meier.

I don't care about corsi, or 'elite level zone entries', I care about winning championships. You pay your guys after they win, not based on their potential to win. This organization needs to find its self esteem and remember the team always comes before individual players.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Elizabeth said it best ..

What they make is ...

"I have said no such thing. I am only resolved to act in that manner, which will, in my own opinion, constitute my happiness, without reference to you, or to any person so wholly unconnected with me."

Always liked her.

Hold on, I'm being told that's the wrong Elizabeth.

of course it does, and i will always believe playoff performances are taken into effect.. it just flip flops a lot

Playoff success seems to be taken into effect while anything else regarding playoffs is pretty much thrown out the window.

 

[Bust]

Contracts aren't based on one season. Sample size has value, and you're not going to be paid anything close to a consistent 100 point player when you were pacing for 60 points the season prior.

Unless we’re discussing Mitch Marner’s contract, of course…

 

[Racer88]

Neither Matthews nor Nylander have to sign based on projected Cap.

They can sign next year after the Cap is announced, which will be before July 1st.

If matthews isn’t signed before the season starts everyone involved should be fired

Always liked her.

Hold on, I'm being told that's the wrong Elizabeth.


Playoff success seems to be taken into effect while anything else regarding playoffs is pretty much thrown out the window.

There is nothing wrong with that Elizabeth

 

[A1LeafNation]

There are no rules, anything can be brought into a negotiation.
Naive to think otherwise.

Hopefully they bring in the current HFboard polls on top 25 wingers LOL.

Nylander nowhere to be found yet, and some ppl think he is a line driver or worth 11m.

 

[Racer88]

Contracts also aren't based on whether or not your peak hit some arbitrary number or not. It's also not even true, as Matthews has exceeded 100 points.
If Tkachuk had only hit 99 points, would he have deserved much less? If Marner got 1 more point last year, does he deserve much more?
Also, I guess we should blame Matthews and Marner for covid creating partial seasons and pay them less because they didn't have the chance to hit some shiny total they outpaced while Tkachuk was out there pacing for 60 points? Come on Stephen.

I’m pretty sure Covid affected all the teams equally

 

[Dekes For Days]

Unless we’re discussing Mitch Marner’s contract, of course…

No, same thing applies for Marner. He was paid based on his entire ELC, which was one of the best in the entire cap era, not just the final season.

I’m pretty sure Covid affected all the teams equally

It didn't, but that's not the point. In this silly game of counting X point seasons, it hurts players who played at that level in the seasons covid cut short relative to those who didn't.