Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[ULF_55]

Hopefully they bring in the current HFboard polls on top 25 wingers LOL.

Nylander nowhere to be found yet, and some ppl think he is a line driver or worth 11m.

Yep, and Oilers are going to bring in the Draisaitl reviews from the Leafs board.

He'll be lucky to get a Kadri deal.

 

[kb]

Hopefully they bring in the current HFboard polls on top 25 wingers LOL.

Nylander nowhere to be found yet, and some ppl think he is a line driver or worth 11m.

Strawman​

By exaggerating, misrepresenting, or just completely fabricating someone's argument, it's much easier to present your own position as being reasonable, but this kind of intellectual dishonesty only serves to undermine any attempt at honest, rational debate.

 

[egd27]

The draft picks are the price of stealing a restricted superstar at age 21 and getting their best years as well.

So their best years are behind them? oh great

 

[Bust]

No, same thing applies for Marner. He was paid based on his entire ELC, which was one of the best in the entire cap era, not just the final season.

Marner had a great ELC. He was definitely put in a favourable position line-mate wise and delivered early on.

I however don’t agree that is worth 10.9M - especially considering, a very comparable Mikko Rantanen signed for 1.7M cheaper for the same term.

I hope we can reasonably sign Willy for 5 years.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So their best years are behind them? oh great

No, we're closer to halfway through what will likely be their best years.

Marner had a great ELC. He was definitely put in a favourable position line-mate wise and delivered early on.
I however don’t agree that is worth 10.9M - especially considering, a very comparable Mikko Rantanen signed for 1.7M cheaper for the same term.

He was actually put in a lot of unfavourable positions that are historically unprecedented for that caliber of player. Intentionally kept away from the team's best players, to play with the likes of Bozak and JVR. Split PPs and neutered PP time, despite being one of the best in the cap era at it. He was always the best player on his line.
It's unfortunate, because under normal treatment and circumstances for a player of his caliber, he would have been putting up PPG+ seasons since year 1.
Rantanen is the one that benefited from a superior player than him, and he was perceived to be better than he was back then because he got pumped full of so much more PP time.
If you'd like a comparison, feel free to tag me in the Marner thread.

I hope we can reasonably sign Willy for 5 years.

Yes, hopefully, for at least that long. It sounds like Nylander may be open to an 8 year deal.

 

[Racer88]

No, same thing applies for Marner. He was paid based on his entire ELC, which was one of the best in the entire cap era, not just the final season.

It didn't, but that's not the point. In this silly game of counting X point seasons, it hurts players who played at that level in the seasons covid cut short relative to those who didn't.

It did. Every team had equal benefit under the NHL’s operating procedures during the Covid period.
if individual teams had poor outcomes such as cap distribution and contract that’s on the teams. Only 1 GM spend 50% of his cap on 4 skilled but soft forwards.
Thats on Dubas not Covid

 

[Confucius]

I don't think there's any relationship between Leafs salaries and the rest of the NHL.

So it’s time to right the ship or do we just move on into perpetuity overpaying. Sometimes I wear the tinfoil hat and think back when we didn’t have the best players in the league, mgmt decided to pay our best like they were the best in the league to create the illusion that we do indeed have the best.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It did. Every team had equal benefit under the NHL’s operating procedures during the Covid period.

Different teams are in different stages of team-building, contracts, etc. at any given time. A team is always going to be hurt more by an unexpected multi-year flat cap when a significant portion of the cap was allocated long-term directly prior to it happening. But again, what teams were hurt by covid by how much wasn't the point being discussed. To consider, for example, Nylander a 40 point player in 2020-2021 wouldn't be an accurate representation of their quality according to what that usually means. That has nothing to do with Nylander's quality. That's just covid. An example of one of the reasons this whole X point player thing is so bad at accurately representing a player.

 

[Metroid]

Give willy 10 marner 11 Matthews 12. All 3 will have more than enough money.... Sorta helps team with cap (maybe I duno) and like f*** all that noise/who shit cuz all that money on 8 year deals is a shit ton of money.

 

[BM14]

Wrong on all points. Sorry.

Ok Coach Quinn.

 

[Stephen]

So it’s time to right the ship or do we just move on into perpetuity overpaying. Sometimes I wear the tinfoil hat and think back when we didn’t have the best players in the league, mgmt decided to pay our best like they were the best in the league to create the illusion that we do indeed have the best.

In the end I think we overpay and squeeze lower in the lineup, which is a necessary evil unless you want to go back to the Stone Age style rebuild… but where I do take exception is when we are signing so many uncompetitive deals with the core group and still trying to make a virtue of it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

In the end I think we overpay and squeeze lower in the lineup, which is a necessary evil unless you want to go back to the Stone Age style rebuild… but where I do take exception is when we are signing so many uncompetitive deals with the core group and still trying to make a virtue of it.

I agree we probably overpay in the end.

I don't agree that it's a necessary evil.

If we had a GM with balls, Marner would be gone and the entitlement party would be over. And until it's over, the chances of this team winning the cup is near zero.

 

[Stephen]

I agree we probably overpay in the end.

I don't agree that it's a necessary evil.

If we had a GM with balls, Marner would be gone and the entitlement party would be over. And until it's over, the chances of this team winning the cup is near zero.

I understand the frustration but we also have to just make good decisions when it’s time to make good decisions and not get that emotional or personal about it. If and when we move any of them it has to be good business and not cause we want to take a flamethrower to the Dubas project.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I understand the frustration but we also have to just make good decisions when it’s time to make good decisions and not get that emotional or personal about it. If and when we move any of them it has to be good business and not cause we want to take a flamethrower to the Dubas project.

I believe M&M are going to demand massive contracts and if we bend over for them, the chances of winning a cup with them are slim and none. That has nothing to with emotion, it has everything to do with the fact that this core has one playoff round win in so many tries, I can't be bothered to add them up any more.

Decision should never be based on emotion, that goes without saying. And if you want to see what emotions look like, take a look at all the crying in the Marner appreciation thread whenever someone dares to criticize the "super crazy elite" Marner.

 

[Stephen]

I believe M&M are going to demand massive contracts and if we bend over for them, the chances of winning a cup with them are slim and none. That has nothing to with emotion, it has everything to do with the fact that this core has one playoff round win in so many tries, I can't be bothered to add them up any more.

Decision should never be based on emotion, that goes without saying. And if you want to see what emotions look like, take a look at all the crying in the Marner appreciation thread whenever someone dares to criticize the "super crazy elite" Marner.

At the end of the day, we can sign these guys and reserve the right to trade some of them down the road. Getting a deal done is just as much about extending the amount of time you have to control the asset as any mutual commitment.

I think Matthews is still the foundation of the team. Tavares is a boat anchor and the other two, it just comes down to what the return in a trade.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

What exactly is a discount in Nylander’s eyes?

 

[Nineteen67]

I believe M&M are going to demand massive contracts and if we bend over for them, the chances of winning a cup with them are slim and none. That has nothing to with emotion, it has everything to do with the fact that this core has one playoff round win in so many tries, I can't be bothered to add them up any more.

Decision should never be based on emotion, that goes without saying. And if you want to see what emotions look like, take a look at all the crying in the Marner appreciation thread whenever someone dares to criticize the "super crazy elite" Marner.

In the right situation I could see Marner in a Cup final. I don’t see Matthews ever getting there.

 

[Jojalu]

So Nylander (not that I agree) has been the line driver and the 2nd line has been shit. Marner and Matthews are line drivers.

I can't see many ppl saying Nylander is a line driver.

I would argue Nylander creates chances all by himself so he kind of drives the line but he was not that great with JT last year

 

[Gary Nylund]

At the end of the day, we can sign these guys and reserve the right to trade some of them down the road. Getting a deal done is just as much about extending the amount of time you have to control the asset as any mutual commitment.

I think Matthews is still the foundation of the team. Tavares is a boat anchor and the other two, it just comes down to what the return in a trade.

Signing them and then trading them is an idea, doesn't sound like a great one though. If their cap hits are enormous that will limit any return and that's not even getting into the NMC's they will undoubtedly be demanding. It will also be another 2 years before Marner's next contract kicks in, it feels we're just screwed no matter how we we play this. Unless of course M&M are willing to sign reasonable deals, doesn't seem likely though.

In the right situation I could see Marner in a Cup final. I don’t see Matthews ever getting there.

Anyone can be in a cup final, it's a matter of being on the right team. I don't see an overpaid M&M duo leading this team to a cup final, that's what I would say.

 

[Thornbury]

Marner had a great ELC. He was definitely put in a favourable position line-mate wise and delivered early on.

I however don’t agree that is worth 10.9M - especially considering, a very comparable Mikko Rantanen signed for 1.7M cheaper for the same term.

I hope we can reasonably sign Willy for 5 years.

The good news is I assume Mitch will definitely not get a big raise on his next contract, from us or anybody else.

 

[Nineteen67]

Signing them and then trading them is an idea, doesn't sound like a great one though. If their cap hits are enormous that will limit any return and that's not even getting into the NMC's they will undoubtedly be demanding. It will also be another 2 years before Marner's next contract kicks in, it feels we're just screwed no matter how we we play this. Unless of course M&M are willing to sign reasonable deals, doesn't seem likely though.


Anyone can be in a cup final, it's a matter of being on the right team. I don't see an overpaid M&M duo leading this team to a cup final, that's what I would say.

I don’t either. Mainly because of Matthews, IMO.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The good news is I assume Mitch will definitely not get a big raise on his next contract, from us or anybody else.

Any raise is too much IMO. I'm wondering what kind of a raise you think he will get from us?

I don’t either. Mainly because of Matthews, IMO.

For me it's mainly because of Marner, honorable mention to Matthews though for sure and the thought of both these guys getting raises from us is just so gross.

 

[the Mighty Oak]

100% agree with Willie.

 

[A1LeafNation]

I would argue Nylander creates chances all by himself so he kind of drives the line but he was not that great with JT last year

Lots of good players create chances by themselves, but they aren't necessarily line drivers.

On a contender, Nylander isn't the primary player on his line, he needs a better center to play with or his line is shit.

Marner is the primary player on his line on a contender, he doesn't need to play with a better center. He is what I would consider a line driver.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

The rumour now is that Matthews isn't gonna sign until Nylander signs.

Good Lord.

Does Matthews really think Nylander is gonna sign first? And does this team not have any leaders for anything? Who cares who goes first anyway?

Just get it done and move on.

The longer this Nylander (and Matthews) negotiation drags out the bigger the distraction it will become. And make no mistake about it, this will be a major distraction if not taken care of before the season starts. Which is why it's so important they get it done soon.

There's already enough spotlight on this team.

Nylander is a good player. But he's only a winger. And he's the fifth best player on this team.

I can't think of a single argument that he should be earning the same as his much better teammates.

Including Matthews.