Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[centipede2233]

Weird how Meier's $8.8 AAV over 8 - and only averages roughly a whopping 0.5 PPG in the playoffs - is somehow being held up as (or talked about as) "taking less".

Why wouldn't Willie ask for more?? He's done more when it counts, plus during the regular season.

Yes nylander has been a more prolific offence contributor, but Meier was playing with hertl and couture while nylander plays with taveras, matthews and marner(including PP). I feel like meier’s numbers are somewhat depressed and Nylander’s somewhat inflated. Add in the fact Meier doesn’t have the habit of making “business decision” in the playoffs by avoiding the walls and corners, Nylander is close to meier’s AAV imo.

 

[kb]

Willy wants 10 million though.

Says the media only, whose only reason for existing today is to lie and divide/enrage the population.

No other reason.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yes nylander has been a more prolific offence contributor, but Meier was playing with hertl and couture while nylander plays with taveras, matthews and marner(including PP). I feel like meier’s numbers are somewhat depressed and Nylander’s somewhat inflated. Add in the fact Meier doesn’t have the habit of making “business decision” in the playoffs by avoiding the walls and corners, Nylander is close to meier’s AAV imo.

I'm not sure why we're pretending like playing primarily with Hertl, Couture, and Karlsson, or the likes of Hughes and Bratt in NJ, is offensively limiting.
Also not super relevant to contracts, but since you mentioned it, Nylander does not avoid walls or corners, and he has been better in the playoffs.

 

[ULF_55]

Debrincat has a pair of 40 goals seasons already.

View attachment 727592

Trevliving is offering Willy +$1 Mil more $8.8 mil than that. Time for WN to drop his asking price as he has less NHL goals than Alex and played 71 more games.

View attachment 727593

Yep, Detroit might have got a deal there. But didn't seem like there was a big demand for Debrincat, although maybe Debrincat only wanted to play at home? Kind of hard to demand both your location and your salary when you are RFA.

 

[centipede2233]

I'm not sure why we're pretending like playing primarily with Hertl, Couture, and Karlsson, or the likes of Hughes and Bratt in NJ, is offensively limiting.
Also not super relevant to contracts, but since you mentioned it, Nylander does not avoid walls or corners, and he has been better in the playoffs.

He did vs McDonough in the Tampa series in 2022….

 

[Dekes For Days]

He did vs McDonough in the Tampa series in 2022….

No, he didn't. I assume you're talking about that one play at the end of game 7 that a few people like to misrepresent, where he brought the puck in the zone, dumped it into the corner, cut off the boards, and tried to poke it past McDonagh to Tavares on the other side, before battling along the wall and getting the puck back for the Leafs. A pretty normal play, where Nylander came out on top.

 

[Jojalu]

Tkachuk just signed for $9.5. And we've been overpaying guys for 4 years now and they still haven't caught up with the world in hyper-inflation.. Just f-ing ridiculous how bad Dubas is/was.

It's no secret that you dislike Dubas, which is fine but I am curious to what exactly you think he did wrong?

I keep reading he blew the best chance the Leafs had of winning, but at the same time they will never win because the Core 4 he inherited are too soft and greedy and entitled to win.

Both can't be true. Either the 4 suck, in which case Dubas did not rruin any chance, or the 4 are fine and he did a poor job surrounding them. Which he didn't.

I do believe he overpayed them coming out of their ELC's which would have worked out sans Covid and he had to scramble afterwards but I still don't see how he blew anything if the whole thing was rotten to begin with

 

[Gary Nylund]

In all fairness, Marner averaged 1.24 PPG in this past regular season, and 1.27 PPG in the playoffs.

Matthews was on a 1.38 PPG pace before getting his wrist damaged again in Game 3 of the Florida series after an injury plagued 1.15 PPG in the regular season.

Just adding context. I do believe both want to do far better though.

Yeah Marner's raw point totals were pretty good. More context though is that he got a ton of points the first two playoff games against TB, then dropped off, the entire series against FLA the production wasn't there and for me personally, game 3 was just so horrible that I can't even put into words how much his stock dropped for me after that performance. He played so well for such a long time and I had such high hopes for him in these playoffs but when the chips are down and the pressure is jacked up, it seems like Marner isn't a player you can count on. JMHO.

Matthews is so hard to figure out. I don't know when he's injured and when he's not and it seems like he just can't stay at 100% for long stretches. It's hard to have a ton of faith in him either at this point, most likely scenario is that the Leafs will pay him record breaking amounts of money and not get a good return on that investment, at least that's what is feels like ATM, we'll see.

 

[ULF_55]

Yeah Marner's raw point totals were pretty good. More context though is that he got a ton of points the first two playoff games against TB, then dropped off, the entire series against FLA the production wasn't there and for me personally, game 3 was just so horrible that I can't even put into words how much his stock dropped for me after that performance. He played so well for such a long time and I had such high hopes for him in these playoffs but when the chips are down and the pressure is jacked up, it seems like Marner isn't a player you can count on. JMHO.

Matthews is so hard to figure out. I don't know when he's injured and when he's not and it seems like he just can't stay at 100% for long stretches. It's hard to have a ton of faith in him either at this point, most likely scenario is that the Leafs will pay him record breaking amounts of money and not get a good return on that investment, at least that's what is feels like ATM, we'll see.

Kind of funny that people highlight Nylander for a play he tried to finesse as the definition of the player, and yet marner's complete no-show game 3 gets swept away (by some "fans").

marner, Matthews, Tavares combine for 1 goal against Florida, but highlight his points total from a previous round as an indicator he's good in the playoffs. The Montreal series where marner and Matthews scored a combined 1 goal gets blamed on going face to face against Price, who Nylander beat 5 times.

 

[Stephen]

Weird how Meier's $8.8 AAV over 8 - and only averages roughly a whopping 0.5 PPG in the playoffs - is somehow being held up as (or talked about as) "taking less".

Why wouldn't Willie ask for more?? He's done more when it counts, plus during the regular season.

For me, the disconnect are fans who seem to welcome in-house overpays, as if cheering for the price of gas going up.

 

[Nineteen67]

He did vs McDonough in the Tampa series in 2022….

I couldnt believe what I saw when that happened. It told me that winning is OK, but it’s not paramount.

It was a great snow shower, although it’s too bad he didn’t get in there with his body and get the puck to Spezza behind the net with a wide open winger in the slot. Why even dump it in if you’re not going 100% to get it back?

For a lot of players, trying to get their name on the Cup is so important that they try and play with broken bones.

 

[Nineteen67]

Ottawa was able to get a first and couple of players for Debrincat.
Nylander is better than Debrincat, so the Leafs should be able to do OK if they are trading him. Trouble is, there are not many trading partners.

 

[Nineteen67]

Kind of funny that people highlight Nylander for a play he tried to finesse as the definition of the player, and yet marner's complete no-show game 3 gets swept away.

marner, Matthews, Tavares combine for 1 goal against Florida, but highlight his points total from a previous round as an indicator he's good in the playoffs. The Montreal series where marner and Matthews scored a combined 1 goal gets blamed on going face to face against Price, who Nylander beat 5 times.

None of these guys have proven to be playoff warriors, which is why it’s dangerous to bring them all back and rely on Kampf, Domi and Bertuzzi to carry them through.

Having said that Nylander is probably the best of the four, but he might be the easiest to trade.

 

[ULF_55]

For me, the disconnect are fans who seem to welcome in-house overpays, as if cheering for the price of gas going up.

What's the saying, a rising tide lifts all boats?

Within the team there are going to be tiers, Leafs have Tier 1 players making double digits, but the other players do not exist in isolation, the Tier 2 are tied (tide) to Tier 1.

The team should not be surprised that when players gain some leverage they'll use it just like when the team uses its leverage.

 

[13pacheco31]

Ottawa was able to get a first and couple of players for Debrincat.
Nylander is better than Debrincat, so the Leafs should be able to do OK if they are trading him. Trouble is, there are not many trading partners.

The two trades are not really comparable. Ot would all be contingent on if they can do a sign and trade

 

[Gary Nylund]

Kind of funny that people highlight Nylander for a play he tried to finesse as the definition of the player, and yet marner's complete no-show game 3 gets swept away.

marner, Matthews, Tavares combine for 1 goal against Florida, but highlight his points total from a previous round as an indicator he's good in the playoffs. The Montreal series where marner and Matthews scored a combined 1 goal gets blamed on going face to face against Price, who Nylander beat 5 times.

Very well said! I've seen so many posts pointing to a single play by Nylander as "proof" that he sucks but Marner was just bloody awful for an entire game, and not just any game, but a do or die situation that was arguably the most important game of the year.

If Nylander deserves all the hate directed towards him for a play here and there where he's finessing instead of being physical, then Marner deserves to be laughed off the team for his pitiful performance from start to finish in game 3. Now that was a full 60 minute "effort" that I'm not likely to ever forget.

 

[ACC1224]

Kind of funny that people highlight Nylander for a play he tried to finesse as the definition of the player, and yet marner's complete no-show game 3 gets swept away.

marner, Matthews, Tavares combine for 1 goal against Florida, but highlight his points total from a previous round as an indicator he's good in the playoffs. The Montreal series where marner and Matthews scored a combined 1 goal gets blamed on going face to face against Price, who Nylander beat 5 times.

Swept away. There are people here that still weep over this daily and repeat it so often they sound like the 'Rain Man'.

Nylander is defined as soft and avoiding contact because that is who he is. Not because of one play but over his entire career.

 

[ULF_55]

Very well said! I've seen so many posts pointing to a single play by Nylander as "proof" that he sucks but Marner was just bloody awful for an entire game, and not just any game, but a do or die situation that was arguably the most important game of the year.

If Nylander deserves all the hate directed towards him for a play here and there where he's finessing instead of being physical, then Marner deserves to be laughed off the team for his pitiful performance from start to finish in game 3. Now that was a full 60 minute "effort" that I'm not likely to ever forget.

I don't think Nylander gets stage fright. Heck, he was looking forward to the big games and got taking to task by reporters for saying those games were going to be fun. That's the attitude I'd take over being intimidated to the point of freezing up. And for the Matthews-marner combination it isn't a one time thing, it's clear as day in 2 series.

 

[Dekes For Days]

For me, the disconnect are fans who seem to welcome in-house overpays, as if cheering for the price of gas going up.

Being accepting of appropriate contracts relative to the quality and impact the players we have provide is not "welcoming in-house overpays".

 

[ULF_55]

Swept away. There are people here that still weep over this daily and repeat it so often they sound like the 'Rain Man'.

Nylander is defined as soft and avoiding contact because that is who he is. Not because of one play but over his entire career.

He isn't the only high priced Leafs player who avoids contact, but perhaps the others are smarter and aren't going to be first to the puck in corners. If you don't get there first you don't have to take the hit, but get credited for a hit when you engage.

 

[Notsince67]

Swept away. There are people here that still weep over this daily and repeat it so often they sound like the 'Rain Man'.

Nylander is defined as soft and avoiding contact because that is who he is. Not because of one play but over his entire career.

Marner has 1 bad game, gets mentioned 1000 times so there is sample size to compare against Willys days off.

He isn't the only high priced Leafs player who avoids contact, but perhaps the others are smarter and aren't going to be first to the puck in corners. If you don't get there first you don't have to take the hit, but get credited for a hit when you engage.

Is this real or a theory?

 

[Dekes For Days]

It was a great snow shower, although it’s too bad he didn’t get in there with his body and get the puck to Spezza behind the net with a wide open winger in the slot.

Spezza wasn't behind the net. Tavares was, and nobody was in the slot.
And get the puck to Tavares behind the net was exactly what Nylander was trying to do, while simultaneously blocking off the side wall to prevent a clear. Pretty normal play.
The funniest part is, about 1 second later, Nylander literally did get in there with his body, win the board battle, and get the puck to Spezza. Funny how that part gets forgotten.

 

[Mess]

When this is your GM, then "welcoming in-house overpays" is standard operating practice.

That will be his legacy forever in Toronto.

Oh, sweet irony !! When he went to negotiate his own "in-house-overpay" he got himself fired and shown the door.

Hopefully now that Leafs have a real GM the "welcoming in-house overpays". ship has sailed, and we attempt to bring Leafs players back in line with the rest of the NHL as best as possible knowing that past mistakes can't be completely undone.

 

[notDatsyuk]

You brought up the JT contract in your argument for your point. You can't compare when it was signed to today; that's not relevant.

And no, this isn't PS5. Nylander cannot play centre in the NHL. The guy has zero clue or drive to be in his own zone. There is so much more to playing C than FO %.

Wrong on all points. Sorry.

 

[Duffman955]

I think Nylander gets traded.

We can't be spending 20 mil on 2 RW, and have no money for defense.

I don't see it. As much as I love Willy, and he's actually a really good playoff performer, I don't think there's room.