Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[BM14]

Yes, but when and for what? If we sign Nylander to any contract, the cap hit doesn't take effect until July 2024. So it has no impact on anything for another calendar year...

A Nylander with term is worth more than a Nylander without term, so it's a more valuable asset if you're trading the guy.

Also a re-signed Nylander gives you more options with a Mitch Marner negotiation.

So yes, maybe we trade him one day. But it doesn't have to be right now, and you would be doing it to benefit the team. Not to punish anyone. Be smart.

Something around Pesce, ideally.

That's the RHD this team has been lacking for 20 years.

The team would be better.

Look, I'm an Eagles fan and am spoiled with a mastermind GM in Howie Roseman who manipulates the cap better than anyone else, but, the cap in the NHL can can only be kicked so far down the road.

If this team didn't have 34 or 16, sure....give him $9.5 but he's not and never will be the 'guy' here.

 

[Stephen]

Why didn’t Debrincat just hold out under the threat of a 10 mil offer sheet from a big market team then, forcing a massive overpayment that holds his rfa rights? 40 goal point per game player…. That’s what the players on ONE special team would have done…

I don't feel like DeBrincat forcing his way out of Ottawa was any more noble of a gesture towards his team than what our guys do...

 

[Mess]

I don't feel like DeBrincat forcing his way out of Ottawa was any more noble of a gesture towards his team than what our guys do...

Can you imagine one of the core 4 saying " I don't want to screw over the Leafs with a big bloated cap busting contract, so its in the best interest of the team to trade me for the best return" ..

Joking aside it would make quite a statement by the new GM to hold a press conference and say "the buck stops here" and announce a trade of a core 4 player (likely Willy) and tell eveyone they wanted to keep him and offered him a fair market comparable contract, but in the end I had to do what was best for the team.. We can't ice a Cup competitive team with everyone demanding top $$ above market.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Something around Pesce, ideally.

That's the RHD this team has been lacking for 20 years.

The team would be better.

Look, I'm an Eagles fan and am spoiled with a mastermind GM in Howie Roseman who manipulates the cap better than anyone else, but, the cap in the NHL can can only be kicked so far down the road.

If this team didn't have 34 or 16, sure....give him $9.5 but he's not and never will be the 'guy' here.

Pesce isn't enough of a return.

If both Matthews and Marner were signed long-term, and we knew Matthews wrist problem was fixed, I'd say trade him (for more than Pesce).

But Matthews has the wrist problem, and neither is signed for more than a year or two.

We gave Tavares $11M five years ago to be a 2C, and Nylander has been far more valuable to this team for at least two years, and certainly will be for the next two (at least). If we can survive until JTs contract comes off the books without losing one of our top three, we'll be in much better shape.

 

[Menzinger]

Something around Pesce, ideally.

That's the RHD this team has been lacking for 20 years.

The team would be better.

Look, I'm an Eagles fan and am spoiled with a mastermind GM in Howie Roseman who manipulates the cap better than anyone else, but, the cap in the NHL can can only be kicked so far down the road.

If this team didn't have 34 or 16, sure....give him $9.5 but he's not and never will be the 'guy' here.

Eh, secondary scoring would look potentially pretty rough. It would rely on Tavares carrying a bigger load than he has since joining the team which is something that may not work out

 

[Nineteen67]

all good ... like i said, i am old ... old enough i remember a cup! LOL....

View attachment 727563

The Labatt 50 is a nice touch.

 

[Nineteen67]

Pesce isn't enough of a return.

If both Matthews and Marner were signed long-term, and we knew Matthews wrist problem was fixed, I'd say trade him (for more than Pesce).

But Matthews has the wrist problem, and neither is signed for more than a year or two.

We gave Tavares $11M five years ago to be a 2C, and Nylander has been far more valuable to this team for at least two years, and certainly will be for the next two (at least). If we can survive until JTs contract comes off the books without losing one of our top three, we'll be in much better shape.

Do we know for sure that he has a wrist problem?

 

[Mess]

He is within 1mm of the highest paid?

View attachment 727543

Debrincat isn't making 5mm less than his highest paid teammate.

Debrincat has a pair of 40 goals seasons already.

Trevliving is offering Willy +$1 Mil more $8.8 mil than that. Time for WN to drop his asking price as he has less NHL goals than Alex and played 71 more games.

 

[BM14]

Eh, secondary scoring would look potentially pretty rough. It would rely on Tavares carrying a bigger load than he has since joining the team which is something that may not work out

It would, but you're also going to give up less goals as well.

Pesce isn't enough of a return.

If both Matthews and Marner were signed long-term, and we knew Matthews wrist problem was fixed, I'd say trade him (for more than Pesce).

But Matthews has the wrist problem, and neither is signed for more than a year or two.

We gave Tavares $11M five years ago to be a 2C, and Nylander has been far more valuable to this team for at least two years, and certainly will be for the next two (at least). If we can survive until JTs contract comes off the books without losing one of our top three, we'll be in much better shape.

Tavares' resume was significantly better than Nylander's and plays a more important position.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Do we know for sure that he has a wrist problem?

We know he had a wrist injury, and had surgery on it last year. Apparently he told at least a couple of reporters that his hand was not right this year. (there's a thread in here somewhere).

Watching him this year, it seemed fairly obvious that he wasn't scoring with the quick wristers as before.

Whether it was specifically 'wrist' or 'hand', there was clearly something wrong, and if it is chronic that's a problem.

 

[notDatsyuk]

It would, but you're also going to give up less goals as well.


Tavares' resume was significantly better than Nylander's and plays a more important position.

Contrary to what some people think, Tavares is more of a defensive problem than Nylander, and getting worse.

JT's resume was better at the time he signed, but it isn't better now, and now is the time we're talking about Nylander's contract. And Nylander can play center, and at this stage probably much better than JT, with the sole exception of faceoffs. If JT was worth $11M five years ago (he wasn't, but that's a different issue), Willy is certainly worth at least $9.5 now.

But the issue of those two contracts doesn't address my main point.

 

[BM14]

Contrary to what some people think, Tavares is more of a defensive problem than Nylander, and getting worse.

JT's resume was better at the time he signed, but it isn't better now, and now is the time we're talking about Nylander's contract. And Nylander can play center, and at this stage probably much better than JT, with the sole exception of faceoffs. If JT was worth $11M five years ago (he wasn't, but that's a different issue), Willy is certainly worth at least $9.5 now.

But the issue of those two contracts doesn't address my main point.

You brought up the JT contract in your argument for your point. You can't compare when it was signed to today; that's not relevant.

And no, this isn't PS5. Nylander cannot play centre in the NHL. The guy has zero clue or drive to be in his own zone. There is so much more to playing C than FO %.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Can you imagine one of the core 4 saying " I don't want to screw over the Leafs with a big bloated cap busting contract, so its in the best interest of the team to trade me for the best return" ..

Joking aside it would make quite a statement by the new GM to hold a press conference and say "the buck stops here" and announce a trade of a core 4 player (likely Willy) and tell eveyone they wanted to keep him and offered him a fair market comparable contract, but in the end I had to do what was best for the team.. We can't ice a Cup competitive team with everyone demanding top $$ above market.

Honestly while that sentiment may be cathartic to hear it would more than likely end up backfiring. Mitch would use the fact that he's now the teams only capable first line right winger against us, and would eat into a portion of whatever money was going to go to Nylander anyway.

 

[trellaine201]

There not trading to an east team unless we fleece the other team. So no.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Has Nylanders direct comparable set his price? Debrincat along with Nylander were both set to be UFAs next year. Debrincat is even younger so more prime years, where as Nylanders supposed ask takes him into his 30s where there would most likely be declining years.

4 years x 7.9m for Nylander is a good deal for the Leafs.

 

[Superstar]

Has Nylanders direct comparable set his price? Debrincat along with Nylander were both set to be UFAs next year. Debrincat is even younger so more prime years, where as Nylanders supposed ask takes him into his 30s where there would most likely be declining years.

4 years x 7.9m for Nylander is a good deal for the Leafs.

Willy wants 10 million though.

 

[danny90]

Debrincat has a pair of 40 goals seasons already.

View attachment 727592

Trevliving is offering Willy +$1 Mil more $8.8 mil than that. Time for WN to drop his asking price as he has less NHL goals than Alex and played 71 more games.

View attachment 727593

If Nylander was coming off a 27 goal season this makes sense.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Willy wants 10 million though.

So do I, but in reality, his comparables are signing for less.

Looks like Treliving will be booed out of town at this point if that contract starts with a 9.

 

[Apex Predator]

Debrincat has a pair of 40 goals seasons already.

View attachment 727592

Trevliving is offering Willy +$1 Mil more $8.8 mil than that. Time for WN to drop his asking price as he has less NHL goals than Alex and played 71 more games.

View attachment 727593

None of these comparables mean nothing to those guys. They’re in their own world.

 

[Nemesis Prime]

bring willie to detroit

 

[kb]

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Poulin doesn't think Nylander will sign early. From his tone he doesn't think he should, and that Matthews contract should be less on a short term deal. Of course he isn't some fan with a love/hate for the players.

Read some comments about people in Calgary wanting in on Nylander.

Seemed quite excited about moving on from players and keying on Nylander.

I think it would energize the fans here.
Let's face-it, of the 3 drafted Leafs, he's likely the easiest to saddle up to.

Problem is, some here are rather clueless, and are thinking that a UFA contract in a player's prime is like an RFA bridge contract.

If anything, a shorter deal for Matthews as a UFA in his prime should be more expensive, as it doesn't include what should be his declining years.

But it's possibly the stupidest analyst on TV (Poulin) saying this, so sadly uninformed fans gobble it up like a fat kid with a Twinkie.

 

[kb]

4 - M&M don't play as well in the playoffs as they do in the regular season.

In all fairness, Marner averaged 1.24 PPG in this past regular season, and 1.27 PPG in the playoffs.

Matthews was on a 1.38 PPG pace before getting his wrist damaged again in Game 3 of the Florida series after an injury plagued 1.15 PPG in the regular season.

Just adding context. I do believe both want to do far better though.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Debrincat has a pair of 40 goals seasons already.
Trevliving is offering Willy +$1 Mil more $8.8 mil than that. Time for WN to drop his asking price as he has less NHL goals than Alex and played 71 more games.

Contracts are based on more than just goals.

Contrary to what some people think, Tavares is more of a defensive problem than Nylander, and getting worse.

Tavares is better than Nylander defensively.

JT's resume was better at the time he signed, but it isn't better now, and now is the time we're talking about Nylander's contract. And Nylander can play center, and at this stage probably much better than JT, with the sole exception of faceoffs.

Your resume when you sign is all that matters, and no, Nylander is not a center.

 

[kb]

We had a lot of leverage when they were all RFAs coming off their ELC, but Dubas still managed to pay them above what they probably get as UFAs, at least in Marner's case.

Look at Morgan Rielly. He's flat-out superior to Darnell Nurse in every way possible. But he just didn't care so much about the money. He wanted to play for Toronto. Damn shame he's not captain. Can you get that corrected Tre? Make Morgan captain today.

Dubas deserves some blame here, but let's remember that second contracts are not necessarily Dubas' fault here.

Anyone remember when Burke (rightfully IMO) blamed Edmonton for the 'death of the second contract' when they needed to keep players from bailing. so they started the trend of big AAV and term on second contracts. Even though technically players should be paid based on their production over the first contract plus how the team projects them to be over the life of the contract.

Off topic: Odd that people throughout this thread seem to think that comparing contract's AAV's that were signed over a decade ago (under a much lower cap) should somehow be relevant to contracts today.....

 

[kb]

It's kind of interesting how so many star players talk about taking less to win almost like the unsaid part of the statement is "unlike those fancy guys in Toronto." They're all multi-multi-multi millionaires.

Weird how Meier's $8.8 AAV over 8 - and only averages roughly a whopping 0.5 PPG in the playoffs - is somehow being held up as (or talked about as) "taking less".

Why wouldn't Willie ask for more?? He's done more when it counts, plus during the regular season.