Nylander - In round 2 doing his thing.

[Drytoast]

This isn't a good series for Willie. He absolutely can be intimidated off the puck very easily. Which is my biggest gripe with him. Those corners and his unwillingness to dive into them.

 

[Stephen]

I'm old but not that old.

We do like the hard workers though, no doubt there.

I remember in grade school there was a kids book in the library about how the Big M had a nervous breakdown playing in front of Toronto’s jeering crowd and for Punch Imlach. Decades before mental health was even really a topic. That was such a weird story to read.

But yeah, we love the grit grinders!

 

[Gary Nylund]

Ya, a Selke nominee this season can you believe my audacity. Like debating a toddler. Cheers.

I'm not saying Marner doesn't deserve praise, I'm saying Nylander gets way too much crap around here.

Like debating someone who's reading comprehension is at toddler level. Cheers.

Traditionally, the Toronto market just has an unusual relationship with finesse based players.

This is the same city that had a problem with Frank Mahovlich during the dynasty years.

I remember in grade school there was a kids book in the library about how the Big M had a nervous breakdown playing in front of Toronto’s jeering crowd and for Punch Imlach. Decades before mental health was even really a topic. That was such a weird story to read.

But yeah, we love the grit grinders!

Wow, that's surprising, and that sucks, I had no idea. I only remember the big M from his time in Montreal and with Team Canada, was always a big time star to me as a kid.

 

[DarkKnight]

The effort was there defensively for the first 80 percent of the season, so we’ve seen it. Also, zero criticism for me. Anyways back to look at my signed Sundin jersey, for all the people who use the Swede crutch, what a warrior he was defensively. Borje too. There is no bias, or more correctly, perhaps people should check there’s, that seems to be all this “defensive” rebuttals routine he is, he’s sucked ass in our end all playoffs. Deal with it. I’ll be the first to praise him when it changes, we all want the same thing here.

 

[Stephen]

I'm not saying Marner doesn't deserve praise, I'm saying Nylander gets way too much crap around here.

Like debating someone who's reading comprehension is at toddler level. Cheers.




Wow, that's surprising, and that sucks, I had no idea. I only remember the big M from his time in Montreal and with Team Canada, was always a big time star to me as a kid.

OT. But you might like this read on the topic.

Greatest Maple Leafs: No. 6 Frank Mahovlich

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[Gary Nylund]

Kyper and Bourne show yesterday had coach Boudreau on and he talked about Nylander and I really liked what he said.

Good outweighs the bad ... smart guy that Boudreau.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Traditionally, the Toronto market just has an unusual relationship with finesse based players.

This is the same city that had a problem with Frank Mahovlich during the dynasty years.

Based on what I've read, the fan reaction to Frank back then was entirely manipulated by Imlach. He treated Frank like crap often using his pals in the media, and he did the same to Sittler a decade later.

As for the original question, talk to Nylander's camp in June and see if his demands can be negotiated to a number the Leafs can live with.

Regarding this series, I expect Nylander will show up and make a difference.

 

[BraveCanadian]

In the case of Marner, I get he plays in all situations, 22-25 mins a game, if he deserves that much TOI maybe he should do something in the offensive zone more often. He's been disappointing offensively in the last few games at least, where as I'd say Willy has been disappointing defensively in game 4 and 5 was a bit better and 1 play in the first game Rnd 2, nothing too noteworthy though in this last game, it's just being blown out of proportion by the usual crowd.

Marner plays that much only because he plays in all situations. Because he can.

 

[IPS]

The criticism on Nylander is more than warranted IMO. I haven't had much of a problem with him creating chances offensively but being an absolute non-factor with basic defensive zone coverage and repeatedly avoiding contact is unforgivable.

 

[pcruz]

And that's the thing. Nylander deserves flack for his defensive play that game - BUT - it's the singling out that I find strange. The Leafs forward unit on the ice during the first Florida goal for example were an absolute joke on that play but Nylander wasnt on the ice so it won't be brought up again

Isn't this a thread about Nylander?

It'd be strange if someone asked about what you ate for dinner and you answered with your favourite car.

Offensively, Nylander is on par with Mitch.
At least, at the top of their game, he has it all to be right there with Marner.

Defensively, he's nowhere near Auston, Mitch, or JT.

Physically, he's nowhere near Auston, Mitch, or JT.

So, while he's not scoring or creating, he has to significantly pick up his game to compensate, whereas Mitch can compensate for poor offense with the PK; Auston can compensate with being one of the best 2 way players in the game; JT is one of premier face-off men in the league.

The other 3 also lay the body far more frequently than Nylander. Mitch looks like a child next to Willy in stature, but he throws his body once in a while.

That's the reason he gets so much flack.

It's not simply about offense if he can do all of the other things to help the team win.
He doesn't, and therefore he has to be productive in order to not get shit on.

It's no coincidence that Matthews has been on the ice for double the goals against in the games Nylander has been on his wing, compared to the games before then. And of those, he had been on the ice for 2 goals that were in no way his fault as he had just come onto the ice as the goal went in.

 

[Gary Nylund]

OT. But you might like this read on the topic.

Greatest Maple Leafs: No. 6 Frank Mahovlich

www.sportsnet.ca

Finally found time to read this, I'm glad I did. I had no idea, thank you for this! Also this bolded below - I knew this guy was good and everything but I didn't know he was this good a goal scorer. Sound like if Punch wasn't such a dick, Mahovlich would have been even a bigger legend than he eventually became despite Punch. All hail the Big M!!

Then, in 1960–61, he did what everyone had been waiting for. He posted 48 goals in 56 games and, with 14 games left, looked poised to become the second man in NHL history to score 50 goals in a season.

 

[IPS]

I am as puzzled as you are about Nylanders PP deployment

He is undoubtedly a better fit on the first unit than ROR is.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Isn't this a thread about Nylander?

It'd be strange if someone asked about what you ate for dinner and you answered with your favourite car.

Offensively, Nylander is on par with Mitch.
At least, at the top of their game, he has it all to be right there with Marner.

Defensively, he's nowhere near Auston, Mitch, or JT.

Physically, he's nowhere near Auston, Mitch, or JT.

So, while he's not scoring or creating, he has to significantly pick up his game to compensate, whereas Mitch can compensate for poor offense with the PK; Auston can compensate with being one of the best 2 way players in the game; JT is one of premier face-off men in the league.

The other 3 also lay the body far more frequently than Nylander. Mitch looks like a child next to Willy in stature, but he throws his body once in a while.

That's the reason he gets so much flack.

It's not simply about offense if he can do all of the other things to help the team win.
He doesn't, and therefore he has to be productive in order to not get shit on.

It's no coincidence that Matthews has been on the ice for double the goals against in the games Nylander has been on his wing, compared to the games before then. And of those, he had been on the ice for 2 goals that were in no way his fault as he had just come onto the ice as the goal went in.

I'll bet that when you compare players to other players who's cap hit is 4-5 million higher, the guys with the higher cap hits will usually come out looking pretty good. This post makes about as much sense as it would to criticize Kerfoot for producing as much offense as Nylander, I mean come on dude.

Cliff notes - there are really inappropriate comparables you've chosen here, try to be better.

Didn't Nylander have more points than all those higher priced players in the playoffs over the last 2 years or something? I can't remember exactly but I'm pretty sure Nylander gives us plenty of bang for the buck. If we was making 11 million like those other guys, you'd have grounds for bitching and moaning but for 7 million a year, nope.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

This isn't a good series for Willie. He absolutely can be intimidated off the puck very easily. Which is my biggest gripe with him. Those corners and his unwillingness to dive into them.

He can be fine if he is deployed with right guys .. Willy needs to play at supersonic speed .. him Lafferty and Kerfoot would light up da Cats D .. he is not a give and goer like Matty and JT are .. he blows bye guys and then needs another guy with lighting speed to beat another D and throw a beauty pass for a tip in goal on da fly .. it is why he looked like best player on ice vs Habs who were a fast team too .. Kerfoot helps him unleash da beast

 

[pcruz]

I'll bet that when you compare players to other players who's cap hit is 4-5 million higher, the guys with the higher cap hits will usually come out looking pretty good. This post makes about as much sense as it would to criticize Kerfoot for producing as much offense as Nylander, I mean come on dude.

Cliff notes - there are really inappropriate comparables you've chosen here, try to be better.

Didn't Nylander have more points than all those higher priced players in the playoffs over the last 2 years or something? I can't remember exactly but I'm pretty sure Nylander gives us plenty of bang for the buck. If we was making 11 million like those other guys, you'd have grounds for bitching and moaning but for 7 million a year, nope.

It's wrong to compare Nylander, a player who just scored 40 goals in the regular season, with the other star players on the same team?

The same players who while providing the same, or significantly more offensive production, also contribute in other facets of the game to help the team win.

Strange take.


If I were an Oiler fan, I'd be shitting all over Draisaitl for his defensive effort these playoffs.
Same with McDavid.

We all know that offensively, those 2 are just phenomenal, but they have been so abysmal defensively thus far, just dreadful, that they need to score at unprecedented levels just to be even in terms of contribution to winning.

Nylander is in the same boat. Unless he starts to add to his game, he either puts up a lot of points or he's more harmful than helpful.

What's frustrating is that he CAN do it.

I'm not looking at Acciari and asking why he hasn't scored 5 goals yet, or Jarnkrok, or Bunting, or Lafferty, or ZAR, or Kampf...
Those guys have nowhere near the upside of Nylander, and they have been giving the team nearly their full potential.

Nylander hasn't been anywhere near to giving it all in the first 8 games.

Not to say that 34, 16, 91, 90 have been at 100% production, but on nights they aren't, they have at least blocked shots, hit people, etc...

 

[Stephen]

Finally found time to read this, I'm glad I did. I had no idea, thank you for this! Also this bolded below - I knew this guy was good and everything but I didn't know he was this good a goal scorer. Sound like if Punch wasn't such a dick, Mahovlich would have been even a bigger legend than he eventually became despite Punch. All hail the Big M!!

Then, in 1960–61, he did what everyone had been waiting for. He posted 48 goals in 56 games and, with 14 games left, looked poised to become the second man in NHL history to score 50 goals in a season.

It sounded a lot like what happened with Johan Franzen under Mike Babcock in Detroit. You never know what guys are dealing with under the microscope.

But yeah historically speaking the Toronto market seems to be more comfortable cheering for the two way, grit grind than dominant skill display. Just one of those weird things I guess.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It's wrong to compare Nylander, a player who just scored 40 goals in the regular season, with the other star players on the same team?

The same players who while providing the same, or significantly more offensive production, also contribute in other facets of the game to help the team win.

Strange take.


If I were an Oiler fan, I'd be shitting all over Draisaitl for his defensive effort these playoffs.
Same with McDavid.

We all know that offensively, those 2 are just phenomenal, but they have been so abysmal defensively thus far, just dreadful, that they need to score at unprecedented levels just to be even in terms of contribution to winning.

Nylander is in the same boat. Unless he starts to add to his game, he either puts up a lot of points or he's more harmful than helpful.

What's frustrating is that he CAN do it.

I'm not looking at Acciari and asking why he hasn't scored 5 goals yet, or Jarnkrok, or Bunting, or Lafferty, or ZAR, or Kampf...
Those guys have nowhere near the upside of Nylander, and they have been giving the team nearly their full potential.

Nylander hasn't been anywhere near to giving it all in the first 8 games.

Not to say that 34, 16, 91, 90 have been at 100% production, but on nights they aren't, they have at least blocked shots, hit people, etc...

I stopped reading at the bolded because it looks like you didn't understand my post at all. I think I was pretty clear in saying that what is wrong, is holding a player with a 7 million dollar cap hit to the same standards as a player with an 11 million dollar cap hit.

 

[notDatsyuk]

The effort was there defensively for the first 80 percent of the season, so we’ve seen it. Also, zero criticism for me. Anyways back to look at my signed Sundin jersey, for all the people who use the Swede crutch, what a warrior he was defensively. Borje too. There is no bias, or more correctly, perhaps people should check there’s, that seems to be all this “defensive” rebuttals routine he is, he’s sucked ass in our end all playoffs. Deal with it. I’ll be the first to praise him when it changes, we all want the same thing here.

He hasn't "sucked ass" in our end, but if a goal is scored and he is on the ice, there are several posters who will go to ridiculous lengths to 'prove' that it was all his fault. If he covers the winger, he should have covered the point, because the point scored. If he covers the point he should have covered the winger, because the winger scored. It doesn't seem to matter that there are five other Leafs on the ice.

Tuesday's game is a perfect case in point: Leafs are shorthanded because of a delayed penalty (McCabe tackles Tkachuk deep in the Florida end), he's been on the ice for over a minute, and if you watch the play, he and McCabe are the only two Leafs who actually make physical contact with a Florida player in the slot area before the goal. Apparently he was standing too upright, and that's why the shot from the point, which didn't hit either him or the man he was covering (and neither screened Sammy) went in.

 

[notdoneyet]

He hasn't "sucked ass" in our end, but if a goal is scored and he is on the ice, there are several posters who will go to ridiculous lengths to 'prove' that it was all his fault. If he covers the winger, he should have covered the point, because the point scored. If he covers the point he should have covered the winger, because the winger scored. It doesn't seem to matter that there are five other Leafs on the ice.

Tuesday's game is a perfect case in point: Leafs are shorthanded because of a delayed penalty (McCabe tackles Tkachuk deep in the Florida end), he's been on the ice for over a minute, and if you watch the play, he and McCabe are the only two Leafs who actually make physical contact with a Florida player in the slot area before the goal. Apparently he was standing too upright, and that's why the shot from the point, which didn't hit either him or the man he was covering (and neither screened Sammy) went in.

There is a reason why Nylander isn’t on the ice late in a game whenever we are leading
His defense sucks ass
Willy has bailed from hits too many times

He will be gone this summer

 

[Gary Nylund]

There is a reason why Nylander isn’t on the ice late in a game whenever we are leading
His defense sucks ass
Willy has bailed from hits too many times

He will be gone this summer

 

[pcruz]

I stopped reading at the bolded because it looks like you didn't understand my post at all. I think I was pretty clear in saying that what is wrong, is holding a player with a 7 million dollar cap hit to the same standards as a player with an 11 million dollar cap hit.

I want all 18 skaters to put in their full effort in the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Maybe you don't expect that, but I do.

And Nylander at full effort is a game changer.

He hasn't been anywhere near 100 % effort yet.

 

[Stephen]

I stopped reading at the bolded because it looks like you didn't understand my post at all. I think I was pretty clear in saying that what is wrong, is holding a player with a 7 million dollar cap hit to the same standards as a player with an 11 million dollar cap hit.

You know, Matthew Tkachuk’s $9.5 million might be a good negotiating reference point vs Nylander.

 

[ToneDog]

You know, Matthew Tkachuk’s $9.5 million might be a good negotiating reference point vs Nylander.

Nylander can ask, but Leafs would be idiots to entertain that number.

 

[Hellcat]

This isn't a good series for Willie. He absolutely can be intimidated off the puck very easily. Which is my biggest gripe with him. Those corners and his unwillingness to dive into them.

Which is why he's an 8mil guy and not a 10 mil guy, Willie will disappear for long stretches' , where if you don't look at the boxscore you'd never know he played. Elite Invisibility. I think he leaves when he hits UFA for a warmer climate with great nightlife, Cali or Florida is my guess.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I want all 18 skaters to put in their full effort in the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Maybe you don't expect that, but I do.

And Nylander at full effort is a game changer.

He hasn't been anywhere near 100 % effort yet.

Not sure how you measure effort, are there advance stats for that?

Nylander's a player who often doesn't appear to be putting the effort, but that appearance is misleading. Sundin was another guy like that.

Bottom line, Nylander has been overall good in the playoffs and he looked like perhaps our best player in game one.

Agree to disagree.

You know, Matthew Tkachuk’s $9.5 million might be a good negotiating reference point vs Nylander.

Interesting thought. Two completely different players but I do think 9.5 is about what Nylander will get on his next contract, we'll see.