Nylander - In round 2 doing his thing.

[Dasher29]

As much as he deserves SOME criticism he receives, he definitely gets much more than anyone else on the team. The media drools at the chance, it seems, to write something negative about the guy, almost as much as certain posters in here do.

The one play that has him not going toward the net, had nothing to do with him avoiding contact, logically, he didn't realize he had a path to the net and already had another plan on what he was gonna do. Should he look... sure, of course. The 6 on 5 goal, he was with his opponent the whole time, people are shocked he wasn't physical with him in front of the net?! That's not his game, moving his feet and stealing a puck is what he does best, not standing still like a dman. Minimal blame imo.

Justin Bourne wrote his article about Nylander yesterday, and he just seemed like he wanted to rile up the angry people and pile on Willy. I can't say i've ever like Toronto media, I think most are trying to either start narratives or re-introduce old narratives, while only picking on certain players. Don't see many articles about Marner needing to step it up, or even Tavares a bit. Nobody dares criticize the 11M trio at all (Aston has been excellent so he's safe anyways).

In the case of Marner, I get he plays in all situations, 22-25 mins a game, if he deserves that much TOI maybe he should do something in the offensive zone more often. He's been disappointing offensively in the last few games at least, where as I'd say Willy has been disappointing defensively in game 4 and 5 was a bit better and 1 play in the first game Rnd 2, nothing too noteworthy though in this last game, it's just being blown out of proportion by the usual crowd.

It'd be nice if the media and this board could exercise some equality, with their obvious biases and narratives. (I know that will never happen, the media's hate on Nylander basically started when he was drafted and fans have bought in fully.) Always seems that Willy's good graces/appreciation from everyone goes away real quick when he struggles a bit. Sorry this was long, rant over.

 

[DarkKnight]

I Iove this “singling him out” stuff. Try this, who’s the Leafs worst defensive forward? Exactly. Your subconscious brain gets it before the other qualifiers erase objectivity.

Just work your ass off in our end Bill, nobody is expecting blocked shots and physical play, it’s the coasting around and waiting for someone else to win a puck that’s infuriating. And guess what, I’ve watched two separate US feeds of late, everyone sees it, “haters” is cover for eyesight apparently.

Just work, period, everyone else can do it. You don’t win with passengers at this stage.

 

[81Leafs50]

IF you take Nylander and his 40 goals off this team. You will have a tough time finding someone to make the 2nd better, moving a 3rd liner up to fill that spot. Tavares and Marner DONT score that much. WHAT do you have beyond Matthews? f*** all

 

[Dasher29]

I Iove this “singling him out” stuff. Try this, who’s the Leafs worst defensive forward? Exactly. Your subconscious brain gets it before the other qualifiers begin.

Just work your ass off in our end Bill, nobody is expecting blocked shots and physical play, it’s the coasting around and waiting for someone else to win a puck that’s infuriating. And guess what, I’ve watched two separate US feeds of late, everyone sees it, “haters” is cover for eyesight apparently.

Just work, period, everyone else can do it.

I don't think that's the evidence you think it is. So US feeds hate on Canadian teams players??, wow shocking... There's a difference between pointing out an obvious defensive lapse and piling on just because it's a certain player. Many sadly do the latter. Most can admit when Willy screws up, but, it's never as drastic as some like to think it is.

 

[Notsince67]

IF you take Nylander and his 40 goals off this team. You will have a tough time finding someone to make the 2nd better, moving a 3rd liner up to fill that spot. Tavares and Marner DONT score that much. WHAT do you have beyond Matthews? f*** all

Nylander has yet to score a 5x5 goal in the playoffs so i'm unsure what the need to compare Marner and Tavares is for.

 

[DarkKnight]

I don't think that's the evidence you think it is. So US feeds hate on Canadian teams players??, wow shocking... There's a difference between pointing out an obvious defensive lapse and piling on just because it's a certain player. Many sadly do the latter. Most can admit when Willy screws up, but, it's never as drastic as some like to think it is.

So when I asked who the worst defensive forward is who came immediately to your mind?

Nobody is picking on the guy, he just isn’t trying like he needs to in our end. Get him past the red line he’s suddenly all world, it’s the other 100 feet that’s stinks so far. I’m never apologizing for getting angry at lack of effort, you guys can, seems biased. I didn’t criticize him once for months here because he was trying everywhere, that’s how it works.

 

[ACC1224]

I don't think that's the evidence you think it is. So US feeds hate on Canadian teams players??, wow shocking... There's a difference between pointing out an obvious defensive lapse and piling on just because it's a certain player. Many sadly do the latter. Most can admit when Willy screws up, but, it's never as drastic as some like to think it is.

Anything critical that may be said is because of a "hate on Canadian teams players"?
As you said, "I don't think that's the evidence you think it is"

So when I asked who the worst defensive forward is who came immediately to your mind?

Nobody is picking on the guy, he just isn’t trying like he needs to in our end. Get him past the red line he’s suddenly all world, it’s the other 100 feet that’s stinks so far. I’m never apologizing for getting angry at lack of effort, you guys can, seems biased. I didn’t criticize him once for months here because he was trying everywhere, that’s how it works.

It's obvious to all but a few, pretty much unanimous but there will always be a couple.

 

[Dasher29]

So when I asked who the worst defensive forward is who came immediately to your mind?

Nobody is picking on the guy, he just isn’t trying like he needs to in our end. Get him past the red line he’s suddenly all world, it’s the other 100 feet that’s stinks so far. I’m never apologizing for getting angry at lack of effort, you guys can, seems biased. I didn’t criticize him once for months here because he was trying everywhere, that’s how it works.

In his own end yes he needs to be better, obviously, the other zones he's been good, I guess I don't get red hot mad/passionate by some plays that are usually caused by multiple screw ups, guess it's not in my nature. I think it comes down to the fact that most plays that Willy has been a part of and "blamed" for are not only his fault, in my eyes, but, he gets the bulk of the criticism it seems. My piling on comment and drastic reactions, wasn't about you specifically, that's just a generalization of what I've seen on this board and the media when Willy makes a bad play.

 

[Dasher29]

Anything critical that may be said is because of a "hate on Canadian teams players"?
As you said, "I don't think that's the evidence you think it is"


It's obvious to all but a few, pretty much unanimous but there will always be a couple.

I didn't say 'Anything', but, yes, be dramatic if you want. All I'm saying is yes, US feeds have a tendency to be pro US team if they're playing a Canadian one.... same goes for the other way most of the time. Does Willy have defensive warts, yup he does, do others receive the hate he does when they mess up on the same play, nope, not even close.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I Iove this “singling him out” stuff. Try this, who’s the Leafs worst defensive forward? Exactly. Your subconscious brain gets it before the other qualifiers erase objectivity.

Just work your ass off in our end Bill, nobody is expecting blocked shots and physical play, it’s the coasting around and waiting for someone else to win a puck that’s infuriating. And guess what, I’ve watched two separate US feeds of late, everyone sees it, “haters” is cover for eyesight apparently.

Just work, period, everyone else can do it. You don’t win with passengers at this stage.

Exactly. The worst defensive forward is Tavares, but he never seems to get called out for it by the media, so he gets a free pass from the fans who get their opinions from the media.

Nylander is in a bit of a tough spot in the "who's the best" list. Best setup? Marner, but Willy's a close second. Best shot? Matty, but Willy's a close second. "Close second" doesn't seem to carry any weight.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

IF you take Nylander and his 40 goals off this team. You will have a tough time finding someone to make the 2nd better, moving a 3rd liner up to fill that spot. Tavares and Marner DONT score that much. WHAT do you have beyond Matthews? f*** all

You have cap room/possibilities

 

[notDatsyuk]

Nylander has yet to score a 5x5 goal in the playoffs so i'm unsure what the need to compare Marner and Tavares is for.

The other side of that is that he is tied for second in PP points, despite playing mostly on the second unit.

People bring up the "hasn't scored in 5 games" without mentioning that Marner hasn't either, and ROR and JT have only one each.

He's been getting as many chances as anyone, and setting up a bunch too. Some of those should start to go in.

 

[ACC1224]

I didn't say 'Anything', but, yes, be dramatic if you want. All I'm saying is yes, US feeds have a tendency to be pro US team if they're playing a Canadian one.... same goes for the other way most of the time. Does Willy have defensive warts, yup he does, do others receive the hate he does when they mess up on the same play, nope, not even close.

Most of Nylanders 'mess up' comes from lack of effort, that's the issue people have.
All players make mistakes at times and they're pointed out, mistakes due to lack of effort don't happen as often.

I don't watch US broadcasts, I watch ours. Which other players were they overly critical of?

 

[Notsince67]

The other side of that is that he is tied for second in PP points, despite playing mostly on the second unit.

People bring up the "hasn't scored in 5 games" without mentioning that Marner hasn't either, and ROR and JT have only one each.

He's been getting as many chances as anyone, and setting up a bunch too. Some of those should start to go in.

I am as puzzled as you are about Nylanders PP deployment

 

[thewave]

A bit hypocritical of you when you constantly slam Mitch who is thrown in every situation. While I don't disagree with your premise here, you definitely suit your argument to your favorites.

He's a great player. So far when he is faced with a truculent team or high stakes situations he has not performed well. Is that entirely his fault? No, perhaps Keefe and Dubas should have an option ready to go for him to thrive in these situations.

Little Scrawny Kadri as a kid was kicking butt with Colton Orr and McLaren. It wasn't long lived but all his fears went away and he played some good hockey. Just watch how many Leafs numbers you see in the corner when one of our guys gets in trouble. They should be a pack of wolves, nope. That's on Keefe and Dubas and development in my eyes.

 

[Notsince67]

He's a great player. So far when he is faced with a truculent team or high stakes situations he has not performed well. Is that entirely his fault? No, perhaps Keefe and Dubas should have an option ready to go for him to thrive in these situations.

Little Scrawny Kadri as a kid was kicking butt with Colton Orr and McLaren. It wasn't long lived but all his fears went away and he played some good hockey. Just watch how many Leafs numbers you see in the corner when one of our guys gets in trouble. They should be a pack of wolves, nope. That's on Keefe and Dubas and development in my eyes.

Keefe is trying to move chess pieces in a fricking hockey game. The line changes are dizzing.
I might take heat here but I think Knies is in the wrong spot. Bunting needs to move up. Bunting isnt good defensively and we all know he can perform in the top line. Knies has a long stick and could aid O'Rielly.
I think the leafs lose nothing in offense.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I seem to recall that delayed penalty went on for quite a while before Florida scored, and don't remember how long that unit had been out there for. The routine situation is you get a puck touch and the whistle blows... but that's not to excuse the regular season effort and attention to detail and compete that went on there.

I always look at Phil Kessel's time in Pittsburgh, him slotting in the 3-4 role on that team and the back to back championships they won as Nylander's ultimate upside on a winning team. But this is also a double edged sword because Kessel was the first guy they got rid of post championship. So the reality is we either win with Nylander and it looks like the correct call and all the trade offs were worth it to have that gamebreaking ability... or he'll drive you nuts.

I don't want this to be taken as "sucking up" to a Mod but I find your takes always relevant and level headed. Thank you.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Most of Nylanders 'mess up' comes from lack of effort, that's the issue people have.
All players make mistakes at times and they're pointed out, mistakes due to lack of effort don't happen as often.

I don't watch US broadcasts, I watch ours. Which other players were they overly critical of?

This is the biggest problem. Willie is pound for pound probably the most skilled forward we have but he has zero consistency in his efforts...hence the 'soft/lazy' narrative.

We just go round and round guys, when he doesn't score his detractors will scream for him to be traded. When he scores a goal the Willie fan club chimes in. Rinse & repeat lmao

 

[Drytoast]

Kyper and Bourne show yesterday had coach Boudreau on and he talked about Nylander and I really liked what he said.

 

[ACC1224]

This is the biggest problem. Willie is pound for pound probably the most skilled forward we have but he has zero consistency in his efforts...hence the 'soft/lazy' narrative.

We just go round and round guys, when he doesn't score his detractors will scream for him to be traded. When he scores a goal the Willie fan club chimes in. Rinse & repeat lmao

View attachment 702771

Type of player that you take the good with the bad.
It's ok to like a player and still be able to point out there flaws. With some you either love or hate, no in between.

Have a feeling he pots one or two tonight.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I Iove this “singling him out” stuff. Try this, who’s the Leafs worst defensive forward? Exactly. Your subconscious brain gets it before the other qualifiers erase objectivity.

Just work your ass off in our end Bill, nobody is expecting blocked shots and physical play, it’s the coasting around and waiting for someone else to win a puck that’s infuriating. And guess what, I’ve watched two separate US feeds of late, everyone sees it, “haters” is cover for eyesight apparently.

Just work, period, everyone else can do it. You don’t win with passengers at this stage.

You're implying that Nyander is a passenger and you don't win with passengers at this stage. Yet we won against TB, weird.

You get upset anytime anyone dares suggest that Marner is anything less than gods gift to the Maple Leafs, yet you have no problem trashing Nylander. Not to single you out, there are many like you but still, Nylander is a great player, delivers excellent value for his cap hit and most of the crap he gets here is over the top.

 

[Stephen]

Type of player that you take the good with the bad.
It's ok to like a player and still be able to point out there flaws. With some you either love or hate, no in between.

Have a feeling he pots one or two tonight.

Traditionally, the Toronto market just has an unusual relationship with finesse based players.

This is the same city that had a problem with Frank Mahovlich during the dynasty years.

 

[DarkKnight]

You're implying that Nyander is a passenger and you don't win with passengers at this stage. Yet we won against TB, weird.

You get upset anytime anyone dares suggest that Marner is anything less than gods gift to the Maple Leafs, yet you have no problem trashing Nylander. Not to single you out, there are many like you but still, Nylander is a great player, delivers excellent value for his cap hit and most of the crap he gets here is over the top.

Ya, a Selke nominee this season can you believe my audacity. Like debating a toddler. Cheers.

 

[Wiseguys]

Type of player that you take the good with the bad.
It's ok to like a player and still be able to point out there flaws. With some you either love or hate, no in between.

Have a feeling he pots one or two tonight.

I have a feeling he will be floating around playing scared to get hit.

 

[ACC1224]

Traditionally, the Toronto market just has an unusual relationship with finesse based players.

This is the same city that had a problem with Frank Mahovlich during the dynasty years.

I'm old but not that old.

We do like the hard workers though, no doubt there.