Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

What is your limit for a "Cap %" for Nylander


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Niagara Bill

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Oct 11, 2021
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OR the Leafs just replace Bert with a ELC forward.
I can agree, but we gave other players like goalies, dmen that have contracts coming up that will add on.
My point is that people are so stuck on their valuations. Let me rephrase....at what point total would you sign Nylander at over 10mm? 110? 120?.
I would pay him 10+ today if JT was not on the roster. I am always concerned about his occasional lack of focus, his father's mercenary tendencies sneaking in. But he earns his dollars. When going is toughest he is the only Leaf star to skate, make the other team back quickly when the puck gets turned over. Dollar for dollar, worth more than Mitchy, but does need a center that is creative.
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
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Your calculations only work if Nylander stops playing after year 7. Otherwise, you need to asume he'll make money 8th year.

From the next deal point of view/maximazing earning potential, it might be beneficial for him to sign a shorter deal.

The comparison you're making is utterly stupid.

But hey. let's assume your "calculations" are correct and he would not earn a cent in year 8. Does it mean you expect to have 11M in dead cap space by year 8 ?

The thought process of comparing 8 and 7-year deals from an overall earnings standpoint is just so moronic I can't grasp what the hell are you trying to tell.


What happens year 8 ? Nylander with us or not

edit: It would only be $5M plus another 5 he could get on another deal.So only losing $10M for the Leafs privilege? Now I see it. Everyone else maxed out, +- 10M for Nylander is no biggie, he can leave it on the table.

Get serious. Nylander will be 36 in Year 8, so making $9-$11 million on a new deal after his 7 year contract with Team X expires would be low on the probability scale. Unless you think he’s hitting his prime then.

What’s Phil Kessel signing for this summer? He’s 36.
 

LeafalCrusader

Registered User
Oct 3, 2013
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Winnipeg
I wouldn't be expecting Nylander to be signing long term either.


"Treliving had no interest in going extra-long term with Matthews. He’ll tell you — as he’s told me in the past — he hates eight-year deals."

According to the article, Matthews wanted three years. The Leafs were pushing for five or six. They met halfway at four.

Looking at his record in Calgary, it looks like Treliving prefers to re-sign his free agents to six year deals.

On the one hand, it minimizes the chances of getting stuck with a bad contract. On the other hand, it eliminates the opportunity for windfall gains. The team is going to be caught in a vicious cycle of setting the league standard for free agents every few years.

Does any other NHL team operate like this?

Do any other players operate like this? I can understand the need for the team to be progressive. But why does it always seem to come at the chances of them winning a Stanley Cup?

And why does it always have to be the Leafs leading the charge?
Did he hate 8 year deals before or after he signed Huberdeau and Weager for 8 year deals and Kadri for 7 last summer.
 

notDatsyuk

Registered User
Jul 20, 2018
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I'm all for both of them having killer years. Sort out everything else later. Just bring me back some hockey


If willy has 100+ point season, you wouldn't go past 10?
If Willy can't hit 100 points playing with a slow 3C and an assortment of nobodies on left wing, what makes you think he could with better players?
 

IPS

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Sep 28, 2017
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If Willy can't hit 100 points playing with a slow 3C and an assortment of nobodies on left wing, what makes you think he could with better players?
I wish Domi could actually play center somewhat decent to give Willy another decent option to play with. Whatever "chemistry" he had with JT seems to be getting worse and worse.
 

LeafParade

Registered User
Jun 27, 2019
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I wish Domi could actually play center somewhat decent to give Willy another decent option to play with. Whatever "chemistry" he had with JT seems to be getting worse and worse.

Willy just needs a good winger who can get up and down the ice, and a C who will cover up the defensive end. Give him Knies and Holmberg and let him cook.

The Nylander/Tavares experiment needs to end.
Marner with Tavares, Domi with Matthews.
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
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I wish Domi could actually play center somewhat decent to give Willy another decent option to play with. Whatever "chemistry" he had with JT seems to be getting worse and worse.

Nylander is his own engine. JT is mostly benefiting by WN at this point because the zone entries. He just needs to be the right areas
 

Notsince67

Papi and the Lamplighters
Apr 27, 2018
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I can agree, but we gave other players like goalies, dmen that have contracts coming up that will add on.

I would pay him 10+ today if JT was not on the roster. I am always concerned about his occasional lack of focus, his father's mercenary tendencies sneaking in. But he earns his dollars. When going is toughest he is the only Leaf star to skate, make the other team back quickly when the puck gets turned over. Dollar for dollar, worth more than Mitchy, but does need a center that is creative.
So that I understand...under no circumstances would you decide to sign Nylander for over 10mm while JT is on the team...even if he wracked up 110, 120 or 130 pts?
Just a hypothetical thought experiment.

If Willy can't hit 100 points playing with a slow 3C and an assortment of nobodies on left wing, what makes you think he could with better players?
It isn't the point. I want to understand the valuation method or whether it is a viscerally emotional take. If he broke out and had a career year, what would it take?
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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Willy just needs a good winger who can get up and down the ice, and a C who will cover up the defensive end. Give him Knies and Holmberg and let him cook.

The Nylander/Tavares experiment needs to end.
Marner with Tavares, Domi with Matthews.
He can do that but that's not really optimizing the lineup's strengths at all.

Giving Nylander a center with good playmaking skills who can actually play at his pace and I believe you'll get a lot more value out of the lineup using Tavares on the 3rd line with a couple of lesser skilled types.

Domi I understand is a pretty good passer but his defensive game playing center is terrible from what I've heard.
 
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TMLBlueandWhite

Toxic Marner Is Toxic
Feb 2, 2023
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Did he hate 8 year deals before or after he signed Huberdeau and Weager for 8 year deals and Kadri for 7 last summer.

Even Treliving knows when he's hooped.

Nylander doesn't have Treliving's feet to the fire like they were in Calgary. His M-NTC doesn't give him the leverage. Which means Treliving needs to either get this guy signed soon or trade him.

The Leafs can't afford to be the team constantly re-setting the market on salaries.
 
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AvroArrow

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Jun 10, 2011
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Get serious. Nylander will be 36 in Year 8, so making $9-$11 million on a new deal after his 7 year contract with Team X expires would be low on the probability scale. Unless you think he’s hitting his prime then.

What’s Phil Kessel signing for this summer? He’s 36.
8x8 Obviously, according to the main boards logic at least
 

Gilmour1996

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Oct 16, 2022
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Willy just needs a good winger who can get up and down the ice, and a C who will cover up the defensive end. Give him Knies and Holmberg and let him cook.
Or to grow some balls and apply himself to improve the defensive aspects that are missing from his game and not rely on linemates to do all that.

Offense: 10M player
Defense: league minimum player
 

Arzak

Registered User
Mar 27, 2019
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Get serious. Nylander will be 36 in Year 8, so making $9-$11 million on a new deal after his 7 year contract with Team X expires would be low on the probability scale. Unless you think he’s hitting his prime then.

What’s Phil Kessel signing for this summer? He’s 36.

I never said he'll get 11 per in his 8th year (playing on a new contract), but considering cap raise 5M I actually mentioned is not out of the question.

Get serious. Why are you pretending I said he'll get 11M on his next contract?


Again you want him to be a Leaf for 8 years but at the same time you're expecting he'll be worth $0M even with cap rising for 8 years at the end of it.
 

Trapper

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Nov 21, 2013
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My point is that people are so stuck on their valuations. Let me rephrase....at what point total would you sign Nylander at over 10mm? 110? 120?.
It all depends what you are paying others. You already have 2 forwards that will be making over 12. Can’t see Marner taking less than that. In a cap world you have to pick and choose. That’s just the way it is. You have 20 other guys to pay. You can pay the rest garbage and struggle, or balance and have the best chance.
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
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I never said he'll get 11 per in his 8th year (playing on a new contract), but considering cap raise 5M I actually mentioned is not out of the question.

Get serious. Why are you pretending I said he'll get 11M on his next contract?


Again you want him to be a Leaf for 8 years but at the same time you're expecting he'll be worth $0M even with cap rising for 8 years at the end of it.

I simply created a comparison of AAV’s vs 7 and 8 year terms Toronto can offer vs what other teams can offer to illustrate the absolute dollar amount Toronto can offer is extremely competitive.

Whatever Nylander gets on a shorter deal from another team at 7 years would be balanced out by the fact that he’s not going to be making prime aged money at 36 on a renewal to cover off a Year 8.

Pretty straight forward concepts and no reason for you to get short.
 

Niagara Bill

Registered User
Oct 11, 2021
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So that I understand...under no circumstances would you decide to sign Nylander for over 10mm while JT is on the team...even if he wracked up 110, 120 or 130 pts?
Just a hypothetical thought experiment.


It isn't the point. I want to understand the valuation method or whether it is a viscerally emotional take. If he broke out and had a career year, what would it take?
I want to win. AM, MM, JT, MR EAT UP SO MUCH of the cap we could never fill in the line up, particularly with all the poor drafting in past 5 years.
If WN was to score 120 points, yes I would pay him 12/12.5...what a great asset he would be. We cannot get rid of AM or MM or JT due to nmc. So Willie is last ns wuhh out nmc.
If he scored 110, I would beg JT to retire.
 

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
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I want to win. AM, MM, JT, MR EAT UP SO MUCH of the cap we could never fill in the line up, particularly with all the poor drafting in past 5 years.
If WN was to score 120 points, yes I would pay him 12/12.5...what a great asset he would be. We cannot get rid of AM or MM or JT due to nmc. So Willie is last ns wuhh out nmc.
If he scored 110, I would beg JT to retire.
Career high 85 points, wants $10+m. Sorry Willie not happening. Let me know who you'd extend with and we will work out a deal. IMO Willie is not somebody you can hitch your cart to and with 3 players making 8 figures already, there is no room for another.
 
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ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
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It all depends what you are paying others. You already have 2 forwards that will be making over 12. Can’t see Marner taking less than that. In a cap world you have to pick and choose. That’s just the way it is. You have 20 other guys to pay. You can pay the rest garbage and struggle, or balance and have the best chance.
Sad thing is that none of our 8 figure forwards are outperforming their contracts. Hell Willie put up as many or more points than two of the three and the third is goal scoring challenged. Most likely never going to win with these guys leading the way.

The right move was to trade Marner before his NMC kicked in. He probably gets you the best return and frees up cap space, which you can then use to pay Willie. Ship has sailed and Willie most likely is now gonzo.
 
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Arzak

Registered User
Mar 27, 2019
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I simply created a comparison of AAV’s vs 7 and 8 year terms Toronto can offer vs what other teams can offer to illustrate the absolute dollar amount Toronto can offer is extremely competitive.

Whatever Nylander gets on a shorter deal from another team at 7 years would be balanced out by the fact that he’s not going to be making prime aged money at 36 on a renewal to cover off a Year 8.

Pretty straight forward concepts and no reason for you to get short.

Try it again. By your own estimate, he'll lose +-$5M in his first 7 years playing for Toronto and additional money in year 8.

No need to be defensive, you omitted reality to suit your narrative which is fine if you're that kind of person. I just pointed out how stupid it is, he is not losing money signing 7 year deal for more AVV now despite your on purpose-misleading post comparing overall earnings over 7 years vs overall earnings over 8 year period.

You can't have it both ways. You wanna claim he'll be worthless in year 8 but at the same time, you're fine with Nylander @ 10M come year 8 if it's in Leafs uniform?
 
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Notsince67

Papi and the Lamplighters
Apr 27, 2018
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It all depends what you are paying others. You already have 2 forwards that will be making over 12. Can’t see Marner taking less than that. In a cap world you have to pick and choose. That’s just the way it is. You have 20 other guys to pay. You can pay the rest garbage and struggle, or balance and have the best chance.
So basically you wouldn't resign a 100+ point player. You keep him for the year and lose him for nothing or you move him at the trade deadline before the playoffs.
Which one?
 

Notsince67

Papi and the Lamplighters
Apr 27, 2018
16,376
11,467
I want to win. AM, MM, JT, MR EAT UP SO MUCH of the cap we could never fill in the line up, particularly with all the poor drafting in past 5 years.
If WN was to score 120 points, yes I would pay him 12/12.5...what a great asset he would be. We cannot get rid of AM or MM or JT due to nmc. So Willie is last ns wuhh out nmc.
If he scored 110, I would beg JT to retire.
Reasonable
 

Hellcat

Registered User
Jul 13, 2022
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What a stupid contract Willie just signed, the Leafs signed him to FAR TOO MUCH!!! He didn't take a home town discount, he's over paid!!! He didn't sign for enough years!!!

... trying to get ahead of the angry mob ... ;)
 

LeafEgo

Registered User
Oct 8, 2021
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I wonder if Willy (or his agent) has considered what might happen if he coordinated a trade to a team where he would slot into a Pasta type role, how that season would go for him, and what offers he may be looking at next summer - first line minutes, guaranteed PP1 time, primary shooter.

Probably a much more lucrative path getting out of the third fiddle spot, where M&M are priority financially and on the ice, and it's not like he's getting the cup potential here that Kessel did with the Pens - after seven years of nothing we're now basically in disarray. Does he just love Toronto that much?
 
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ShaneFalco

Registered User
Jul 15, 2012
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Sad thing is that none of our 8 figure forwards are outperforming their contracts. Hell Willie put up as many or more points than two of the three and the third is goal scoring challenged. Most likely never going to win with these guys leading the way.

The right move was to trade Marner before his NMC kicked in. He probably gets you the best return and frees up cap space, which you can then use to pay Willie. Ship has sailed and Willie most likely is now gonzo.
Thanks Kyle
 
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