Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[Leaf Fans]

Sometime in June Chris Johnston of TSN after he had spoken to Willie wrote that Will wanted 10m per. I believe you have the internet and possibly Google or Bing you should be able to find it using the key search parameters.

Cheers

Do they have the Internet on computers now?

 

[Ciao]

Once bitten, twice shy.

If I'm Brad Treliving, I don't sit by the phone with fading hopes that William Nylander will sign a new contract before reaching free agency. Lewis Gross screwed him over royally on the Johnny Gadreau contract negotiations, and I don't think Treliving would have much of an appetite for a second serving.

Of course, it's not all on the agent. However, Gross is Michael Nylander's business partner. Nylander is a player agent in Gross' agency, Sports Professional Management [SPM].

Michael Nylander himself was never an easy or reputable player to deal with on a business level. The Edmonton Oilers complained bitterly when he reneged on a promise to complete a deal, leaving them high and dry when it was time to sign other players instead: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/oilers-cry-foul-over-nylander-signing-1.662061

Michael Nylander and Lewis Gross were both involved with William Nylander's contract hold-out to the very last minute of the deadline to sign his current deal, and that can't engender much trust either.

Gross is also Rasmus Sandin's agent, and I don't imagine the the Leafs shed a tear over not having to deal with either of them on Sandin's next contrat.

If I'm the Leafs, I want to know if Nylander will sign a new contract soon, which would be Plan "A"; and if not, then to trade him for whatever they can get, which would be a very poor Plan "B". Plan "C" -- getting burned again in free-agency -- would be pretty much unthinkable, even though Nylander's unsigned trade value would be low because the next team will have the very same problems in reaching a contract.

William Nylander is a very good player, but dealing with his contract is a pain in the ass.

 

[hullsy47]

Once bitten, twice shy.

If I'm Brad Treliving, I don't sit by the phone with fading hopes that William Nylander will sign a new contract before reaching free agency. Lewis Gross screwed him over royally on the Johnny Gadreau contract negotiations, and I don't think Treliving would have much of an appetite for a second serving.

Of course, it's not all on the agent. However, Gross is Michael Nylander's business partner. Nylander is a player agent in Gross' agency, Sports Professional Management [SPM].

Michael Nylander himself was never an easy or reputable player to deal with on a business level. The Edmonton Oilers complained bitterly when he reneged on a promise to complete a deal, leaving them high and dry when it was time to sign other players instead: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/oilers-cry-foul-over-nylander-signing-1.662061

Michael Nylander and Lewis Gross were both involved with William Nylander's contract hold-out to the very last minute of the deadline to sign his current deal, and that can't engender much trust either.

Gross is also Rasmus Sandin's agent, and I don't imagine the the Leafs shed a tear over not having to deal with either of them on Sandin's next contrat.

If I'm the Leafs, I want to know if Nylander will sign a new contract soon, which would be Plan "A"; and if not, then to trade him for whatever they can get, which would be a very poor Plan "B". Plan "C" -- getting burned again in free-agency -- would be pretty much unthinkable, even though Nylander's unsigned trade value would be low because the next team will have the very same problems in reaching a contract.

William Nylander is a very good player, but dealing with his contract is a pain in the ass.

Until Nylander hears elliotte freidman or LeBrun say the leafs are open to offers for willy he won't budge
I suspect treliving wants this done soon
But I disagree the leafs will lose every deal for willy
There's a deal to be made .he's a good player

 

[ULF_55]

Once bitten, twice shy.

If I'm Brad Treliving, I don't sit by the phone with fading hopes that William Nylander will sign a new contract before reaching free agency. Lewis Gross screwed him over royally on the Johnny Gadreau contract negotiations, and I don't think Treliving would have much of an appetite for a second serving.

Of course, it's not all on the agent. However, Gross is Michael Nylander's business partner. Nylander is a player agent in Gross' agency, Sports Professional Management [SPM].

Michael Nylander himself was never an easy or reputable player to deal with on a business level. The Edmonton Oilers complained bitterly when he reneged on a promise to complete a deal, leaving them high and dry when it was time to sign other players instead: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/oilers-cry-foul-over-nylander-signing-1.662061

Michael Nylander and Lewis Gross were both involved with William Nylander's contract hold-out to the very last minute of the deadline to sign his current deal, and that can't engender much trust either.

Gross is also Rasmus Sandin's agent, and I don't imagine the the Leafs shed a tear over not having to deal with either of them on Sandin's next contrat.

If I'm the Leafs, I want to know if Nylander will sign a new contract soon, which would be Plan "A"; and if not, then to trade him for whatever they can get, which would be a very poor Plan "B". Plan "C" -- getting burned again in free-agency -- would be pretty much unthinkable, even though Nylander's unsigned trade value would be low because the next team will have the very same problems in reaching a contract.

William Nylander is a very good player, but dealing with his contract is a pain in the ass.

Gaudreau on leaving Calgary: 'It was best for us not to go back'

The atmosphere at Columbus Blue Jackets games played a big role in convincing Johnny Gaudreau to make the Ohio capital his new hockey home.

www.sportsnet.ca

Johnny Gaudreau hinted at wanting to play closer to his native New Jersey in explaining his decision to leave the Calgary Flames and sign with the Columbus Blue Jackets on Thursday, but was generally vague when asked why he didn't return to Alberta.

“I’ve always wanted to play a little bit closer," Gaudreau said at a press conference after signing a seven-year, $68.25-millon deal with the Blue Jackets.

"I grew up here, not in Columbus, but on the East Coast. It’s somewhere I always wanted to play. I was in Calgary for 8-12 years there from when I got drafted to when I started playing. I always dreamed about playing a tad closer to home. It didn’t matter where I was signing.

Maybe Nylander wants to play closer to home and that would be?

Adam Fox also chose not to play in Calgary.

Calgary is a fine small city, but it's not exactly for everyone.

I don't think Nylander's situation is anything like Gaudreau's.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Would really like to see this Nylander deal get done before the season starts.
Media is just going to eat this up and drive controversy otherwise, and it's all we're going to hear during games.

The story goes, and this is the last time I'm going to post this, is that in December Mitch said 9m X 8yrs and he signs right now.
Kyle tells him that he's gone over the budget and can't pay him that but will take another look at things in the summer.
Less than two months later Brian comes to town and has his boy sign a 5yrs times 11.6m contract. To say that Mitch is insulted wouldn't be doing the word justice. Which led to the contentious negotiations, had Mitch and Paul not been lifelong Leafers they might have asked for a trade.

The story actually goes...
Dubas got hired and the first thing he did was talk to Marner's camp. Marner's camp indicated a desire to play out his 3rd season (which is more than understandable given the mistreatment of Lou and Babcock, the way he ended his 2nd season, and the fact that he'd get a chance to play with another good player finally). Marner went on to have one of the best post-ELC pre-signing seasons in cap era history, to add on to his already amazing first two years, and earned a big contract. The media played up how contentious the negotiations were, when it really played out pretty similarly to the rest of the many league-wide negotiations with quality RFAs that offseason, and they got a deal done before training camp. Then some time passes and out of nowhere, an unsubstantiated rumour randomly circulates on HFboards about some supposed 8 year deal years prior, that contradicts everything that was reported at the time and is sometimes 8m, sometimes 8.5m, and sometimes 9m, and it spread like wildfire.

 

[Notsince67]

Would really like to see this Nylander deal get done before the season starts.
Media is just going to eat this up and drive controversy otherwise, and it's all we're going to hear during games.

The story actually goes...
Dubas got hired and the first thing he did was talk to Marner's camp. Marner's camp indicated a desire to play out his 3rd season (which is more than understandable given the mistreatment of Lou and Babcock, the way he ended his 2nd season, and the fact that he'd get a chance to play with another good player finally). Marner went on to have one of the best post-ELC pre-signing seasons in cap era history, to add on to his already amazing first two years, and earned a big contract. The media played up how contentious the negotiations were, when it really played out pretty similarly to the rest of the many league-wide negotiations with quality RFAs that offseason, and they got a deal done before training camp. Then some time passes and out of nowhere, an unsubstantiated rumour randomly circulates on HFboards about some supposed 8 year deal years prior, that contradicts everything that was reported at the time and is sometimes 8m, sometimes 8.5m, and sometimes 9m, and it spread like wildfire.

This isn't remotely true. It was public record that Marner's camp said they would only negotiate until the season began.
If a deal did not get presented by the team, it was on them as a fail.
Now the question is how much did they offer and how much was the shortfall.
You can spin away that no offer was made but it is far from the evidence. Now if you want to be obtuse, you could claim that Marners ask was something ridiculous in excess of 9mm but it makes no logical sense. Marner had a spectacular 2nd half of the season, averaging 1.13ppg but his year end totals were only 69 pts due to 3rd & 4th line assignments and mono. You continue to make this claim but there is zero evidence to back it and no one has ever made that assertion publicly except for you.
Regardless of how you spin it....even I made a case in the 8.5mm range back at that time that I felt was balanced and rational. The team should have made the same conclusion and had they done so, Marner would have taken it for the reasons I outlined in my case. A deal was obtainable and the fact that it didn't happen is 100% Dubas' fail.

 

[TopCheese]

So sick of Nylanders crap. Yea he's an amazing player and I would love to keep him around 9mil but we can all see where this is going. Losing him for nothing should not be an option. If he's not signed in the next week he has to be traded. No player should put themselves above the team. If he really thinks he's worth 10 million he can go make that money in Columbus or San Jose. Good riddance

 

[notDatsyuk]

So sick of Nylanders crap. Yea he's an amazing player and I would love to keep him around 9mil but we can all see where this is going. Losing him for nothing should not be an option. If he's not signed in the next week he has to be traded. No player should put themselves above the team. If he really thinks he's worth 10 million he can go make that money in Columbus or San Jose. Good riddance

Actually the bulk of the crap about Nylander comes from a few posters here who don't like him, and a few media types who need to stir the pot for the sake of clicks.

Neither Willy nor Tre have given any indication that there is a problem.

 

[Gary Nylund]

So sick of Nylanders crap. Yea he's an amazing player and I would love to keep him around 9mil but we can all see where this is going. Losing him for nothing should not be an option. If he's not signed in the next week he has to be traded. No player should put themselves above the team. If he really thinks he's worth 10 million he can go make that money in Columbus or San Jose. Good riddance

What are you referring to?

 

[Dekes For Days]

If a deal did not get presented by the team, it was on them as a fail.
Now the question is how much did they offer and how much was the shortfall.
You can spin away that no offer was made but it is far from the evidence.

I didn't say that no offer was made by the team. I said that Marner indicated a desire to play out the 3rd season, which was widely reported and was fully understandable given the circumstances, and that the supposed offer by Marner that was not reported and is constantly changing and was just randomly claimed long after the fact on HFboards with zero evidence is fake. Signing somebody to a contract is not a unilateral process, and he had every reason to not sign for anything remotely reasonable after his 2nd year - some of which you even pointed out yourself. I think we should stick to discussing contracts; not spreading rumours about imaginary contracts that never existed.

Edited in response to below post, to not move the thread off topic:

You infer then that an offer was made yet that offer wasn't taken.

Actually, you and the person I responded to originally were suggesting that an offer was made and not taken, despite zero evidence of that. In fact, that person I responded to directly contradicts you by claiming the offer was made in December. There's zero consistency with this rumour from person to person, because it's not actually based on anything.

The only thing we really know is that if there was an official offer on either side, it was not taken. Any specifics are not known, and people should not be making and spreading unsupported claims. And for the record, just because somebody is open to having discussions with the team in the offseason, that doesn't mean that they have a desire to sign early. Marner's circumstances basically checks off every possible box for why a player wouldn't want to sign early - many of which you openly acknowledge - and it was reported that he preferred to play out the year.

Instead of going back and forth about some random, unsupported, ever-changing rumour from half a decade ago that came out of nowhere long after the supposed occurrence and that doesn't match any of the actual reported information, let's discuss the actual contracts we have and things we actually know.

 

[Notsince67]

I didn't say that no offer was made by the team. I said that Marner indicated a desire to play out the 3rd season, which was widely reported and was fully understandable given the circumstances, and that the supposed offer by Marner that was not reported and is constantly changing and was just randomly claimed long after the fact on HFboards with zero evidence is fake. Signing somebody to a contract is not a unilateral process, and he had every reason to not sign for anything remotely reasonable after his 2nd year - some of which you even pointed out yourself. I think we should stick to discussing contracts; not spreading rumours about imaginary contracts that never existed.

You infer then that an offer was made yet that offer wasn't taken. They either offered less that 8.5 or more. You have made it a binary possibility. If it was less, then you are being obtuse. If it was more, then you believe Marner was asking for stratospheric money. Or are you saying that the Marner camp refused to consider the offer and lied that they would negotiate until the season began? This is breaking news for me so I'd really like to understand

 

[ULF_55]

This is not a marner contract discussion thread.

Yes, his contract discussion can be referenced, but it should not become the topic of discussion in this thread.

 

[Gilmour1996]

Actually the bulk of the crap about Nylander comes from a few posters here who don't like him, and a few media types who need to stir the pot for the sake of clicks.

Neither Willy nor Tre have given any indication that there is a problem.

Tre is't going to give you his true feelings talking to the media and the other has an agent who IS a problem.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Tre is't going to give you his true feelings talking to the media and the other has an agent who IS a problem.

The agent wasn't necessarily the problem last time, and there has been no indication he will be this time, except by the aforementioned few posters and clickbait addicts.

All we have are rumours and speculation from people who don't know.

 

[Menzinger]

Gross as a potential problem for a Nylander deal gets overstated .

Take for example the Johnny Gaudreau situation last summer. By most accounts him leaving the Flames had little to do with money (it seems Calgary may have even offered a bigger contract), the player simply for personal reasons wanted to leave. Plenty of Gross clients get deals done in timely fashions too, but those don't cause a media reaction

 

[LeafEgo]

Has any player held out like Nylander did last go around? Sticks out like a sore thumb. Sandin wasn't easy. Tread with caution when to comes to Gross.

Let's see what happens with Pinto over the next few weeks.

 

[Stephen]

Gaudreau on leaving Calgary: 'It was best for us not to go back'

The atmosphere at Columbus Blue Jackets games played a big role in convincing Johnny Gaudreau to make the Ohio capital his new hockey home.

www.sportsnet.ca

Maybe Nylander wants to play closer to home and that would be?

Adam Fox also chose not to play in Calgary.

Calgary is a fine small city, but it's not exactly for everyone.

I don't think Nylander's situation is anything like Gaudreau's.

Johnny Gaudreau seems like a bit of a dope in his Calgary exodus. Probably tried to go the east coast on the premise of a homecoming but got stranded in Columbus after Philly or Jersey fell through. Columbus which is nowhere on the east coast, is a smaller city like Calgary and they were a terrible team last year to top it off. And now they have Babcock.

 

[ULF_55]

Has any player held out like Nylander did last go around? Sticks out like a sore thumb. Sandin wasn't easy. Tread with caution when to comes to Gross.

Let's see what happens with Pinto over the next few weeks.

Nylander did not hold out.

He didn't have a contract.
But your idea makes a tonne of sense.
Have players without contracts play for you so they don't count against the Cap, with a wink-wink, nudge-nudge we'll make it worth your while.

Yashin held out, he was under contract.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Has any player held out like Nylander did last go around? Sticks out like a sore thumb. Sandin wasn't easy. Tread with caution when to comes to Gross.

Let's see what happens with Pinto over the next few weeks.

How much of that impasse was Nylander/Gross and how much was Dubas/Shanahan? Even with the delay Willy was comparitively underpaid.

 

[ULF_55]

How much of that impasse was Nylander/Gross and how much was Dubas/Shanahan? Even with the delay Willy was comparitively underpaid.

Nylander is in a completely different snack bracket than probably 99% of us on the board, so living in Toronto isn't a big deal.

But the buying power in other cities compared to Toronto ... for Toronto prices you could get a great estate in Calgary, and a housekeeper thrown in.

Bearspaw Real Estate in Calgary | Bearspaw Homes & Villas for Sale

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45 minutes away from me, and very opposite side of city ... I'm SE this is NE, but probably about 30 minutes from Saddledome.

 

[LeafEgo]

How much of that impasse was Nylander/Gross and how much was Dubas/Shanahan? Even with the delay Willy was comparitively underpaid.

Its a great point. I'm quite comfortable blaming Dubie. It's the unusual variable for both Wille and Sandin.

But from afar the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. I dont necessarily predict trouble with Nylander/Gross, but don't be suprised if there is.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Nylander is in a completely different snack bracket than probably 99% of us on the board, so living in Toronto isn't a big deal.

But the buying power in other cities compared to Toronto ... for Toronto prices you could get a great estate in Calgary, and a housekeeper thrown in.

Bearspaw Real Estate in Calgary | Bearspaw Homes & Villas for Sale

Looking for information about Bearspaw Calgary Real Estate? Kirby Cox & Associates specialize in Northwest Calgary Real Estate and has years of experience selling Acreage properties. Call us for a consultation!

www.kirbycox.com

45 minutes away from me, and very opposite side of city ... I'm SE this is NE, but probably about 30 minutes from Saddledome.

I completely agree, and Calgary is a great city, but I'm not sure what your post has to do with mine.

 

[ULF_55]

But from afar the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. I dont necessarily predict trouble with Nylander/Gross, but don't be suprised if there is.

So you're suggesting he'll sign a contract he'll outperform whereas other contracts won't meet that evaluation.

Your position paints an extremely positive outcome for Nylander's next contract.

Not so much for other contracts.

 

[LeafEgo]

So you're suggesting he'll sign a contract he'll outperform whereas other contracts won't meet that evaluation.

Your position paints an extremely positive outcome for Nylander's next contract.

Not so much for other contracts.

I didn't quite understand this post, might be my fault. I'm saying that given the lack of information we have, and the difficulties we have had with Gross in the past, don't be suprised if we have difficulties again going forward.

Let's watch the Pinto situation play out. Sens have been good at signing players without drama, and Pinto isn't a star - closer to a Sandin. If that goes badly we have an established pattern and I'd be concerned about what lies ahead with Willy.

 

[Notsince67]

I didn't say that no offer was made by the team. I said that Marner indicated a desire to play out the 3rd season, which was widely reported and was fully understandable given the circumstances, and that the supposed offer by Marner that was not reported and is constantly changing and was just randomly claimed long after the fact on HFboards with zero evidence is fake. Signing somebody to a contract is not a unilateral process, and he had every reason to not sign for anything remotely reasonable after his 2nd year - some of which you even pointed out yourself. I think we should stick to discussing contracts; not spreading rumours about imaginary contracts that never existed.

Edited in response to below post, to not move the thread off topic:

Actually, you and the person I responded to originally were suggesting that an offer was made and not taken, despite zero evidence of that. In fact, that person I responded to directly contradicts you by claiming the offer was made in December. There's zero consistency with this rumour from person to person, because it's not actually based on anything.

The only thing we really know is that if there was an official offer on either side, it was not taken. Any specifics are not known, and people should not be making and spreading unsupported claims. And for the record, just because somebody is open to having discussions with the team in the offseason, that doesn't mean that they have a desire to sign early. Marner's circumstances basically checks off every possible box for why a player wouldn't want to sign early - many of which you openly acknowledge - and it was reported that he preferred to play out the year.

Instead of going back and forth about some random, unsupported, ever-changing rumour from half a decade ago that came out of nowhere long after the supposed occurrence and that doesn't match any of the actual reported information, let's discuss the actual contracts we have and things we actually know.

There is zero evidence then than Nylander wants in excess of 10 by your criteria. There is in fact more compelling evidence to suggest the team missed an opportunity to sign Mitch for much lower than he did a year later. It's clear that had 8.5mm been presented, there is a high likelihood it would have been accepted. If it wasn't, Marners side looks terrible. If it was not, Dubas side looks terrible. They both cannot look good here. Hand waiving this missed opportunity fails to look at the situation rationally. I am far more inclined to believe an 8.5mm offer would have been accepted.
Someone failed here. You can't pretend they didnt.